Commander 2014: Awful or Awesome?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on July 31, 2014, 11:20 a.m. by capriom85
Anyone else put off by the idea that the Commander 2014 blue deck runs a Planeswalker as the general? Does this change the rules because that is going to cause some serious problems in the format if people start using JtMS and the like as generals. We are going to see an incredibly warped format...I can even see new Nissa being far too broken as a general. It would be worse than Edric's elfball. Thoughts?
BorosPlayer says... #3
It can only be your general if it says on the card. So JTMS can't be a general, or any of the Nissa's so far.
July 31, 2014 11:25 a.m.
Only certain planeswalkers will be allowed to be a commander...and they will state that..but I do think they will change the format unless they are worthless outside that role....the blue one is OP in a superfriends edh deck.
July 31, 2014 11:27 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
I have a few complaints about the C14 decks. One of which is the whole planeswalker generals thing. Another is the fact that they are mono-colored, I feel that they should have gone with allied or enemy guilds since multi-color commander is usually more fun.
The funny part is that no matter what Wizards prints on the cards they are not legal commanders unless and until the rules committee changes the rule defining what can be a commander of a deck.
July 31, 2014 11:31 a.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #6
I'm fairly certain a member of the rules committee stated he was on the design panel, and okayed the planeswalkers. Plus, with Commander now a format supported by Wizards, I feel that they can do this is they please. I for one welcome the change, and thank the Wizards gods that other 'walkers can't be used as commanders. Ones designed strictly for the set are fine by me.
July 31, 2014 11:37 a.m.
The basic rule of magic is that the card text overrides rules...which is why some. Cards can have more than 1 in a commander deck becashe they state thAt any number can be in a deck.
July 31, 2014 11:38 a.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #8
Case #1 for the override pskinn01 mentioned is Shadowborn Apostle .
July 31, 2014 11:41 a.m.
pskinn01 is correct.
Rule: You may not exceed 4 copies of any given card in a constructed deck aside from a Basic Land.
See: Ravenous Rats
It doesn't matter what the rules say about Commanders needing to be a Legendary Creature; if the PW says "can be a Commander", it can be a Commander.
But this is assuming you're playing in a competitive EDH tournament, at which point you'd just lose because everyone else is playing a good Commander. If it's around the kitchen table, for example, who cares? I know a handful of people that already use Planeswalkers for Commanders and as long as everybody agrees, then it's fine.
July 31, 2014 11:43 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #11
FFS you don't have to make the case, I know both of the cards that allow you to have more than the max number allowed by deck building rules. I just find it funny that Wizards tries to print weird stuff that can just outright banned by the governing body of the format since they don't control the format and are taking great pains to make it clear that although they support it, they don't run it.
July 31, 2014 11:45 a.m.
But the people who run EDH work with Wizards on these products from start to finish. Hell; they were probably the ones who brought this idea up in the first place.
July 31, 2014 11:50 a.m.
I don't like it. Planeswalker are harder to deal with than creatures. I can't Bant Charm Teferi back into you library
July 31, 2014 12:39 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #14
Actually they would be legal as commanders, as you always go by the oracle text of a card (unless there are rulings on the matter) when there is a conflict with game rules. So....
July 31, 2014 1:08 p.m.
While Planeswalkers are harder to deal with, the new Teferi isn't exactly going to win the game on his own. Even his ultimate ability can be played around (if you were bad enough to let him get that high in the first place).
July 31, 2014 1:41 p.m.
It just opens up the door for atuff like early game Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker if the rules change and then his +1 could be game over
July 31, 2014 2:30 p.m.
Sheldon Menery, a member of the EDH rules committee, said 2 things about the PW commanders. 1.) There is no intention of making older/newer planeswalkers legal to be commanders, only this 5 card cycle. 2.) The RC was aware that WotC was doing this b/c one of the members of the RC works for Magic R&D.
There's no need to get in a tizzy over this and let's just see what the rest of the cycle is.
July 31, 2014 2:37 p.m.
It just changes the whole format. The Commander as a PW just gives you advantages over others. Board wipes leave your general unharmed, most removal is void, I just think it warps it a bit
July 31, 2014 3:09 p.m.
Which is prob why they did mono colored planeswalkers to limit the decks power.
July 31, 2014 3:20 p.m.
Yeah the new Teferi is hardly scary enough to make people quake in their boots. And considering that using him forces you to play mono-blue, which, aside from Talrand, Sky Summoner , doesn't see much play, and you've got yourself a pretty balanced commander.
I still wish they would make 4-colour Commander decks.
July 31, 2014 3:21 p.m.
DaShPrime - Clearly you've never played against Azami, Lady of Scrolls or Arcum Dagsson before. Because they're 2 of the premier mono-blue generals.
capriom85 - Yes, but if you run a PW as a commander you can't win with Commander damage. There are drawbacks as well as bonuses. I'll just leave this link here for the Teferi thread on mtgcommander so you can see what other people think. Bottom line: Stop making mountains out of molehills.
July 31, 2014 3:24 p.m.
Well isn't JWiley129 a breath of fresh air...oh wait, just another condescending TO user that feels anything someone disagrees with that isn't on his/her radar is a waste of time. Ok, so you can't win with Commander damage...That's probably not your game plan in a deck that runs Teferi type things like that.
