How do You determine the competitiveness of your decks?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Oct. 13, 2019, 10:35 a.m. by Colonel_Kink
CEDH games last between 10 minutes, to 180 minutes. ususally longer games occur, but depending on the meta of the group the time difference is going to differ. mine for example is usually 30-45 minutes with my groups favorite decks, when we change them the games last far longer.
BUT THE AMOUNT OF TIME SPENT ON GAMES IS IRRELEVANT. THIS POST IS ABOUT METHODS OF MAKING COMPETITIVE DECKS, and non-competitive if youd like. (example my kentrith chair tribal deck is not competitive but i use my same method to make it strong.)
stax heavy metas take longer.
combo heavy metas take shorter.
my method is to test each aspect of my edh decks. and not as a method of winning in one turn.
i test the following,
-speed
-consistency
-interaction
-disruption
and theme, (such as my kenrith headed Chair tribal deck)
What do you do?
Fast mana and mana acceleration isn't really the biggest determinant of the competitive viability of a deck. That notion is pretty flawed considering it depends on what you're actually casting. If you ramp into trash, it's still trash.
Mana crypt and moxes are much stronger in decks that can push a quick two card combo out, like flash hulk, and win on the spot. However, this attempt can still fall to early game interaction. Fast mana cards like these in a casual deck like Ayula bear tribal are about as marginal as lands themselves to be perfectly honest. The context of how they're being used is definitely an extremely relevant thing to consider. Competitive viability simply doesn't come down to who gets the turn 1 sol ring, it's much more complicated and depends on the general mindset and intent of what the deck wants to be doing at a table. In a vaccuum, fast mana seems great, but in reality there's going to be lots of interaction stopping you from doing what you want to do at the competitive level.
October 13, 2019 12:57 p.m.
Dango: Are you saying bear tribal isn't a viable cEDH strategy? Because that's just outrageous.
The other issue with the "I can win on turn X" argument is that you haven't taken into consideration the mechanics of the deck. If you're playing a GAAIV Stax deck that wants to win off Approach of the Second Sun then you don't care so much about winning on turn one as you do getting your Stax pieces down to stop everybody else from winning.
Sure, winning faster is good but don't let it cloud your deck building as all your decks will start to look the same.
October 13, 2019 6:56 p.m.
MTGGodking9001 says... #5
enpc i hope you're being satirical about bear tribal in cedh...
October 13, 2019 7:59 p.m.
MTGGodking9001: I'll let you figure that one out yourself.
October 13, 2019 11:31 p.m.
MTGGodking9001 says... #7
enpc: im guessing you were, but know that sarcasm and satire do not translate well to text form.
October 14, 2019 1:08 a.m.
SynergyBuild says... #8
Nah man, Food Chain Ayula is a tier 0 deck, being mono-green it is impossible that it doesn't hit 200 mana turn one, and all of that mana being green allowing you to cast Food Chain and Bear-ternal Scourge to cast Ayula and infinitely pump it, fighting all opponents, getting infinite mana to dump into the Walking Ballista that was fetched with your signature spell; Enter the Bearfinite, which draws your whole bear deck and places it onto the field, giving you no maximum bear size.
This deck also has Veil of Summer as its second signature spell for the partner bearmander, Yeva, in bear mode. This means since you have 2,000 mana turn zero you can flash in all of your bears and protect them from 0 mana countermagic.
Now that you have your bears, infinitely large everything and 20,000 mana turn negative one you can then cast Mother Bear to loop it with Bearshnod's Altar and Pull from bear-ternity, to gain infinitely more bears, infinitely pumping them all with your infinitly big Ayula.
Turn negative infinity, instant 100% win. Even has a 100% winrate in the mirror.
October 14, 2019 12:03 p.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #9
hi just realised my method seemed a bit simple to understand, so i am doing the entire method simply here
i also consider the turn one or two win null if you dont have protection like a counter or pyroblast etc. the point is not to get the combo on turn one but how fast you can theoretically pull it off. if you can do it in one turn, fill the rest of your deck with interaction and removal. its all statistics and risk in the end.
because other players may get the turn one or two advantage and its all about holding your cards until the right time where you pull it out when the coast is clear, but first
-i see the viability of the combo through mana excess -- add tutors to see how fast it takes to piece it together --- take out the mana and put in the accelerators ---- then add meta based interaction. ----- then i pit my decks against eachother.
