[COMMUNITY] What cards do you wish were banned or unbanned?

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on Aug. 17, 2019, 8:48 p.m. by SynergyBuild

Changes to the Banlist?

The format of the comments should be simple:


Ban: Ad Nauseam

Reason: I believe cards like Ad Nauseam that take abuse of the excess of life to win the game nearly on the spot in decks built around it with or without combos like Angel's Grace make games too easy.


(I don't believe this, but it is just an example.)

You may discuss all other people's suggestion, but you cannot write to ban something or unban something, without a clear reason.


Any other suggestions to this post? Just write them!

Joe_Ken_ says... #2

Unban

I feel that Coalition Victory should be unbanned. The card is a ‘you win the game’ effect, but it has a high mana cost and is still pretty difficult to pull off since you need to have lands of each basic type. Which yes shocklands and multi-color creatures can shorten the win con aspect of it, but for mana I feel like not too many people would still play it.

August 17, 2019 9:14 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #3

Unban: Griselbrand

With cards such as Ad Nauseam , Greed , Necropotence and now Vilis, Broker of Blood the way I see it is if you want to dump your life total into your library, so be it. It makes it easier for the rest of us to win. If you pay 21 life and draw 21 cards, you may have the answers but you have two hurdles now to overcome:

  • 3v1 Archenemy style gameplay.
  • You only have so much mana. You will eventually run out of options.

So go ahead, drain half of your life away. I'll swing for lethal next turn turn ;)

August 17, 2019 9:18 p.m. Edited.

SynergyBuild says... #4

Joe_Ken_ Totally. That was always a cool and balanced card I thought. Sure some people may get upset, but it takes do much setup tooth and nail is just easier.

August 17, 2019 9:21 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #5

There is now a pitfall that players who may wish to use Coalition Victory will fall into: Wastes . If you don't have one, you don't win. Lol.

August 17, 2019 9:33 p.m.

TypicalTimmy: Incorrect. Wastes is not a basic land type. it is the name of a basic land which has no land types, but it is not a basic land type. You do not need a Wastes to trigger Coalition Victory . Similarly, cards like Prismatic Omen do not turn lands into Wastes, and do not enable them to produce colorless mana.

Wastes is not a land type. If something asks you to name a land type, you can’t choose Wastes. (2016-01-22)

As for the topic at hand: Unban everything. My main playgroup plays this way, and honestly nothing has felt broken enough as to need rebanning. At least, nothing that can't just be easily replicated by similar effects. The fact that we're all here to have fun means people already just don't pack stuff like Winter Orb , which already isn't banned anyways. I'm not going to sit here and bash the RC for their irregular decision-making process where it comes to bans, and I understand where bans might be desired for stranger v stranger gameplay, but I just don't enjoy that for other reasons besides, so yeah.

August 17, 2019 9:55 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #7

Tyrant-Thanatos I like the idea, but when playing online I am sort of glad people are running power 9 and stuff xD, as it is really easy to get there any makes like at least 10-20ish cards set in stone that you play, leading to less diverse cards. Not that cEDH isn't already sort of that way, with Ancient Tomb, the legal Moxen, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, and the sort, but I am happy there aren't another 15 that if you are in the colors for you have to play.

August 17, 2019 9:59 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #8

Ban: Sol Ring

Just for a month, say in April. Just to watch the community go in a frenzied uproar, lol.


Worth discussing, the general trend among banned cards is for one of two options:

  • They create an unbalanced play style that can lock players out of the game, which is unfair and of poor sportsmanship.
  • They generate far too much power and allow the player to win too easily; That is to say they win you the game if you have it out.

While I agree that locking a player out of the game with Iona, Shield of Emeria is pretty unfair, I also recognize you have two other players who should be able to handle it. Though, politics can push that off.

Still, I would need to question why cards like Void Winnower are still legal? Or Gaddock Teeg ?

I think ultimately what happens is people see a card do well in a tournament, so everyone starts to buy it. It gains traction, goes up in price, people complain and Wizard's steps in to qualm the outrage.

The truth of the matter is that the format is so diverse and the card pool is so extensive, no single card is undefeatable.

I'm sure if hundreds of players began to abuse the Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood combo, one of those would readily get banned, too. And yet, since nobody is using it, they both remain legal.

