Competitive Kids: Is Twilight Prophet worthwhile?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Jan. 6, 2020, 8:36 p.m. by dingusdingo
Recently stumbled across Twilight Prophet , and noticed some similarities/differences to Dark Confidant . Is there potential for an application in stax or grindy mid game decks? Seems especially a list like Blood Pod could benefit, any list that has beatdown as a backup plan
- 2 mana vs. 4 mana ( Dark Confidant v. Twilight Prophet )
- Assuming normal mana curve, first card is turn 3 vs. turn 5
- Prophet requires ascending before giving ANY cards
- Confidant only loses you life, while Prophet gains you life and slurps all your opponents.
- Prophet is a superior blocker and body, 2/1 against a 2/4 flying.
- Topdeck manipulation doubles as Lightning Axe against all players by picking permanents with big CMC.
For anyone interested about ascend, 702.130b Ascend on a permanent represents a static ability. It means “Any time you control ten or more permanents and you don’t have the city’s blessing, you get the city’s blessing for the rest of the game.”
Give me your thoughts! Would you run it? If so, where?
DrukenReaps says... #3
I don't play competitively but if you are looking at a grindy deck I don't see why you wouldn't be able to ascend pretty easily. If it manages to stay in play it could even result in one or two player kills with you just siting there grinding out the value. At the very least it might make some of the players that are normally happy to drop their life totals to almost nothing hesitate for a moment.
January 6, 2020 8:43 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #4
Prophet seems too slow for 1 extra card per turn competitively. Bob gets out faster, and at higher cmcs for draw in black you could just play ad naus and get 1/4 of your deck in hand at instant speed.
January 6, 2020 8:47 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #5
In blood pod there are just better options. Oakhame Adversary seems to be the tech most are using in pod/4c lists. Should almost always be 2cmc for a 2/3 deathtouch. Additionally, it's an elf which synergizes with Priest of Titania . I like the prophet in tribal decks just in cedh decks I dont think itll fit. Space is tight even in 99 card decks.
January 6, 2020 9:12 p.m.
Hobeatly ive always heard it was a bit too slow for cedh.
January 6, 2020 9:39 p.m.
I have a foil version in the wife's Doran, the Siege Tower deck and it is in fact gorgeous
I like it in there for the added benefit of swinging for 4 rather than 2 ;)
In the event of a standstill/stalemate, it is nice to have a draw card that also drains. I have a few bombs like Avacyn, Angel of Hope in there which is something you always hope to reveal lol
I wouldn't say it's a competitive must-have, but it does gain lots of value. Ascending is pretty easy in a 4-person pod. You almost always have 4-5 lands and a few artifacts by the time she's cast. Just my $0.02
January 7, 2020 9:10 a.m.
dingusdingo says... #9
I came across this card while researching for stuff for my Alesha stax deck. That decks goal is to slow the game/cut off combos and accrue advantage, which is why it caught my eye. I don't imagine the card being too viable in fast combo, like Bob is, mostly due to the CMC and board requirements. I'm still intrigued in the value it can generate in a grindier match up though, especially seeing how effective the Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow trigger is. Being able to hit all 3 players simultaneously makes the damage dealt FAR more efficient.
shadow63
Interesting, my biggest fear for the card would be not getting the cities blessing consistently. What kind of a deck or shell did you run it in?
DrukenReaps
One of my biggest considerations for its inclusion is how much it pressures Ad Nauseam and Necropotence, the "life total into card draw" cards. Have you run into this or played it outside of competitive? Would love to know hear about it.
GhostChieftain
Bob does come out way faster, and guarantees the card, which is why its so good. Prophet is significantly slower, with higher risk of being staxed out due to its higher CMC. I would agree that most decks would rather slot Ad Nauseam in its place. Something to consider is how Prophet could dig for and also power out an Ad Nauseam too.
RNR_Gaming
I often see Oakhame Adversary included in lists, and it seems very strong. Oakhame requires combat step to work though, and deals damage at a slower rate to players. It seems like more a card advantage engine than anything, where Prophet seems right inbetween card engine and backup wincon.