July 31, 2014 3:49 p.m.
wat
No one's being condescending.
And I, of all people, would know.
July 31, 2014 3:52 p.m.
capriom85 - I'm not being condescending, I'm being rational. Magic players are notorious for disliking change. While the fact we can have a Planeswalker as a commander now is something to get used to, it isn't the end of the world. I already went through the pros and cons on the thread when Teferi was spoiled but it boils down to this. A repeatable effect is good for a commander, which is why I love Vorel of the Hull Clade
, but Teferi and other planeswalkers are restricted to only your turn at Sorcery speed. This limits their ability to be abused in Commander, and the lack of a Commander Damage win makes them different.
And while many EDH decks to run win-cons outside of the Commander damage rule, Teferi himself isn't an engine. And any mono-blue deck wanting to be competitive will probably run the Blue Sun's Zenith + Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron combo anyways. Teferi by himself isn't changing the game, and he's not better than other mono-blue commanders. His Emblem is quite powerful, but limited in scope. I'd rather have him in my 99 as opposed to in my command zone.
July 31, 2014 3:58 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #25
What I like:
Having new commanders that are planeswalkers is awesome for four reasons: old ones aren't commanders now (still), these were tested as commanders extensively, we get new planeswalkers that only had to be tested in the meta game of legacy and commander (not standard or modern) which means they have the possibility of making the format faster, and it will make control strategies that affect mostly creatures require diluting their currently dominating strategy to account for cards as commanders that they may not be equipped to deal with.
None of the new cards are multicolored, so all players playing mono-color will get the possibility to want more cards from this printing.
There is a possibility for mono colored strategy support to encourage players to choose a non-multicolored commander, because having more colors is overrated (Caged Sun is a great example why, but don't forget that's it's nearly impossible to get color screwed too).
What I don't like:
These are the color combos possible in order from color combos that need more legendary creatures as options for the commander to color combos that have an abundance of legendary creatures as options for the commander: all the four color combos (obviously), jeskai & sultai & mordu (tie), temur & abzan (tie), simic, izzet & colorless (tie), orzhov & naya (tie), boros & jund & bant (tie), five-color, esper, golgari & grixis, gruul, rakdos, selesnya & dimir (tie), azorius, mono-red, mono-blue and mono-green (tie), mono-white, and lastly mono-black. (If you want the numbers for each, let me know, because hybrid commanders and commanders with their colors in their text rather than in their mana costs screw it all up).
Many players will confuse the new text to be indicative of all planeswalkers, which isn't true.
July 31, 2014 4:28 p.m.
I wonder if Caged Sun will see a shift in price with this new set? Hero's Downfall and Dreadbore could potentially see a spike if this planeswalkers as commanders format takes off.
July 31, 2014 5:36 p.m.
I highly doubt the prices of Dreadbore and Hero's Downfall will see significant changes in price just because some people will try to use one of five Planeswalkers as Commander, especially when you consider that those cards can only go into certain decks.
Beyond that, there are a ton of ways to directly destroy or exile Planeswalkers without Black.
Caged Sun might see a tiny increase, but a "spike" is out of the question.
July 31, 2014 5:52 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #28
I have to agree with JWiley129, nobody was being condescending. In addition, Teferi is absolutely not frightening as a commander on his own. And if anybody mentions that he has synergy with Doubling Season as a commander, I will shake my head.
Honestly, I'd rather run him in my 99 rather then as a commander, but I am open to the idea of a limited amount of 'walkers as commanders.
July 31, 2014 6:08 p.m.
You bring up an interesting note, though. The Mono-Green Walker will obviously have to be balanced for play with Doubling Season - though I'm sure this is something Wizards knew going into it.
July 31, 2014 6:19 p.m.
I don't care about Teferi that much as I have been too busy drooling over the new Gisa. Hopefully the other PW commanders are a bit wackier then him, because his abilities are decent, but won't be too destructive outside of Superfriends.
July 31, 2014 11:22 p.m.
Agreed; outside of EDH, if any control deck is really going to drop 6 mana on a Planeswalker, it would be for Elspeth, Sun's Champion .
And no control deck in Legacy or Vintage is going to play Elspeth, Sun's Champion .
August 1, 2014 1:10 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #32
I think planeswalkers as commanders are actually weaker than legendary creatures because opponents can kill planeswalkers without any removal just by attacking them with creatures.
August 1, 2014 5:08 a.m.
biggestmtgnerd says... #33
How is him being mono-colored a bad thing? If each color has their own specific staples, then that means that many multicolored decks would be more "good stuff" centric. This isn't always the case, but think, which commander is most often put in as the commander of a good stuff deck? Progenitus
August 2, 2014 9:54 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #34
biggestmtgnerd, when a deck is basically all of Epoch's resource's cards in the colors, you gotta wonder if the player is even marginally creative or interesting at all. /rant
August 2, 2014 7:28 p.m.
since we're getting Gisa, i really hope we see Geralf as well
August 2, 2014 7:49 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #36
Some speculate he will be in the blue deck. Personally, I feel like it's a toss up. I'm not sure either way.
HavokX says... #2
Well none of those cards have "this planeswalker can be your commander" so you're not going to see any broken planeswalker commanders, just those balanced specifically for the format.
July 31, 2014 11:25 a.m.