Bans happen because players abuse a cool new trend, not because the card is broken. Just look at Standard. How many Tier 1 decks got banned into dust during Kaladesh because of copypasta-netdecking?

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with using a design that is not entirely your own; I am saying Wizard's may be evaluating their ban list incorrectly, for EDH.

August 17, 2019 10:13 p.m.

Worth discussing, the general trend among banned cards is for one of two options:

  • They create an unbalanced play style that can lock players out of the game, which is unfair and of poor sportsmanship.
  • They generate far too much power and allow the player to win too easily; That is to say they win you the game if you have it out. While I agree that locking a player out of the game with Iona, Shield of Emeria is pretty unfair, I also recognize you have two other players who should be able to handle it. Though, politics can push that off.

Still, I would need to question why cards like Void Winnower are still legal? Or Gaddock Teeg ?

These are the exact reasons that the RC gets so much flack for their bannings. They don't feel consistent. "We ban oppressive lockdown cards like Iona !" "What's a Stasis ?"

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with using a design that is not entirely your own; I am saying Wizard's may be evaluating their ban list incorrectly, for EDH.

WotC doesn't handle the bans for EDH. The EDH Rules Committee does.

August 17, 2019 10:21 p.m.

Arvail says... #10

I think the changes pushed through the last announcement were horseshit.

August 17, 2019 10:42 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #11

1) start from scratch.

2) do with the commander banlist exactly what we did with every other format’s; we design it solely with competitive play in mind.

3) publish an article addressing the differences between playgroups and how bans and other houserules should be handled within metagames. Provide examples and I would encourage them to get someone from D&D on writing that.

August 18, 2019 1:19 a.m.

griffstick says... #12

I hate Stasis . I would love it if that card got banned. I don't care that it's symmetrical its bullshit. Players skip the very most important part of magic untap step. The untap step is so important that nothing can happen in that step except phasing. And its because it's so important to make the game work... stasis what the fuck. Such a bullshit card.

August 18, 2019 2:49 a.m.

dbpunk says... #13

Honestly Tinker , Braids, Cabal Minion and Primeval Titan are my three for unbanning.

Tinker is damn good, but the worst cards it can be played with ( Paradox Engine , Panoptic Mirror ) are banned. Unless it's in the right deck, it's not as horrifying as other tutors.

Primeval Titan would ramp you up big time, and I'll admit it's really strong, but the lands do come in tapped and it's not like Sylvan Primordial or Sundering Titan where it's blatantly destroying lands. And also, it's an obvious target. You know it would last to attack even.

Braids, Cabal Minion takes one permanent a turn and hits you too. There are much worse legendaries in mono black right now. And most decks have some token production/artifact ramp now, so it's not always gonna hit super big.

Also, fair argument for Gband to be unbanned.

August 18, 2019 3:21 a.m.

dbpunk says... #14

Also I think the only reason they banned Iona, Shield of Emeria was because that was the real heavy factor behind banning Painter's Servant , which is really a weak card outside of the combo with Iona and the mill combo. But Iona is kind of a powerhouse in her own right.

August 18, 2019 3:26 a.m.

SynergyBuild says... #15

So total, griffstick and Tyrant-Thanatos want Stasis banned, and some people seem to think Iona, Shield of Emeria , Griselbrand , and a few other cards should be unbanned.

Does anyone think the big sorceries should be unbanned? ( Biorhythm , Sway of the Stars , and Worldfire , as Coalition Victory was mentioned already) I think these would be a lot of fun to play with, and because many similar complicated and slow massive cards already exist to these that are unbanned, Warp World , The Great Aurora , Decree of Annihilation , etc., it seems these were chosen almost at random xD.

August 18, 2019 9:27 a.m.

Fellin22 says... #16

Ban: hermit Druid and stasis, maybe smothering tithe (gives people headaches with tithe triggers). Unban: Grisy B and primeval titan.

August 18, 2019 9:48 a.m.

Ban: Flash Why: 2cmc wincons aren't okay. Channel is banned for the same reason.

August 18, 2019 10:37 a.m.

Banning stasis/stax stuff is pointless, stax is terrible. If all the white stax pieces were unbanned, maybe white would be a color in commander-- tenuously.

