Most Useless Commander?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on July 30, 2016, 5:16 p.m. by Livelinkon
What Commander do you think is so useless that it should never be used? Explain why you feel it is so bad.
Raging_Squiggle says... #2
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy is pretty bad for a commander.
July 31, 2016 5:18 p.m.
PepsiAddicted says... #4
mishra is sweet. i still say Rashka the Slayer. or maybe General Jarkeld
July 31, 2016 5:35 p.m.
@ Raging_Squiggle Korlash, Heir to Blackblade may not be good but I've seen a beast Baru, Fist of Krosa that uses Grandeur.
Baru, Grandeur of Krosa
Commander / EDH
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July 31, 2016 5:51 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #6
I never said Korlash was bad. I said he's a good voltron commander with built in regen.
July 31, 2016 5:56 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #7
Circu is nice because you get to actually copypasta blue/black staples and synergize with your commander when you exile your own deck to stop other player ms from casting those staples.
July 31, 2016 5:59 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #8
DarkLaw, so my argument is this: every multicolored legend has at least one use, which is allowing their deck to be multicolored. This is what makes them strictly not useless.
July 31, 2016 6:02 p.m.
Srry Raging_Squiggle yours was indeed the post below the one I was looking at. Comment #55 was meant for SamCre1993
July 31, 2016 6:04 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #10
If we are taking deck out of the picture, then wouldn't Hakkon be the worst commander, specifically because he can't be cast?
July 31, 2016 8:11 p.m.
Personally, I think Munda, Ambush Leader is one of the worst commanders there is. Worst color pair, if you build into his ability he guarantees that you'll never draw a fifth land, and if you don't build into him he's basically a slightly cheaper vanilla legend.
There are also some abysmal ones like Soraya the Falconer or Shimatsu the Bloodcloaked. And according to MagicalHacker's reasoning Myojin of Cleansing Fire is pretty terrible as well.
August 1, 2016 4:37 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #12
@Dredge4life: Command Beacon, yo.
Don't know why you'd want to, though.
August 1, 2016 10:01 a.m.
MagicalHacker You said "deck" again.
Dredge4life No, because it has some synergies, i.e. Command Beacon, Nameless Inversion)(or other knight cards), and tutors. Deck strategies are directly promoted by the commander, unlike the actual contents of the deck.
August 1, 2016 10:11 a.m.
Dredge4life says... #14
If we are truly discounting the deck, then Command Beacon is irrelevant, and the worst commanders are Phage the Untouchable, and Hakkon are the worst.
August 1, 2016 11:18 a.m.
Dredge4life Following your argument, I could simply state "cards which can be used to get Haakon into play and take advantage of his abilities", and your argument no longer works. I prefer to think of it this way, though:
Themes and cards which the commander supports are directly related to and suggested by the commander you choose. In contrast, your commander is indirectly related to what cards you can and should run in your deck, as the themes the commander promotes and the color identity of the commander link them together, rather than themselves being directly linked. And commander color identity would be irrelevant if it had no impact on what cards you include in your deck. Therefore, by saying that the deck is irrelevant, so is the color identity. However, as the themes promoted by your commander are independent from your deck (for instance, if your opponent generously Donates you a Command Beacon while Haakon is in the command zone), this consideration is still relevant.
TLDR; there is none, it's difficult to explain simply.
August 1, 2016 11:40 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #16
DarkLaw, not to be condescending or anything, but... Of course? That's the obvious thing that "useful" is referring to. Unless, you interpreted the question to be "Which commander is the least useful to play a game with while never playing a card from the other 99 cards in the deck?", in which case, every commander except Oloro, Ageless Ascetic is tied for least useful.
August 1, 2016 12:21 p.m.
August 1, 2016 12:38 p.m.
MagicalHacker Not to sound condescending or anything, but... Do you read? If so, read my essay to Dredge4life about it.
August 1, 2016 1:07 p.m.
DarkLaw, either I don't understand what you say, you are contradicting yourself or you explained yourself badly.
You both said:
"The guy who posted this stated exactly "commander". Therefore, you should ignore the deck."
And:
"your commander is indirectly related to what cards you can and should run in your deck"
What?