October 14, 2019 2:20 p.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #10
Synergy Build, i attempted to make ayula as competitive as possible... by running bear stax and beating down with bears. She is my actual Monogreen go to deck haha
using ayula and the bears as big bodies and removal against relevant creatures, slow down with artifacts, ramp out and include methods of breaking parity... sure it was fun but i didnt win many in CEDH group, but i was never targeted cuz of the nature of my deck haha.
October 14, 2019 2:24 p.m.
To be completely honest, even assembling a turn one win in cEDH and trying to build around what you want to see in the god hand is not remotely what cEDH encompasses. That mindset involves aggressive mulligans and I don't feasibly see how that could be considered consistent. There are other archetypes that aim to slow down the game like control, stax, and midrange decks that are all too prominent nowadays. Turn one wins are not viable outside of a vaccuum when there are three other players with full hands and haven't had a chance to expend their interaction on anything. If you push for a win right away, you're going to be punished.
October 14, 2019 2:42 p.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #12
dango, i dont intend on getting god hands every time.
its all about how fast you can assemble a win, whilst preventing your opponents from winning.
heck i said that stax is viable in the orriginal comment, i feel like you arent understanding my method and instead assume i expect god hands from just OP combos,
i SAID assemble a winning position within the first 3 turns (as fast as possible) With interaction available.
once that is established, i work on versing my decks against eachother and none will ever let a hand win in the first 3 turns especially with countermagic held.
PLEASE try and understand my method, its my personal method and i just wanted to hear how others did it to improve my own, instead you just keep on crapping on my ideas.
October 14, 2019 2:52 p.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #13
srsly dango, read my comments fully.
True CEDH matches either end in the first 3 turns, (rarely) and take between 10-30 minutes usually.
advance your boardstate in the meantime, play interaction to prevent winning plays, then when you have the chance push for the win with a dominant play, EG Combo, stax etc
if you dont understand that i have mentioned this in nearly every comment then you are just ignoring my words
October 14, 2019 2:55 p.m.
Grindy cEDH pods with two stax players, and a control player RARELY only last 3 turns. I'm not ignoring your words, but you're clearly ignoring mine. It's a very narrow view to dismiss cEDH as a general metagame with people who are trying to drop their combos as soon as they can when there are several decks in cEDH that don't want to do that at all and prefer to outvalue their opponents. Every playgroup has a VERY specific meta they tune to. That's the point I've been trying to get across.
Anyway I feel condescended by that last message so I guess I'll just leave now.
October 14, 2019 3:13 p.m.
@ Colonel_Kink True competitive edh matches rarely take only 3 turns. Those are pretty exclusively the types of games that are not competitive played by lower skill leveled players playing glass cannon fast combo decks. In true competitive settings with players of high skill levels piloting more advanced strategies the games tend to last between 6 and 12 turns with every player attempting to go off and having that attempt stuffed once or even twice before enough players run out of resources to defend against the last player left with some sort of game winning combo line to play.
The kinds of games you think are "competiive" are liable to be the types of games you would typically see from, say, a Laboratory Maniacs video. These are pretty good players playing high powered but hugely flawed decks making a relatively large number of misplays in each match video. That's not really top tier competitive play mate. It's about the best quality play one can see from amateur players, but quite far from truly competive level edh; even if that's about the most competitive edh tends to get as a casual format played mostly by casual players.
October 14, 2019 4:09 p.m. Edited.
Colonel_Kink says... #16
oh my gosh, dango i said ----RARELY---- END IN THE FIRST 3 TURNS, READ MY COMMENTS!!! MOST GAMES LAST 10-30 MINUTES. disclaimer = sometimes more with more stax players.
geez, i cant believe he wouldnt read my fricking comments properly. also i dont know hwat laboratory maniacs channel is. sorry. i dont watch those vids, except for playing with power mtg, thats what started me into CEDH
October 15, 2019 10:30 a.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #17
also, if someone could tell me that i was being unclear in my comments to dango that would make me feel better cuz how much clearer do i have to be to repeat the same thing over and over with that guy refusing to see that i was agreeing with his statements that they last longer than 3 turns oh my goodyaunt.
October 15, 2019 10:31 a.m.