August 18, 2019 10:39 a.m.

dbpunk says... #19

Sway of the Stars and Biorhythm don't deserve to be banned honestly. Sway is so high costed for what it does it's ridiculous, and biorhythm is extremely easy to play around it feels like.

Worldfire is the ultimate need to be banned red card. It essentially says "No one plays anything for the rest of the game." It makes a situation not where one player can't play or is unable to do things, but where no player is.

August 18, 2019 1:07 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #20

Fellin22, Hermit Druid maybe be strong, but being such a fragile card, needing a turn of no removal to get around or another piece in a haste enabler and I doubt it is truly a menace to the format. Nearly 0 cEDH lists I have seen in Maximum power run it anymore, as doing so for a major wincon does require a lack of basics and some build around, and that just gets crushed by Back to Basics or Blood Moon , while making painful manabases.

Nerdytimesorwhatever, I agree, I believe in many ways that Flash is an unhealthy card for the format, that or ban its partner Protean Hulk again. Perhaps both. I feel like Channel isn't banned for that reason though, it is banned more along the lines of Yawgmoth's Bargain , where due to the 40 life, it is even more unfair than normal. Not sure, maybe a bit of both. It is also a major reason due to why in the cEDH scene Thrasios/Tymna is by far the best deck.

August 18, 2019 1:27 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #21

I hear advocates for keeping Emrakul, the Aeons Torn banned while others want to see her unbanned. What's th consensus here?

Pros:

  • Giant threat that forces cooperation among players
  • Really only can attack one player at a time
  • Unless cheated, very difficult to manage
  • If you cheat her out, you don't get the extra turn
  • If run as General, you lock yourself into colorless

Cons:

  • Cheated out easily if built around
  • Extra turn if you spend the full
  • Flying + Annihilator
  • Too difficult to take down outside of blocking

Emrakul can't be the target of colored spells, but she can be blocked by colored creatures or targeted by abilities of colored permanents, so says the official ruling.

So what do people feel about her?

August 18, 2019 1:36 p.m. Edited.

11hrr says... #22

Un-ban Paradox Engine, I say!

August 18, 2019 2:58 p.m.

Unban: Recurring Nightmare

Reason: I have a GB Graveyard deck and I want to do broken things.

August 18, 2019 5:36 p.m.

Unban:

Paradox Engine? I love the card and think its honestly a little dinky for competitive. Its a must counter(sometimes), but there are so many 1 mana answers for it that are already ubiquitous. I feel it was being pushed out of CEDH slowly in lieu of more efficient cards, and the banning horribly damaged some decks ability to... Well, play the game. Perhaps they hinged to hard on Engine. Perhaps more untappity tiptapperoos will be printed. I think it was a card that engendered creativity.

TypicalTimmy Heres my .02 Emrakul could definitely be unbanned and we likely wouldn't feel it in cEdh, casual tables likely wouldn't much either. I think Emrakul as a commander would be a pretty hilarious, though terrible, deck. And decks designed to cheat it out would get a bit of a boon. Maybe combat damage would matter?

Braids doesn't deserve to be banned. Its hilarious that such a meh card is worthy of the list. Same with Iona. Both aren't very good, in all honesty, and a mildly competent casual table that actually had interaction in their decks could deal with them.

SynergyBuild Channel facilitates 39 (19 mana with 20 max life would still be enough) mana on turn 0-1. Idk what you'd do with it, but I don't think the life total change is as relevant for channel as it is for a card that digs through your deck. Channel is a one shot, goodbye. Usually Bargain would be too, but not always. There's more depth there.

August 18, 2019 6:23 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #25

Nerdytimesorwhatever Sorry, but my original post was saying Channel was broken because of that. We agree xD.

August 18, 2019 9:09 p.m.

dbpunk says... #26

Here's some thoughts on it:

Unban: Ancestral Recall , Balance the Moxes, Biorhythm , Braids, Cabal Minion , Coalition Victory , Primeval Titan , Sway of the Stars , Erayo, Soratami Ascendant , Library of Alexandria , Recurring Nightmare , Emrakul, the Aeons Torn , Griselbrand , Prophet of Kruphix and Tolarian Academy

All of these cards are strong, but there's so many answers to them now that they can all easily be beaten. Also if someone successfully casts any of the big stuff on there without someone countering it or somehow stopping whatever degenerate thing they're doing with that card, they deserve to win probably. All of them have answers outside of removal as well, such as methods to slow them down or steal their draws.