I must agree with MagicalHacker, that Myojin of Infinite Rage is the absolute worst commander. If we ONLY look at the card itself, it's a 7/4 for 10 mana. If we look at the deck you can build around it, you can only build a mono-red deck, which is the worst commander color.
Haakan might be a second, since he himself is nearly unplayable, but at least you can make a black deck.
August 1, 2016 3:01 p.m.
DarkLaw, either I don't understand what you say, you are contradicting yourself or you explained yourself badly.
You both said:
"The guy who posted this stated exactly "commander". Therefore, you should ignore the deck."
And:
"your commander is indirectly related to what cards you can and should run in your deck"
What?
I must agree with MagicalHacker, that Myojin of Infinite Rage is the absolute worst commander. If we ONLY look at the card itself, it's a 7/4 for 10 mana. If we look at the deck you can build around it, you can only build a mono-red deck, which is the worst commander color.
Haakan might be a second, since he himself is nearly unplayable, but at least you can make a black deck.
August 1, 2016 3:01 p.m.
The_Raven No, you just don't understand what I'm getting at. When someone asks me to judge a commander (in a vacuum, since he mentioned nothing else), I only evaluate the strength of the card and the strength of the themes it promotes. The actual deck itself (and whether it incorporates those themes) is something completely different. You could build a (worse) vintage deck that doesn't even care about the commander or a deck that does nothing and is headed by Oloro, but it doesn't change how good the commander is in of itself. And because the deck is irrelevant when evaluating a commander, so too is the color identity of the commander, which only affects the construction of the deck.
August 1, 2016 3:41 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #22
DarkLaw, wait, how is choosing to NOT take all aspects or ramifications of commanders into account actually better?
No one wins without the 99, whose color identity is dictated by the commander. That is undeniably one of the many uses of a commander.
August 1, 2016 6:25 p.m.
MagicalHacker Tbf even if I agreed at looking at color identity, I would say that Myojin is more useful than those countless vanillas from legends because, although the color are hardly easy to work with, it actually inspires a deck theme/strategy, and is therefore more likely to be used. Ignoring competitiveness (because that isn't all that commander is about), which commander would you rather run: Lady Orca or Myojin? I'd definitely take Myojin.
The main reason why the color-identity-counting-towards-the-usefulness-of-a-commander argument is such a Logic Knot is because language is. Being able to run more cards is definitely a commander benefit. But a deck is clearly otherwise independent from the commander. The deck does not change the commander's usefulness, and vice versa. So, then, it is certainly okay to argue that color identity matters, but then it is arguable whether or not the cards in the deck matters, and therefore whether or not color identity matters. Anyway, I am now officially tired of delving into the language of this discussion, and I just want to go back to hating cards from legends. Apart from Ragnar. Ragnar has a cool beard.
August 1, 2016 7:10 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #24
DarkLaw, I'd choose Lady Orca because I'd have more fun with a rakdos deck with an uncastable commander than a mono-red deck with a more uncastable commander since I'd be able to hold my own more easily in the game with better draw, better ramp, tutors, more board wipes, better spot removal, pillow fort, and more combos.
I agree, I don't want to keep arguing either, but I'd prefer even less to concede to the idea that commander usefulness is subjective after I've shown that there is a clear, objectively most useless commander. I don't want to be a jerk, I just think debates should come to a resolution where there is a clear winning side when possible, and I think this is one of those cases.
August 1, 2016 8:21 p.m.
MagicalHacker Do you only play EDH super competitively? That would explain your reasoning for everything. I imagine that many people would be happy to try a Myojin deck, myself included. If you would honestly prefer an otherwise useless commander, then I'll never get through to you. That's disappointing.
Hmm... I'd argue that commander's like Lady Orca are in fact more useless. Does Lady Orca inspire you to build a deck around it? Not exactly. It's just worse than so many other Rakdos commanders. Myojin, on the other hand, is pretty unique.
You may be confusing "useful" and "competitive".
August 2, 2016 7:41 a.m.
fadelightningmm says... #26
@MagicalHacker I'm pretty sure the op was asking for an opinion not a definitive answer. So my answer of anthusa isn't wrong it's just not up to your measure. As a mono green player I wouldn't even put anthusa in the 99 let alone build around her
August 2, 2016 9:07 a.m.
