K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on Aug. 3, 2019, 11:24 p.m. by TypicalTimmy

Great, now Phyrexian Obliterator costs .

I can't tell if I am excited, dumbfounded, or just insulted that Wizard's would stoop so low as to print something this insanely and entirely broken. Thoughts?

Chhris says... #2

yep thanks i hate it

August 4, 2019 12:35 a.m.

T1: Sol Ring
T2: K'rrik
T3: Vilis, Broker of Blood , all my spells are free and cantrip.

August 4, 2019 1:05 a.m.

DrukenReaps says... #4

It costs 8 life... Play things that stop people from paying life. There is a white angel and there are ways to make life totals not change. You can also play things that double life lost. Actually only one of those I can think of is Wound Reflection but it will definitely make them think twice before paying 16 life for obliterator. You might also consider running some low to the ground creatures to put pressure on early. Ninjas are good at that. This is far from the first 'broken' commander wizards has printed and far from the last one they will print.

August 4, 2019 1:06 a.m.

Demarge says... #5

hmm I do admit any smart table will now send literally everything to the krrik player due to the "attack the ad naus player" rule

August 4, 2019 2:43 a.m.

dingusdingo says... #6

Oh , would you ook at that , doomsday for mana

On a more serious note, this guy is cool but not superb. He doesn't provide card draw or tutor, and a lot of card draw/tutor in black takes your life. On top of that, many cards you will want to run include colorless mana, like Night's Whisper or Demonic Tutor . Further staple mono black EDH cards like Dark Confidant Cabal Ritual Yawgmoth's Will aren't going to get reductions either.

Yeah you can get a Phyrexian Obliterator by paying 8 life, but its just a beater it can be removed a million ways. This guy has serious combo applications but the pieces just aren't there. When black gets better draw I'll build an Aetherflux Reservoir version of this deck though.

August 4, 2019 3:43 a.m.

"When black gets better draw"

Did I just read this string of words?

Why would you make me read this string of words? Yawgmoth's Bargain is banned. As is Griselbrand . You're not going to get better draw power in black than Necropotence without it being banned. I'm not sure why you'd need it though, Necro is quite possibly the best draw card ever printed.

August 4, 2019 4:51 a.m.

Dango says... #8

I think a lot of people are neglecting to understand that his ability doesn't make black mana costs "free". Life is a huge resource in EDH, but anyone who sits down at a table with a K'rrik player should know to pressure his life total. I've seen a lot of Doomsday piles with him so far, but there's always going to be a certain threshold where the player will end up killing himself if he goes through with the combo. All of the Doomsday decks I've seen have a variety of combo packages but that doesn't feel at all modular. If you're playing those decks, you're more or less setting your starting life total to 23, maximum.

August 4, 2019 2:09 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #9

Turn 1: Crystal Vein , Mana Vault , K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth .

Life Total: 34

Doomsday , Life Total 28, Halved to 14:

Stacked: Infernal Contract , Mikaeus, the Unhallowed , Walking Ballista , Sacrifice , Carrion Feeder

Cycle Barren Moor , Life Total 12:

Infernal Contract , Life Total 6, Halved to 3, Sacrifice on K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth , Life total 1, Gain 7 Black, Cast Mikaeus, the Unhallowed , Cast Walking Ballista , x=0, enters as a 1/1 from Mike. Carrion Feeder next.

Activate Carrion Feeder , sacrificing Walking Ballista , Undying from Mikaeus, the Unhallowed triggers, recurring it as a 1/1 with a +1/+1 counter, remove it targetting an opponent. Rinse and repeat this process for infinite damage.

Turn 1 Win.

August 4, 2019 2:58 p.m.

Chhris says... #10

^ See, if I sat down at a table and that happened, I'd never play EDH with them again, because that's just not cricket, is it?

August 4, 2019 3:38 p.m.

dingusdingo says... #11

Tyrant-Thanatos

I don't think you quite understand what I was trying to say. Black does have strong incremental draw power ( Dark Confidant Necropotence Phyrexian Arena Mindblade Render ), but for a combo deck that is trying to win on the a combo turn those cards aren't doing a lot besides +1 storm count. Black doesn't have a lot of efficient cards that read "draw cards". Blue has a whole host of cantrips that make storm a lot smoother, like Brainstorm Ponder Preordain Sleight of Hand and the like. Black has Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood , with more mediocre entries like Read the Bones or Ancient Craving . Black is lacking efficient storm draw, which is what Aetherflux Reservoir wants. The current best option for a K'rrik + Aetherflux deck is Ad Nauseum, at which point you might as well as be playing Sidisi for consistency and tutor in command zone.