Playing with Power is going to be a bit lower on the quality and competitiveness spectrum than Lab Maniacs on average I would say. Both are about the upper end of what you are going to find as "competitive" on YouTube, but these are still both platforms that showcase why edh is considered a casual format played mostly by casual amateur players on a regular basis. Higher quality than something like Game Knights and certainly way more competitive than Commander Clash, but nothing you find on YouTube is going be the absolute top end of competitive level play.
October 15, 2019 11:08 a.m.
Sine you asked, and this is going to sound a bit obtuse, your two major problems are grammar and tone.
"True CEDH matches either end in the first 3 turns, (rarely) and take between 10-30 minutes usually"
This is a poorly written sentence - the comma before the parenthetical rarely separates the "rarely" from the term it is intended to modify, and, by not using the same punctuation for "rarely" and "usually" (i.e. by not using a parenthetical usually to mirror the prior parenthetical rarely), you have created a sentence with ambiguity, leading to multiple possible interpretations.
Combine that with SHOUTY CAPS and your posts give the impression that they were written in an aggressive, haphazard manner. Individuals tend to be disinclined to read with the critical eye necessary to see the intent behind the poor writing if they feel they are being condescended to.
That's not to be rude - you asked, and that's just my two cents as an outside observer who is not biased by previous involvement in this conversation.
On topic, I also use TypicalTimmy's method of running a new deck through a gauntlet of other meta-specific decks.
That said, I do think Goldfishing is extremely useful in one regards--checking to see if you will consistently have the right amount and types of mana in your opening hand. I usually test draw a couple dozen opening hands so I get a feel for how often I will probably need to mulligan due to mana flood/screw, and then adjust if I find my mana base is not conductive to playable opening hands.
This is a bit off topic, since this thread is really focused on deck bruin, but it bears saying regardless. I think its rather unbearable to read any discussion of Ayula, Queen Among Bears if there are bearly any puns.
October 15, 2019 11:09 a.m. Edited.
Colonel_Kink says... #20
thanks Caerwyn,
might i ask how you would have worded what i was saying. cuz i said it in multiple different ways trying to get my point across.
honestly i was hoping for good convo about this, and maybe this is just cuz im an australian that my lingo is different to his, but still i started to get frustrated by the 4rth comment that i repeated myself.
i hate wasting time repeating myself, especially when the other person can just reread my texted comment
October 15, 2019 11:54 a.m.
Without chanting the substance any: True cEDH matches either end in their first 3 turns (rarely) or take between 10-30 minutes (usually).
Just small changes - making the two halves of the sentence mirror one another in terms of form and adding an "or". This makes it more clear that the statements are in the alternative, as well as shows which you believe is the more likely situation.
Again, while I was able to figure out what you were trying to say, I can see why others might not. The onus is on you to effectively and politely convey your ideas--I don't think it is exactly fair to shift the blame to the reader.
October 15, 2019 noon
TypicalTimmy - There are a number of game-ending combos that can be fired off on turn 1-3, assuming a strong opening hand with lots of low-cost rocks and no enemy interaction. Once you’ve comboed, the difference between 20 and 120 is trivial (or irrelevant if you use an alternate win condition).
October 15, 2019 12:22 p.m.
TypicalTimmy - to provide an example:
Turn 1: Play, Island , Mana Crypt , Chrome Mox . Tap land for Sol Ring . Tap Mana Crypt to play Isochron Scepter with Dramatic Reversal imprinted on it. Generate infinite mana using Dramatic Reversal with your rocks. Cast Urza, Lord High Artificer from command zone. Pump infinite mana into his ability to dig for whatever you need to win the game right then and there.
October 15, 2019 12:31 p.m. Edited.
TypicalTimmy - Yeah there are a lot of potential turn 1 combo wins in cEDH. Dark Ritual into DD, fast mana into Flash Hulk combo, ANAG, the list goes on and on. The thing is that these wins are extremely uncommon, these are less than 1% scenarios, most are less than .1% scenarios. The prevelance of fast mana and mana efficient combo enablers makes these types of lines possible even if they aren't going to happen but once in a blue moon. Very few formats even have this possibility, it's just Vintage/Legacy and EDH really. Very rarely are these combo lines something that win via damage dealt (although some can), but typically some form of alternative win condition.