I would like to submit the Brothers Yamazaki. Even if their text says two can be on the field, it doesn't negate the singleton rule of deck construction. So you get a 2/1 Bushido 1 for 3 mana. Sure it's a cheap commander but it's not adding much to your deck.
August 3, 2016 11:33 a.m.
Brothers Yamazaki works with Blade of Selves in a three player game. Which is kinda cute.
August 3, 2016 12:01 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #29
DarkLaw, not totally, but there are people who have cEDH decks, so the competitive scene affects the way I see deck building. When you say you would be interested to build around MoIR, what does that mean? How does one build around him? How does he have more use than a cheaper creature that is also vanilla? Im generally interested! Also, there are more mono-red commanders better than MoIR than there are rakdos generals better than Orca. In terms of inspirability, even the art or the flavor or even the name can inspire a build. Lady Orca could be the general of a deck that is limited to only cards where the art depicts females more than males (except basics).
fadelightningmm, as with any question, if you construct a means to answer the question definitively, and those means are better than any other means suggested, then there could be an answer that is objectively best. Anthoussa can be used to get value out of cards than animate lands, cards that care about animated lands, and cards that can trigger heroic. That's without even mentioning how she can be used to be a legal commander for a powerful color identity, she can be used as a chump blocker on turn 5 or later, and she can be used to send signals to opponents to disguise a powerful deck. MoIR can do none of those things.
The question that comes up is this: is a commander's usefulness objectively defined or subjectively defined?
I believe the answer is subjective, because a use for anything isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact. Can a paint brush be used to calm a horse? If you find a horse calmed by the paint brush, then yes. Can a paint brush be used to butcher a horse? Unless you can find a way to butcher a horse with a paint brush, no. Those particular scenarios seem silly, but they illustrate that all you need to find if an object has a particular use is find when that object fulfilled that use.
August 3, 2016 1:56 p.m.
Deruvid, Yeah, no. I've seen working Brothers Yamazaki decks. There are actually enough copy effects in red to keep him active for a decent portion of the game.
August 3, 2016 1:57 p.m.
MagicalHacker When I see Myojin's ability, I know that it only works with Command Beacon, and that, aside from Gamble, there are no tutors in red. Those are auto includes. The theme of the deck is going to be mass land destruction. Obviously, your deck is going to be pretty weak on it's own, so you'll have to play politics. Detritivore and other repeatable forms of land destruction shows that you can kill lands, so some people might want to get on your good side.
You'll want to play a lot of incremental card advantage. Outpost Siege is a good example, but even cards like Blasphemous Act and the many wheel effects in red could help you. In this case, and for ramp, artifacts are your friends. Mana doublers are great in mono-red.
Once you have enough mana, you want to take your opponents off it. Firstly, you'll want to kill all opposing artifacts with something like Shattering Spree or Vandalblast. Bust, Decree of Annihilation, Devastation, Impending Disaster, and probably Ruination are all good ways to kill all lands afterwards. You can use all of your artifact mana or That Which Was Taken to keep mana around, and then you kill them with some creatures. Greater Gargadon and Detritivore are awesome at this for obvious reasons. You can protect your spells with Hydroblast, Overmaster, Red Elemental Blast, etc.
Where does the commander fit into this? Well, hopefully you should only ever cast it with Command Beacon. Then, it functions as a decent indestructible threat after you take out everyone's mana, or could do so itself.
Obviously, Myojin is horrible, but saying it is the most useless commander is probably a stretch. Tbf, though, I probably did a crappy job explaining it, considering I've never played it before. I pretty much just did a little research, like with every good first-time look at a commander.
August 3, 2016 5:56 p.m.
Expedition Map is a land tutor every color has access to.
August 3, 2016 10:11 p.m.
Yes. I didn't think about that, I only remembered Tolaria West.
August 4, 2016 2:23 a.m.
sonnet666, but is having two 4/3 Bushido 1 really all that useful in commander? Even when you get his ability to trigger, it's not a highly useful commander.
DarkLaw says... #1
You can do Command Beacon and other shennannigans. It isn't terrible. I mean, Circu, Dimir Lobotomist is really bad. Short of looping infinite spells (in which case you win anyway), he's pretty much just a 2/3 for 4. I can't see people getting enough off him naturally to make a difference.
July 31, 2016 5:04 p.m.