No one is denying the draw power of any of the cards you listed, but please read for context. EoT trigger with Necropotence isn't doing a lot with Aetherflux when you need to be drawing and playing 15 cards for your kill on the same turn, because of 7 card hand size and exile clause you'll never have the gas in hand from JUST necro to get to 15 spells. Obviously the card would still get slotted in the deck for hand refill but don't get it twisted dude. When I say black needs better card draw for the deck, I'm being serious. Density of small black cantrips that would make an aetherflux reservoir deck work just aren't there, and the ones available don't allow you to shave enough CMC off with this commander to make playing them worthwhile. Having big draw bombs like Necro is great, but using a tutor to get to Necro is a waste when it should be finding DD or Aetherflux, and the draw effects don't dig deep or don't give scry, making it harder to draw/topdeck into the Necro.

Posts like these are why I wish tappedout had a seperate cEDH forum. No reason to incredulously "did I just read a sTrInG oF wOrDs?" or hyperlink banned cards. You didn't add anything to this conversation dude.

Dango

Life isn't nearly as important in EDH as you make it out to be, its a resource you have an abundance of and decks can't pressure 40 fast enough for aggro to be relevant. The problem isn't the life total for Doomsday, its what I said above, lack of black cantrips. Without a good pile cracker in hand or board, you're going to either have to Doomsday and pass (loss) or simply wait for your topdeck/card advantage to bring you a pile cracker. You do make a good point that the piles don't have a lot of flexibility though, its pretty much the pile I listed or a Rings of Brighthearth + Basalt Monolith + Exsanguinate pile. Mono Black DD piles also run into the problem of crumpling under any interaction, which makes them not very appealing.

SynergyBuild

The use of Barren Moor is a great find. There are a small handful of 1 CMC black cycling cards, Fade from Memory Horror of the Broken Lands Lurching Rotbeast Razaketh's Rite Scarab Feast with an honorable mention to Gempalm Polluter and Street Wraith . Unfortunately most of these run into the problem of digging 1 card for 1 mana and being low card quality outside cycling, but this definitely opens up some deckbuilding ideas.

August 4, 2019 3:45 p.m.

Chhris says... #12

dingusdingo if you're saying you're not going to build a deck you think is cool until WOTC make a black Brainstorm , then I'm afraid you're the one nOt AdDiNg AnYtHiNg To ThE CoNvErSaTiOn

August 4, 2019 3:59 p.m.

DuTogira says... #13

Chhris dude was that really necessary? dingusdingo is literally just saying that they don’t think K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth is cEDH material because the 2 archetypes he might helm (storm and DD combo) already have better commanders. Storm needs blue because black lacks cheap cantrips to really get your storm count up there, DD combo would prefer a commander who comes with a tutor since black already has ways to leverage its life to draw enough cards AND sufficient ways to make way more than enough mana to Exsanguinate someone without paying 4 life for the pips.
Does that mean K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth is useless, lacks power, or isn’t cool/scary? No. He’s strong and scary and cool. But he’s probably not tier1 cEDH material, especially considering that mono black currently has no issues leveraging its life for stupid gains.
dingusdingo stated a well supported opinion in an educated and informative matter. Don’t diss that. Disagree if you must, but for God’s sake at least provide some intelligent reasoning for it.

August 4, 2019 8:09 p.m.

Dango says... #14

dingusdingo I'm not sure we're in disagreement here? Although the premise of my statement wasn't to pressure 40 life, but to pressure 23 life because that's the highest life total they can actually win before casting Doomsday assuming they have access to all of the pieces and aren't bricking on anything in that particular pile. That's not including the damage they deal to themselves in the process, but that doesn't include the lifegain either so for all intensive purposes, prior to DD, they can't be lower than 17 life for their best package, but if Triskelion is in hand they probably bricked for that pile. Some piles can't win if you fall under 32 life, so once you hit that threshold, that line isn't available. You're looking at different numbers for each pile, so it's all arbitrary, but that doesn't invalidate my skepticism. Regardless, this commander is going to struggle with managing life totals and will fold hard to interaction.

August 4, 2019 8:31 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #15

dingusdingo

All 'free draws' not including cycling:

Aphotic Wisps , Cremate , Nighthaze , Sign in Blood , Cruel Bargain , Infernal Contract , Necropotence .

Additionally, I feel like mentioning Nihil Spellbomb would be smart.

August 4, 2019 8:40 p.m.

dingusdingo: Sorry I offended you by speaking the truth. I don't know what fantasy land you live in where black could ever get better draw power than it has, but it's not reality. Referring to Necro as "incremental" draw is really all I need to know to stop having this conversation.

"Posts like these are why I wish tappedout had a seperate cEDH forum."

This I can at least agree with though.