Ban: all other cards on the banlist, Stasis

All the other cards ruin games pretty much, or at least are just completely annoying. Stasis doesn't really have an answer past enchantment destruction currently, unlike the cards I said above.

August 18, 2019 9:32 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #27

dbpunk you... are joking, right?

Ancestral Recall , Emrakul, the Aeons Torn , Griselbrand , and Tolarian Academy are all absolutely bat-shit crazy cards, and can totally destroy a game.

Balance and Erayo, Soratami Ascendant lead to insanely unpleasant gameplay.

Prophet of Kruphix , as much as my Roon deck would love it, is a busted card. It’s good enough to immediately go into any blue/green deck, and that’s what got Paradox Engine banned.

August 19, 2019 1:15 a.m.

griffstick says... #28

Prophet of Kruphix is so good people played decks with both blue and green in it just so they can add it to the deck. I'm guilty too. I started to only build simic deck because of it.

August 19, 2019 2:10 a.m.

dbpunk says... #29

Yes they're all crazy good. But frankly they're not as hard to deal with as they used to be when they were initially banned.

Emrakul can be Nevermore 'd destroyed by a field wipe, which we have an abundance of now.

Tolarian Academy is only good if someone doesn't wipe out your artifacts. Just like Serra's Sanctuary only works if you have an abundance of enchantments or Gaea's Cradle is only horrifying if you have a ton of creatures.

Erayo's a vanilla 1/1 until someone casts the fourth spell of a turn and balance can be countered. Not to mention we have a ton of safe guards against opponents forcing us to sacrifice now and way more land recursion/noncreature permanent recursion.

Prophets good, but also extremely killable and manipulatable. Same with Griselbrand.

Do these cards make gameplay difficult? Yes. But so do any number of cards when combined correctly. These just don't make you jump through as many hoops.

August 19, 2019 3:16 a.m.

Boza says... #30

I see this thread as a reason to not mess with the RC on banning unbanning decisions - literally no-one can agree on a single correct course of action. Thus, there can be no consensus, and there should not be - everyone's perceptions is shaped by their local meta. However, only players such as the RC could make some decisions abstracted from a local meta, as it does not exist, which is vital for something that sets an example.

And ultimately, that is what the banlist is - a guidance tool nobody is obligated to follow. It provides a framework for the format that local groups can adjust to their liking. But it is a vital part of the accessability of the format - walking into a store in a different town, you want your commander deck to adhere to at least the global rules.

Yes, the RC is glacial in terms of bannings and unbannings and they make close to no sense, but it is something. And it is by far the most popular format that anyone outside of WOTC ever created, so they must be doing something right.

August 19, 2019 4:44 a.m.

dbpunk: Just cause it didn't get mentioned in the earlier responses to you... Recurring Nightmare is a repeatable reanimate that can't be interacted with except via counterspells. It is absolutely broken and definitely deserves to be on the banned list, as much as my graveyard-loving heart wishes it weren't so.

August 19, 2019 5 a.m.

StopShot says... #32

Ban Contamination and Infernal Darkness . Unless you’re playing mono-black these completely screw your manabase, and the decks that run these are too efficient at keeping them on the board or recurring them. Even if you get a mana rock out its still practically a one-sided Rule of Law . These cards might as well say, “Win the game if you play this,” because the owner will have a gross advantage in the game before it’s finally removed for good. Blood Moon and Back to Basics are bad, but Contamination should have never been printed.

August 19, 2019 7:08 a.m.

SynergyBuild says... #33

Boza So far my goal with this thread was to see if there were any bans or unbans that were uncontroversial, and so far Stasis was mentioned multiple times for a ban, no one really said it shouldn't, while Coalition Victory , Biorhythm , and Sway of the Stars also seem okay to unban. I want more data to confirm this, but this is a start to see which cards are said should be added or removed most often.

I don't plan to use this info for much, but perhaps it could help others.

August 19, 2019 7:25 a.m.

