Debate: Signets or Talismans
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Oct. 3, 2019, 9:23 p.m. by JANKYARD_DOG
Signets > Talismans?
Or
Talisman > Signets?
Reference: Gruul Signet / Talisman of Impulse
Something I began debating with one of my decks that later turned into this general question of 'which is better overall?'. I want to know what the hiveminds take is on this.
Last_Laugh says... #3
As the above poster said... competitively it's definitely the Talismans.
Competitive decks have a very low avg mana cost so the likelihood of being able to play something off the back of the Talismans makes the life loss menial and games end faster.
If you're in a meta where no one wins until like turn 7+... then the Signets are probably better because the life loss from Talismans can add up in longer games and your avg cmc is probably higher.
October 3, 2019 9:43 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #5
If you are in a competitive environment or a lifegain deck run talismans.
If it is a more casual game where you might tap them 10+ times throughout most games I would definitely lean towards the signets.
If you can run both then run both.
October 3, 2019 10:05 p.m.
Skyler1776 says... #8
Absolutely. For the lockets, while they are 3 mana, they have the additional draw two effect to help you out later on as the game progresses. Talismans slowly kill you, and Signets are basically a land because you need to tap it plus another land to activate it.
October 4, 2019 7:25 a.m.
Worth mentioning for sure. Just playing devil's advocate to keep his interesting and running because I think people's opinions on this could be a useful resource.
I personally will play both a Talisman and a signet in 2-colour decks but only a locket if the colours typically struggle with card draw or need to dig. Mostly there will be a coloured spell that does the same or better and an even reasonable 2-colour land base wont need the fixing (or there is Commander's Sphere).
I don't think I'd work hard to fit in 6 (or 9!) for Signets + Talismans (+Lockets) in a 3-colour deck, but there is use for the fixing there. I play a Rakdos Locket for example in my Inalla deck which is overwhelmingly Blue in addition to loads of other things - though I'll rarely crack it for cards as I won't accumulate that much and don't need to because, well, Blue!
I think it's important to establish what the colour curve is like on a deck-by-deck basis and where/when your colour requirements come up as well as how many slots you've committed to lands that can produce all your colours.
October 4, 2019 7:55 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #11
When I want to optimize my decks, I start by taking out all the talismans and signets. I much prefer having a good manabase that fixes all my colors consistently and ramp that pushes me further than just topdecking a land.
October 4, 2019 3:27 p.m.
dingusdingo says... #12
For absolute power purposes, talismans > signets > lockets.
As you play with more competitive EDH decks, the meta really begins to focus in on turn 3. Build a strong board or threaten a win by turn 3. Talismans and signets both allow you to untap on turn 3 with 4 mana available to expend. Talismans give you the option of a 1 cmc spell on the turn you play them, while signets do not. Lockets have the bonus draw, but it eats your precious turn 3 to have a better late game (less valuable the more competitive the pod is)
One often overlooked aspect to the signets is that they always provide 2 colors of mana, while talismans always provide 1 color of mana. If you had a plains and a Gruul Signet you could cast Lightning Bolt + Simplify, while a plains + Talisman of Impulse only gives you Lightning bolt OR simplify. If your deck needs better color consistency, the signets will outperform the talismans.
TL;DR talismans are faster, signets filter better, and lockets are not good.
October 5, 2019 4:08 a.m.
I play casual/no tutor so signets all the way.
In a 3 color deck I'll run all 3 relevant signets every time. I wouldn't be against running both in a two-color non-green deck to help make up for no Cultivate / Kodama's Reach though, but I'd easily be just as happy with a Coldsteel Heart , same goes for the diamonds in a mono-color deck.
October 5, 2019 8:18 a.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #14
Thanks all for the input. Not sure it brings me any closer to a decision yet, but it gives me something to think about at least.
October 5, 2019 9:38 p.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #15
Oftentimes a combination of both is ideal.
I pretty much just came here to say this. Unless you're running more than 3 colors, I'd just run all of the talismans you can and all of the signets you can. Depending on deck/budget, throw in Sol Ring , Mana Crypt / Vault , Arcane Signet , and you're good.
October 5, 2019 10:04 p.m.
BudgetOathbreaket says... #16
Talismans are good for ramping the turn you play them, signets are good for filtering, and lockets are good for budget decks, especially in colors that struggle with card draw or ramp. I put boros locket in most of my boros decks.
October 5, 2019 10:18 p.m.
Don't forget Darksteel Ingot , good fit in any 2+ color deck that survives most board clears.
jaymc1130 says... #2
For competitive purposes the Talismans are always superior in terms of performance because they can tap for mana the turn they come into play. At times the Signets will not if the last 2 mana available was spent to cast the Signet itself.
In actual game play situations and not pure theory both have merits. Signets provide filtering and don't drain your life total, while the Talismans offer pure ramp that can have the drawback of draining life. Oftentimes a combination of both is ideal.
October 3, 2019 9:30 p.m.