How to deal with problematic commanders
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on March 29, 2015, midnight by MagicalHacker
So I'm hearing more and more this phrase: "Without tuck, it's now impossible to deal with problematic commanders."
That's... Well, to put it simply, completely untrue. Humility and Ixidron are my favorite examples, but there are PLENTY of ways to answer Maelstrom Wanderer, Narset, Enlightened Master, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, and more...
magicalhacker list of tuck spells
The issue is almost all these answers are sorcery speed. Sure you answer Maelstrom with say...Darksteel Mutation, but you still had to endure 7 hasted commander damage plus 2 more spells that he cascaded into.
As for Narset, a huge majority of those effects listed have no effect right off the bat due to hexproof. Even in other decks, Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots are pretty much mandatory in any build that has a problematic commander, be it Kaalia, Zur or even Maelstrom, purely because shroud is so powerful.
Tucking counterspells specifically were the perfect answer to oppressive commanders that have common protection cards.
People saying "Without tucks, it's impossible to deal with certain commanders" are wrong. But a far more reasonable argument is that they are much harder to deal with without them. Not to mention, one of the justifications was that all the good tuck spells were in blue and white, which over 75% of your alternatives still are.
March 29, 2015 12:14 a.m.
The best way to beat "problematic" commanders is to kill them before they can kill you, just like any other game. However, if this rule isn't changed I will be amazed if Derevi, Empyrial Tactician isn't banned. He's already banned in French and I would be okay with never seeing him again. I think Wizards secretly hates Commander considering the majority of the cards they print for EDH sets do no favors for the format.
I think its time to load up on anti-hexproof stuff like Glaring Spotlight and Arcane Lighthouse. Time to do some digging...
March 29, 2015 2:43 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #5
Here's the major thing: yes, it's harder to deal with problematic commanders, but it's also harder to deal with nonproblematic commanders too. Think about it. Are you going to tap out three mana to Lignify a mediocre commander, when you don't know if you need to hold open mana to counter or destroy cards? Probably not. That makes the format more balanced, but I digress. Anyways, many of the options don't care about hexproof: Humility, Ixidron, and I'm even in the process of adding cards like Gather Specimens and Desertion, since they "tuck" hexproof commanders too.
March 29, 2015 11:21 a.m.
But as I stated earlier, a majority of those answers, including the ones you just mentioned, are all still in blue and white, which was one of the reasons tucks were changed in the first place.
As for Humility and Ixidron, they are nice answers to commanders, but are not one-sided, so in addition to neutralizing whatever your opponents have, they also hinder your own board states unless you build your deck specifically around them, which isn't usually conducive to a strong deck anyway.
Plus, most problematic commanders can hit the board before turn 4, meaning 3 CMC counterspells were the best way to stop them from running rampant while everyone else is still setting up. Gather Specimens and Desertion aren't gonna do much if Kaalia and Zur have already been on the field, swinging for two turns.
March 29, 2015 11:42 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #7
I'm not saying that these cards are as cheap or nifty as the old tuck spells, but I am saying they're just as effective at stopping problematic commanders if you play them smart.
March 30, 2015 4:20 p.m.
Except the whole issue is they aren't just as effective ._.
Most being sorcery speed seriously limits their usage against commanders like Kaalia, Zur and Narset since they are usually haste enabled, which means you can be looking at huge damage, personal protection and land wipes/extra turns respectively from the three as soon as they come in. Heck, in Derevi's case, they can just instant speed put her into play as soon as you end your turn and not even have to bother with haste since all your answers are sorcery speed. And the few instant speed "tuck" spells you listed come in far too late for most problem commanders since the reason they're a problem is they get dropped so early and go out of control. The reason real tucks were effective was because you could have them as a threat usually the same turn the opponent would be thinking about playing an unprotected commander.
Sorry if I sound like I'm just being pedantic or problematic, but there so very few cards that can be considered almost as good as tucks, and probably none that could be considered "just as effective" against the well known problem commanders. For kitchen table EDH, they'll probably do fine for the most part, but once you start playing with people who are content to pick a single deck and make it their sole focus, you'll quickly realize sorcery speed pseudo answers aren't gonna cut it, and if you trick them up once, you certainly won't do it again.
March 31, 2015 11:25 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #9
Not to mention, actually I am mentioning this. You don't need to permanently stop a problematic commander just kill them off enough times they are no longer worth putting mana into.
March 31, 2015 1:24 p.m.
True I suppose, but the commonly run Boots also have hexproof/shroud attached to them, meaning board wipes are the go-to option. Or if you're facing Derevi, it is literally impossible to reach that point where she isn't worth casting, because she always casts the same and can be cast at instant speed.
MagicalHacker says... #2
*MagicalHacker - List of All "Tuck" Spells Oops sorry
March 29, 2015 12:03 a.m.