SynergyBuild: For the record I don't actually advocate for the banning of Stasis . I was just poking fun at the RC for banning Iona before it, given their line of logic in doing so. I'm generally anti-bans, but I don't play with the kind of folk who run things like Stasis anyhow.

August 19, 2019 7:57 a.m.

SynergyBuild says... #35

Tyrant-Thanatos Fair enough.

August 19, 2019 8:21 a.m.

Boza says... #36

SynergyBuild, out of 12 unique responders, 3 have mentioned some of the "big sorceries" to be unbanned. That is a low rate among a low rate of responses. This is not a method to get "uncontroversial" opinions, you will just get people venting about the worst offenders in their local meta.

Same with the unbans - people will not consider why these big sorceries are currently banned, just that they seem to be tame given their cost. The reason they are banned is that they unfairly punish players (biorhytm and Coalition Victory ) or prolong the game unnecesarily ( Worldfire and Sway of the Stars ), but these reasons are not considered or the eternal "it can be answered" is spewed out, the commander equivalent of "dies to removal".

For plantiful examples of this, lets look excerpts for dbpunk's post:

"Emrakul can be Nevermore 'd" - unban a card, because you can answer it by playing a card that bans it from the game?

" Tolarian Academy is only good if someone doesn't wipe out your artifacts. Just like Serra's Sanctuary only works if you have an abundance of enchantments or Gaea's Cradle is only horrifying if you have a ton of creatures. " - that literal Read-the-card right here that does not account for any of differences between the three cards or even attempt to explore why only one of the three is banned.

"Erayo's a vanilla 1/1 until someone casts the fourth spell of a turn and balance can be countered." - every spell can be countered, so lets unban everything.

"Prophets good, but also extremely killable and manipulatable. Same with Griselbrand. " - the literal dies to removal.

"Do these cards make gameplay difficult? Yes. But so do any number of cards when combined correctly. These just don't make you jump through as many hoops." - and then finally, a justification for why cards currently on the list are banned, just for good measure.

I do not mean to single anybody out (sorry dbpunk, but yours are just too succinct illustrations, many more answers like this are present in this thread), I just want to show that these threads cannot provide much to an actual discussion.

I would advise to take some input from here and create a separate thread for just a few of the cards - it can lead to some actual deeper discussion.

August 19, 2019 8:57 a.m.

I like the card Stasis as someone who has never played the card themselves. Its an interesting ability, and it kills itself if you dont have a deck designed to deal with breaking Untap parity incessantly somehow (Teferi being the only consistent way, Derevi can extend its existence but could afford to run different cards)

Stasis is an incessant mana sink that hinders the caster more than its opponents if you haven't built a deck properly. If you have, why take a not great tool away from a deck? You have opportunities the whole time to stop a 2 cmc every turn mana sink. Flash, on the other hand, with the EXACT SAME CMC, and multiple types of interaction at different points or a specific tool like stifle are necessary to stop, is fine apparently.

Tolarian academy would push Urza into tier 0? Or just make it even better. If PE was too great for Urza, Tolarian is like steroids. Land count drops a bit, stabbiness increases. If prophet were also unbanned, quite scary in conjunction.

Prophet, too, shouldn't be unbanned. A 5 cmc card like PE, but it does the do on its own -- Deck type is meaningless to it. Paradox engine required caring about what percentage of your deck would be castable in certain scenarios. However, it being such a hefty mana costed card, perhaps it could be briefly unbanned to see what happened lmao[no]. (Flash Grind hulk, HYAH!)

SynergyBuild sorry I was pointing out that it is a card that well represents OP card design. Life total being 40 in commander doesn't make it any crazier than the card already is was my point.

I think we would all have to list different things we thought added to the philosophy of EDH/cEDH, and that would take a while. Or we could set up strict ass rules like Modern had and just be sad for every Twin or PE incident.

August 19, 2019 11:42 a.m.

Cough and Coalition Victory is fine it doesn't punish players per se, but maybe casual players would hate it? I dont know. Not Sway of the Stars please no. 4 horseman is banned for the same reason. 12 hour games arent feasible.

Wasn't worldfire banned because of Jhoira? Float mana, wildfire comes off suspend, Shock, bolt, magma spray

Biorhythm maybe isn't that bad though. People ramp up to 8 mana on turn 3 or 4 and cast it, wham, they had a perfect hand.