October 15, 2019 12:54 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #25
I think, though my presence here was meant to be comedic and non-aggressive, I am going to side with Dango, and a lot of others in that I believe your idea of cEDH is a little too simplistic.
Imagine it like modern. While the faster decks can piece together protected combos or storm off in earlier turns, and occasionally it works, that is rare. Generally proper interaction, especially after side-boarding will allow for long drawn-out matches that use card advantage, control-y engines, and well-built synergies to end the game.
The main difference is in that in EDH more players have more interaction, so each player has to get through 3 others to end the game immediately. More often people team up against others, and just like in normal EDH, politics comes into play. Using these factors actually makes cEDH quite a slow format.
I don't mean only slow in terms of where people win, but where the winner is decided.
If an artifact-stax build, like a Teferi or Urza list gets down Cursed Totem and Winter Orb and 3 protective counterspells or something against a group of Selvalas and Yisans you know who is favored tremendously, but in cEDH that situation rarely occurs, and setting up a boardstate properly that, in a stax deck, allows you to out-control and out-value your opponents will take many more turns to set up than you make it sound.
Additionally, if you want to test decks without opponents, play yourself. Run multiple lists against eachother, play all 4, or get some others on skype and go ham, or on MTGO, or on Cockatrice or Untap, etc. You can test lists with much more ease than attempting an overly complex goldfishing system like you have.
Now back to my unBEARable comedy (for you, Caerwyn). It was raining earlier so I felt like a Drizzly bear, now I am at my house, watching some classic movies and feeling like a Panda Bear because they are in black and white. While watching movies I like to have some stuff to snack on, so I am drinking a Coca Koala and eating a blue-BEARy pie. I hope they don't rot my teeth though, or else I'll just be a gummy bear.
October 15, 2019 2:06 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #26
I Think the smallest line to go infinite I saw was the general Island, Lotus Petal, Flash, Protean Hulk version.
Fetch the old Torch Courier , Incubation Druid , Vigean Graftmage to make infinite mana of all colors, dump them into Kenrith or something.
October 15, 2019 2:25 p.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #27
well, i repeat, actually im going to omit the turn 1-3 thing.
CEDH games last between 10-30 minutes.
stax heavy metas take longer.
combo heavy metas take shorter.
my method is to test each aspect of my edh decks. and not as a method of winning in one turn.
-speed -consistency -interaction -disruption and theme, (such as my kenrith headed Chair tribal deck)
is this clear for eveyone? im replacing my original comment with this to avoid confusion if this is best.
October 16, 2019 6:06 a.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #28
and if this doesnt get what i do across, then i suppose there is just something wrong with me.
October 16, 2019 6:10 a.m.
Certainly pretty clear, but I think most competitive players would strongly disagree that competitive games typically last 10-30 minutes. Those are the 1% games where some one opens with a God hand going first in a pod and wins by turn 2. These types of games are the exception in truly competitive circumstances.
Most competitive matches last between an hour and 2 hours as players all reach turn 3 or so able to threaten a win and the game sort of becomes a Mexican Standoff with everyone pointing interaction at each other and nobody trying to be the first person to lose by attempting to go off when everyone else is going to be able to shut that attempt down. Competitive games mostly tend to get really slow starting around turn 3 because each decision becomes critical and one wrong move means creating a perfect opportunity for an opponent.
October 16, 2019 9:07 a.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #30
my pod is extremely competitive, as in 10 thousand dollar decks are normal. and if you cant afford it, you must proxy to keep up.
maybe thats why my meta is 10-30 mins. i assumed that all CEDH is max power, try to have the literal best possible cards, eg timetwister in kess storm, monoblue teferi stax combo, urza stax, thrasios and tymna. etc. i play not in high power games, but in max power games.
maybe CEDH is supposed to last longer then our sessions.
October 17, 2019 4:14 a.m.
Colonel_Kink, my playgroup is 4 ex professional and semi professional (with a handful of PT and GP top 8s) players who've been playing for more than 2 decades since beta. Playgroups simply can't be found for cEDH that are more competitive. Trust me when I say your group isn't at that level. Not that yours won't be competitive for the most part, but it's pretty clear from your statements about average game length that your group consistently makes the same misplays game after game if your matches are typically 10-30 minutes with meta standard top tier decks (which by the way generally aren't as potent as the decks my group plays).