Obviously I don't want to overestimate how much damage is coming from those life loss triggers, but realistically you'd aim to exploit it with format staples like Sensei's Divining Top Imperial Seal Vampiric Tutor and so forth. Especially if you're packing anything with CMC 6+, you can speed up the clock on beatdown.
dbpunk
I don't imagine combo oriented lists will want it like they do Bob. I'm think it might have a home in stax or insane value lists though.
Suns_Champion
Agreed, visually striking.
greyninja
Great insight. Cities blessing seems like you can attain it decently fast unless you get wiped.
Is Prophet a big target when it hits the board? Is the lifeloss from the drawing trigger significant to your beatdown? Any nice synergy cards you run alongside it?
January 7, 2020 2:26 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #10
dingusdingo I haven't seen an ad nauseum in casual play since high school when the card came out. It is exceedingly rare for casual players to treat their life totals the same way competitive players are willing to do.
That said I have my Divine Decree deck where the win-con is Manabarbs , Twilight Prophet , Spellshock , etc. Casual play does see necropotence on occasion in my meta and a lot of phyrexian arena type effects. People do go from thinking " Painful Quandary is a silly card" to "where is my removal I'm about to get wrecked" when they are not careful.
January 7, 2020 3:06 p.m.
Dingudingo at the time I had it in my 5 color dragons deck and one game it was my own fault for keeping a bad had. I've since moved it to my windgrace and often times I can hit the 10 permanents just off my lands
January 7, 2020 3:19 p.m.
I tried to build a U/B Control deck in standard when
Twilight Prophet
was still in rotation.
Twilight Prophet
has... a lot of issues. In cEDH where your life total is 20, using it as a backup wincon is incredibly inconsistent, and tends to only work when your opponent is already losing by a significant margin.
EG: If you play
Twilight Prophet
while both you and your opponent still have 3+ cards in hand, chances are your
Twilight Prophet
trades with a
Counterspell
or some piece of removal (in cEDH, a 1-1 but you come out 2 mana behind more often than not).
In situations where your opponent is winning,
Twilight Prophet
is a 2/4 flyer for 4. Not terrible, but definitely not great.
In situations where you're already winning, you'd prefer a card that really ends the game, not one that slowly eeks out more value, although
Twilight Prophet
still gets the job done, if slowly. I'd usually prefer a straight up
Lava Axe
in these situations.
In a staxy situation where you and your opponent both have basically nothing, you'd prefer something that puts you significantly ahead, not just kinda slowly eeks you forward. Something like
Nezahal, Primal Tide
(which I know you can't run in alesha, but I'm using it as an example to demonstrate a point) would be preferable, and cEDH has far bigger/better bombs than nezzy.
Twilight Prophet plays into a couple different roles, but the problem is that it's decidedly mediocre at all of them. Don't get me wrong, I love the card and run it in my Vona, Butcher of Magan deck, but I've never really be impressed with it. You can make it work, probably even in cEDH... I just wouldn't get my hopes up too high. In my experience, using it never "feels good", and drawing it usually gets a mental "eh, could have been worse".
Whether you decide to run it permanently or not, definitely test it out, just try not to fall in love with the idea of using it too quickly.
January 7, 2020 7:53 p.m. Edited.
GhostChieftain says... #13
DuTogira cEDH isn't 20 life though. We currently (and hopefully always) have the exact same rules as edh. You might be thinking of duel commander.
January 7, 2020 8:41 p.m.
GhostChieftain. I admittedly don't do much cEDH but follow Canadian Highlander pretty closely. That must have been my confusion (life is 20 in CanLander). Either way, I stand by my points.
January 7, 2020 8:55 p.m.
@dingusdingo anyone with threat assessment will know to remove permanents that provide card advantage. doesn't mean you shouldn't try! Haha
One of my pet cards is Bloodgift Demon . I can't say I run it in all my decks... but when I see a 4cmc flyer with an upside to the c-advantage I'm like HMMM
I do run Sensei's Divining Top in all my edh decks. Sometimes you may find 'em both in a game fingers crossed
We're rooting for ya !
shadow63 says... #2
I use the card and its pretty good. It has done a lot in a few games but once or twice I couldn't pull off the city's blessing
January 6, 2020 8:43 p.m.