August 4, 2019 10:23 p.m.

dingusdingo says... #17

Chhris and Tyrant-Thanatos

I don't know whats up but you guys should chill out. Yes, I said "better card draw" but what I really meant was "more new low cost black cantrips to supplement the existing ones to enable this particular strategy in a singleton format." I'll say that my original post was worded incorrectly but I thought I explained it out on my second one. We can flame each other and learn nothing, or we can discuss some cards and all benefit instead. I'll also say I'm sorry for poking at you in my second post. Let's move on and make a quality post with fresh cards or ideas, shall we?

Oh, I also know Necropotence can be used like a delayed 7 card Ad Nauseam , but I also know many competitive decks use Necro to stay at a full 7 each turn. The second has better application when you also can use life as a mana reducer (read: combo enabler). It's also incremental because its reusable, and like the others I posted, you don't get the cards immediately upon resolution of the effect, like you do with the spells I listed. Makes them useless during a combo turn.

DuTogira

Thank you for your words, you put my thoughts rather succinctly.

Dango

Ah I see what you're saying, we are definitely in agreement. Anything that puts them under 23 life stops the instant wins. They do also have the power to offset that with mana though, so their minimum allowable combo life can be lowered by having mana open or usable like rocks/rituals.

That is a really good point about what combos are available also effecting minimum starting life total. As another poster above said, pressuring the K'rrik player will be just like pressuring the Ad Naus player.

I don't know how likely bricking on DD is with cards in hand. They can always Cabal Therapy themselves in the spot the combo piece would occupy in the pile and reanimate it. They would be more worried about too many combo piece exiles.

SynergyBuild

Thanks for the list! There's almost enough to have me interested in building a list now.

Has anyone considered some kind of Cloudstone Curio loop?

I did a quick search for life gaining black creatures but didn't find anything promising

August 5, 2019 12:27 a.m.

dingusdingo: My original post to you, about "reading that string of words" was intended to carry a jovial tone that clearly didn't connect.

I'm about as mellow as they come, I just found the line funny, and I kind of felt like you flew off at me in response. I appreciate your willingness to bring things back down though. I was honestly expecting that this would just escalate further.

I still stand by my opinion though that Black has some of the best, if not the best, card draw cards in the game. I linked banned cards specifically do demonstrate why I think Black won't ever get stronger card draw, because when it does, it gets banned. I do believe that Blue has better card draw on the whole, but that's owing more to its quantity of draw cards, not its quality.

But on the topic of K'rrik, I'm not a big fan. Nothing so far in C19 has impressed me tbh. And not even on a power level basis. I'm not asking for stronger cards, but more interesting cards. K'rrik brings us the most mechanically interesting card yet in the set imo, and even he's not all that impressive.

August 5, 2019 12:37 a.m.

Chhris says... #19

Same. I'm chill, too! I misread the discourse and got a bit carried away - I chose my response poorly, choosing to act immaturely instead of presented a reasoned argument. Apologies all!! Props to dingusdingo for how you handled it. Sorry again.

I for sure hate Krrk the Jerk. but thats cos he just ain't my style. I think agree with Tyrant-Thanatos about the state of C19. The one Im most excited for is Gherid and Gerrard, but I'm A big ol' Timmy, and so naturally lean toward those BIG TIM VIBES.

August 5, 2019 12:45 a.m.

Dango says... #20

I really like how all the tension got defused and cleared the air here. Everyone will have their own differing opinions, and that's okay! I think often times tone is misconstrued over text, but I'm really impressed with how this was handled. What an incredible community we have. :)

August 5, 2019 12:50 a.m.

Not related to gameplay in any way, just wanna point out that this guy faked amnesia and straight up banged Jhoira repeatedly as a ploy to march an army into Tolaria. Karn ended up stopping him via time travel but accidentally created a temporal anomaly when his time machine exploded. Urza had to come in and kill Kerrik here after the fact.

And he's not Yawgmoth's biological son. Yawgmoth's title was Father of Phyrexia. "Son of Yawgmoth" was a title given to extremely loyal phyrexians.

August 5, 2019 9:49 p.m.

YamishiTheWickedOne Yeah, in Kerrick's case; while he was stuck in the fast time bubble he ended up making a fortress and an army along with changing his name to K'rrick, his followers began to refer to him as the son of Yawgmoth out of devotion towards him and the Ineffable. The background to a lot of Phyrexian agents is interesting.

August 5, 2019 10 p.m.

Upon seeing this guy as a card, I seriously thought this was a altered art at first. I mean that's clearly helmetless Kirk from Dark Souls, even his name. I guess he decided to serve Yawg Dawg after Quelaag's sister and Rosaria met the fate that every Souls character inevitably does.

On a serious note, who thought bringing back Phyrexian Mana was a good idea? Let alone making basically every black mana phyrexian black...

August 6, 2019 1:28 p.m.

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