Games within a true competitive group of very skilled players simply don't end that quickly outside of 1% scenarios with god hands for the player going first in a pod and even then an attempt often gets stuffed by powerful interactive decks. The fact you're discussing Urza or Teferi as top tier decks (or just any form of Stax concept in general) shows that you're a bit misinformed when it comes to top tier competitive play (as those decks and concepts are strictly tier 3, well below the performance of the most competitive archetypes in the format). I'm not stating any of this to put you down mate, so please don't feel like I'm out to give you the business. I'm genuinely trying to assist a player who came to a forum asking for help and let you know what areas your testing program is weak at and what pieces of knowledge might help you improve that process and your general understanding of cEDH as a whole.
The whole cEDH community is a bit too biased in the direction of the things they see on YouTube or in the few tourneys hosted for edh that are almost exclusively participated in by amateur players and the community tends to believe a lot of that stuff that they see regularly is the top end of competitive play when it simply isn't. That's not to say that these are things of exclusively low quality, as that isn't the case, but you won't find top tier competitive play for cEDH outside of a few dozen playgroups of professional players who enjoy the format. Many in the community feel like you, that they are playing in "max power" situations, but that's just not the reality of the situation.
October 17, 2019 5:25 a.m. Edited.
SynergyBuild says... #32
jaymc1130 I fully agree, even on many websites like Untap where I can play with many cEDH fanatics with the best decks, where it is faster than paper (no shuffling actually makes things pretty fast), games set up with many of my really competitive friends can take roughly 45 minutes on the low, with my last game taking 2 and a half hours, with a Shuffle Hulk T&T build, an Opus Thief build, an Urza build, and a Teferi build.
Many games of even turn 2-5 wins even can take a while, with complex politics, stack manipulation, and long combo turns slowed by opposing interactive spells or abilities. The only recent turn 1 win that I had seen in the last year in my cEDH experience still took 32 minutes to go through with a Force of Vigor and a Force of Will being used at inopportune states once people caught on to just how scary the start of Crypt into Vault into a Talisman into a cast Dramatic Reversal was with Force backup (this game was in paper, so a lot of that time was in shuffling, mulligans, etc).
While I would never claim that games can't go 10 minutes, but that means that A: Shuffling, introductions/greetings, mulligans and reshuffles took less than that and that a player was able to win within the first 2 turns, as after that easily enough interaction and setup would have been put enough time on the clock to rack up well past 10. That is absurd. Not impossible, but dang absurd.
October 17, 2019 1:29 p.m.
SynergyBuild, quality points and much better explained than I probably could have attempted to do. Actions aren't instaneous and events require time to happen. Time has to be invested in calculation and thinking. Time has to be invested in more basic and fundamental aspects like shuffling. It's pretty ludicrous to think competitive matches would average game lengths where players aren't shuffling, thinking, and interacting, but this would be just about the only realistic way games would average between 10-30 minutes and clearly these games would not be competitive in a true sense as most competitive aspects have been overlooked in the interest of rushing to a conclusion.
October 17, 2019 1:41 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #34
Look, while I want to make the assumption that Colonel_Kink is wrong here on their general understanding here, or at least their perception of time, that would be wrong to do.
Until Colonel_Kink responds with why their games are so short, I don't want to make any more un-educated assumptions. Otherwise I wholeheartedly agree with what you say!
October 17, 2019 1:45 p.m.
I honestly think we got off on the wrong foot. However, I will say that in my experience with cEDH, I play in highly disruptive games that usually last between 45 minutes upwards to well over 2 hours in some cases. I pilot both Tasigur and Niv Mizzet Parun Control, and most tables I sit down at are certainly going to be accompanied by another control player, as well as a stax or midrange player, and an adaptive combo player. That's just sort of how my meta has evolved at this stage. Not to say that my meta isn't cEDH, but rather it's a cEDH meta that has been tuned to answer one another as effectively as possible. Hearing that games last 10-30 minutes sounds unfathomable based on my experience and comes across as incredibly uninteractive compared to what I'm used to seeing if that makes any sense at all to you. I just want you to better understand where I'm coming from as a competitive player, as 10-30 minute long games doesn't seem like a catch-all defining characteristic of cEDH to apply to everyone to be completely honest.
