March 9th bans - WTF RC? Flash not banned?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on March 9, 2020, 10:45 a.m. by ToffMcSoft
March 9th bans came out. No changes to Commander. RC letting the community down once again.
Flash lives on!
And speaking of the update:
Golos, Tireless Pilgrim Banned in Brawl
Oko, Thief of Crowns, Once Upon a Time, Veil of Summer banned in Historic. Field of the Dead now legal in historic.
Underworld Breach banned in legacy
Once Upon a Time banned in Modern.
Lol at Oko getting banned somewhere else. Pretty sour about the once upon a time bans, rip that purchase.
March 9, 2020 10:49 a.m.
Everyone go grab their anti-etb tech. Inverter is here to stay.
March 9, 2020 12:13 p.m.
Nemesis Id didn't actually buy any but wound up trading for 6 of them somehow. Now I have 5 I can't use (1 is in a brawl deck). It kinda messed up my Modern Infect deck, any help would be appreciated.
March 9, 2020 12:53 p.m.
Flash should definitely get a ban for edh, but even with the boost Hulk combos got with the addition of Fishassa those concepts still have trouble performing consistently against Inception based concepts. Flash combo decks that simply replaced a wincon like Lab Man with Fishassa did nothing to improve and have the same extreme difficulty beating strategies designed to exile win cons in decks with only one or two. Flash decks that added Fishassa to supplement their number of win cons tended to further decrease card slot efficiency in order to increase combo density which ultimately makes them slightly less efficient and effective at actually employing a combo line that results in a win, an awkward consequence to say the least. The one deck that actually improved significantly lately that utilizes Flash combos was Najeela (which was already the best non Inception concept matchup into Inception style decks) as the 2 Flash combos now being run in that deck as the back up win conditions are relatively compact and card slot efficient (at least as far as Flash combos go). The addition of Faeburrow and Fishassa Flash Hulk combos really make that deck pop at the moment providing solid instant speed or single turn wins to supplement the primary creature combat, aggressively grindy mid range style.
March 9, 2020 12:55 p.m.
The RC has never been fast about bans unless it affected the entire range of the meta why is anyone surprised they are going to let this shake out and remember EDH is non competitive so they do not rely on or even care about a bunch of tournament data that focuses on competitive game play.
Hey Oko, once upon a time and Veil of summer are still legal in edh. I use Veil in a deck and it help me win a game this last Friday
March 9, 2020 1:53 p.m. Edited.
Megalomania says... #8
jaymc1130 I agree with Fish Hulk leaving a lot to be desired in terms of slot-efficiency but the lines are much cleaner with the addition of TO. One can simply add it to a Glory’s Rise list (like I did) to make it a lot more resilient against Extract effects. It can now win with Labman or Oracle by launching itself from the Breakfast or Flash Hulk lines or by just using TO and Consult. The deck no longer has the “single point of weakness” which you were using Extract effects against.
March 9, 2020 5:28 p.m.
@ Megalomania No doubt, Fishy definitely improved Flash Hulk combos over all in the larger picture of the metascape. And decks that make correct adjustments adding TO into the list while leaning it out to cull some of the unneeded chaff are going to enjoy the increase in performance. The single point of weakness for most Flash combo style decks is essentially gone at this point in time (provided people play in a meta that requires this consideration at the highest level of competitiveness and that the decks are constructed properly) and that's helped out the performance of Flash Hulk decks a little bit. Unfortunately, it hasn't been enough of an increase in performance to actually dislodge the dominance of Inception based strategies as the Inception concept was already designed to handle decks with one or two critical points of failure with extreme ease. Flash Hulk basically jumped back up in powerlevel to be about on par with Doomsday Zur or similar decks that were already running a pair of critical failure points within a 10 or so card slot devoted combo package, a huge improvement from being a completely dead concept in competitive terms, but not such a great increase in performance when considering Inception deck win rates are still often double that of everything else in the format.
The best thing about TO for Flash Hulk combos is how much more card slot efficient a list can be. Paring down to needing just 8 total cards to employ 2 combo win lines from the same starting point is so much better than needing that same number of cards (or often more) for a single combo win line. It's a big reason why Najeela got a lot better as it can now employ a Flash Hulk package of it's own effectively without sacrificing the deck's ability to be relevant against Inception style strategies by already consisting of a primary game plan of creature beats as the win condition.
March 9, 2020 6:14 p.m. Edited.
B&R announcements for Commander are not inline with other formats. You can expect something to be posted by the RC the week after prerelease per usual, but I wouldn't necessarily get your hopes up to be completely honest.
March 10, 2020 12:09 p.m.
While people wanting flash to be banned soon don't hold your breath
https://articles.starcitygames.com/premium/menerys-mailbag-ask-me-anything/
"If Flash (or any other card) were to be banned, it would be because the RC considers its presence detrimental to the format, in line with our philosophy document. Your question about the RC taking cEDH into consideration is really asking if the RC gives cEDH a disproportionate amount of consideration, given the community’s comparatively small numbers (although we’ll concede to it being extremely vocal). The answer that you’re not going to like is no, we don’t offer you more consideration than your numbers would otherwise indicate.
I firmly reject the notion that we haven’t done anything about it. We have engaged with cEDH community leaders since late last year. They continue to advise us, and some of their advice may have changed over time. As I said, this is not a simple discussion, unless “just do what a micro-portion of the player base wants” is simple. There are solid arguments that banning Flash is good for everyone and there are solid arguments that it’s not a good idea at all. With this discussion in particular, there are more concerns than just the game play ones. One of the often-expressed anxieties is that of capitulation. If we ban a card that impacts only a small number of players, what will those players ask for next? Precedent can be a dangerous thing.
As with many things, the issue is well more complicated than anyone who engages in polemics might assert. The entirety of the issue is front and center in the minds of everyone on the RC and CAG. It likely will be at least until the next update."
MagicalHacker says... #2
That update came from WotC, not the RC.
It's like getting mad about not hearing from your Geography teacher regarding what you need to know for your Psychology exam.
March 9, 2020 10:47 a.m. Edited.