I think other wincons are better than Coalition/Rhythm (bear in mind, of the 3 sorceries, I only have experience with Biorhythm, and Sway of the Stars)

Sorry for a doublepost. Mobile doesnt allow edits

August 19, 2019 11:52 a.m.

shadow63 says... #39

First off let me address the angle in the room Iona, Shield of Emeria edh is often played with 4 players but this isnt always the case even in 3 player pod if the iona player is in blue white and is playing against a mono black deck and a green black decks iona names black and shuts down one deck entirely and shuts down half of the other deck. Also it makes it so all the mono black player can do is draw their card maybe attack and pass their turn. It makes it so they're not even playing the game. I'm honestly surprised it took this long to get the ban.

Now for the topic at hand. As others have said biorythm and collation victory should be off the list. Compare them to Tooth and Nail while tooth and nail doesn't say you win its damn close. Same with Torment of Hailfire sure that takes More mana but in edh it's not hard to get up to 10 plus mana. I could go in a put a laundry list of cards that fill that role but I won't

Ban. Notion Thief how has no one mentioned him yet?! I have no doubt if it had a little "legendary " on the card he would be on the ban list instantly. With him having flash it's very easy to force everyone besides you into top deck mode. All you need is a Windfall or any other number of wheel effects. The card reminds me of Leovold, Emissary of Trest but its effect is more powerful then Leopold.

August 19, 2019 12:05 p.m.

DeinoStinkus says... #40

Ban: Aetherflux Reservoir

Reason: I completely understand that you can easily remove this, but it's a practical game ender, especially with cards like Angel's Grace and Ajani Goldmane . I doubt anyone uses it, but if they knew the stored power at their fingertips, they might.

August 20, 2019 4:03 p.m.

dbpunk says... #41

Honestly, as much as I love the card in terms of both design and power, ban Deadeye Navigator . There's so many ways to abuse it.

August 20, 2019 5:48 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #42

dbpunk, care to give insight? Blue is my weakest color. How would you abuse it? Aside from General protection I suppose? to get it out if danger seems pretty good.

August 20, 2019 6:34 p.m.

Joe_Ken_ says... #43

TypicalTimmy I think he is saying that it should be banned since normally people combo it with Peregrine Drake for infinite mana.

August 20, 2019 7:18 p.m.

Deadeye Navigator goes infinite with a lot of things, and not just infinite mana. Once it has produced that mana, it also provides the outlet to immediately end the game with said mana. Any ETB/LTB trigger that harms opponents, produces tokens, etc. will end the game from there.

DeinoStinkus: Maybe I'm completely ignorant here, but what the heck does Angel's Grace have to do with Aetherflux Reservoir ??

August 20, 2019 9:11 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #45

Tyrant-Thanatos not super useful, but technically with Angel's Grace you can ppay 50 life when at 50, going to 0, but you won't die. So it is a gain 1 life overall.

August 21, 2019 8:51 a.m.

Its more the not losing clause. Losing life makes you lose life. Angels Grace stops a large instance of damage from putting you below 1 and stops you from losing the game for that turn. I dont think that means you can pay life you don't have to Aetherflux though.

August 21, 2019 4:02 p.m.

DeinoStinkus says... #47

Well, technically, the Angel's Grace can stop you from losing the game that turn. If you have 50 life, you can use it. Although it's simply an overpowered card on its own. And in Commander, use tutors or Tinker to fetch it.

August 21, 2019 4:15 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #48

DeinoStinkus You know that is banned, right?

August 21, 2019 4:53 p.m.

My point was that Aetherflux+Angels Grace when presented as a combo would fail because you cannot pay negative life for a thing, unlike Ad Naus which loses life but not the game. Ofc using it at 50 would work. You still lose on endstep either way.

And a 2 card 5 mana combo isn't as scary as it used to be. That's why Deadeye is legal. Its a hefty cost for some hefty value.

August 21, 2019 5:02 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #50

shadow63, while I agree Notion Thief is a powerful card and can be abused, he's also a generic 3/1 with no protection. Most decks that can offer him protection can have those items removed, too.

He's hard to stop, but not impossible. Like most annoying value cards, it will stick around until it doesn't. He's not game breaking, just game slowing.

August 21, 2019 6:30 p.m.

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