Also as a side note, I will add that I've played in a pod with Tasigur, Rashmi, Niv, and Yisan. Let me tell you, that game was the closest semblance to purgatory that I've ever come to experience. The game was so grindy that it would make even a casual battlecruiser player's gut wrench for lasting so long.
October 18, 2019 12:05 a.m. Edited.
Colonel_Kink says... #36
hi, guys, i guess ill say whats what.
10-30 minutes was a miscalculation. its usually 30-45 minutes. it goes for up to an hour-hour and half at most.
to be honest the amount of time spent on CEDH games was never my focus, thats why i kept saying what sounds like unreasonable times. my focus was on the methodology instead.
time passes when your having fun haha too. i remember the times it usually goes for 30 mins, but i realised that i could rarely remember a game that lasted less then that.
thats my error, as i have a horrible memory but my method is still the same, ill edit the post again.
October 18, 2019 6:12 a.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #37
dango, im sorry for misunderstanding your focus of the speed i was referring to. i never focused on the amount of time in games, instead speed referred to how fast you could win at any stage of the game.
early/mid/late
prime moments when everyones used up their answers or when you brute force the win etc.
i hope that you understand what i was talking about now.
October 18, 2019 6:18 a.m.
SynergyBuild says... #38
Colonel_Kink In my own opinion, the most consistent way to combo isn't after interaction is used, but whilst it's being used. Respond with Flash-Hulk in response to the counter-war over Isochron Scepter .
Rarely does an entire board run out of answers, rather, they run out of specific answers or the resources to use them, like if they are tapped out.
Now, separate from simply discussing individual deck's ability to compete, many, many more factors come into play.
In total, I believe the core things a deck needs can be simplified to 3 things:
How well it is tuned to its meta.
How well the pilot is able to judge tells, evaluate board states, play politics, memorize cards, sequence plays, and mulligan properly.
How efficient in card quality the deck is.
The first simply means whether or not the deck is easily hated out and how well it can hate out other decks in the game. If you want to play a Shimmer Zur Storm list, you want to be able to know the metagame doesn't run a large package of anti-storm cards like Damping Sphere , or too much in the way of anti-creature. You also need to know roughly the styles of decks it will face, to run proper interaction, like do I run Delay against Food Chain or Flusterstorm against counter-wars and storm builds?
The second is the pilot's skills. Obviously skill takes a major role in wins, but in cEDH there is an incredible amount of ceiling that can be reached that many people don't realize. From playing poker, you can easily tell how much tells have to do with reading opponents' hands. Tells such as if an opponent often layers cards from low-cmc front to high-cmc back, if they read cards that they don't know, and you can use this extra information to really get better winrates.
Additionally, while most cEDH players can properly sequence turns, see detailed lines, and know most played cards, I still see veterans just miss things that seem relatively obvious, but I realize are shortcutted so often that they aren't. I went recently against an Emry, Lurker of the Loch artifact storm build, who milled a Fatestitcher and Lotus Petal when it entered on turn two. An opponent on Tana and Tymna Blood Pod dropped a Trinisphere , and when it got back to the Emry player they dropped Mirran Spy and had 2 mana left. I knew they had infinite mana, but they didn't realize it.
They thought because of Trinisphere they couldn't loop Lotus Petal , Emry, Lucker of the Loch, and Mirran Spy , but because Fatestitcher could come back to tap Trinisphere down, it could. They passed, and because of a Windfall from me, we saw they had a Stroke of Genius , Mental Misstep , and some more protective elements needed to win. They just didn't know how Trinisphere worked, and never remembered the 'untapped' clause.
The last is simply saying to run a good deck with good cards. Often this implies if you have the other two you can get to the point where you are effective in a game, with the interaction and well-tuned wincon of the first point, and can close out the game.
jaymc1130 says... #2
Actually play the decks against each other.
Goldfish stats are irrelevant in the big picture as real games aren't played solitaire; your opponents will interact which makes information acquired without playing against opposing decks pretty useless. It doesn't matter if a deck can win on turn x theoretically if it can't win games in practice.
It's precisely the kind of flawed thinking that leads players in the cEDH scene to consider decks like CVT or Flash Hulk to be strong and competitive decks or Forbidden Tutor into Lab Man lines competitive concepts when in reality these strategies don't function in practice against actual competitive decks piloted by skilled players who exploit just how vulnerable these ideas are in an actual game.
October 13, 2019 11:45 a.m.