Blood Moon in Four-Color Mana Bases

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on Oct. 1, 2019, 4:35 a.m. by Strike_Rouge

Commanders: Tana, the Bloodsower / Tymna the Weaver (Like you had any other guesses?)

Deck variant: reanimator aristocrats

Card in question: Blood Moon

Question: How tf do you run that card outside of cEDH mana bases?

Further explanation: Running few non-basic lands is difficult in four colors. I don't run the usual cEDH mana rocks or fetch lands because my decks are only, at most, what people might call "budget cEDH" (not fully up to the "c" in "cEDH", but definitely based on cEDH counterparts). There exists Chromatic Lantern and Gilded Lotus , but to be perfectly honest, I'm not fond of either. I dislike almost any mana rock with over CMC 2 that only produces one mana per tap, and while Lotus might produce three mana, having a CMC of 5 kills it for me.

Already-brainstormed solutions:

Play cheaper (money-wise) mana rocks in place (signets, talismans, etc.).

  • One of the more viable circumventions. My only objection lies in how lands are more viable strictly in the sense that there are more ways to blow up a rock than there are for lands. Since green is involved, land ramp tutors are a thing.

"Just play x," where x =/= $100+

Chrome Mox , Bloom Tender

  • Real wallet murderers, these ones. But also super helpful; might be worth it.

Avacyn's Pilgrim , Elves of Deep Shadow , Birds of Paradise , and other dorks

  • Creatures are easily killed, and although I already planned on needing these, there's no way they can support the mana base that well.

Oracle of Mul Daya , Azusa, Lost but Seeking , Courser of Kruphix , etc.

  • Playing extra land is amazing... when there's land to play. I generally dislike playing more than 32-33 land in a deck outside of landfall (max 28- 30 colored land + fetch lands, 1-3 utility lands), so odds are moderate, but not super high. Also, again, creatures are easily killed.

Cryptolith Rite

  • The only thing on the list that might actually work consistently, is below 3 CMC, and below even $10. Bonus: explicit Enchantment removal is still barely a thing. Let's just hope a boardwipe doesn't occur.

Don't run Blood Moon

So yeah, any and all thoughts welcome.

Dango says... #2

Honestly, the "cEDH" manabase for Tymna/Tana Blood Pod is very susceptible to being hurt by its own Blood Moon and Magus. If anything, a non-cEDH variant is going to be a lot more resilient to those effects considering you're likely going to run more basic lands.

Even in Blood Pod though, Blood Moon effects are a meta call despite it being a namesake card. If you're facing lots of mono colored and two colored decks in your playgroup/metagame, running Blood Moon and Magus are going to do more harm than good to your manabase. If you're up against lots of three color or more decks, you might want to consider the inclusion.

October 1, 2019 6:14 a.m.

Strike_Rouge says... #3

That makes a great deal of sense. In researching Tana-Tymna variants, I kept consistently finding those cards in the main; putting them in the sideboard usually isn't mentioned.

Why is there a variant called Blood Pod when that card probably belongs in the sideboard?

October 1, 2019 12:05 p.m.

Dango says... #4

In commander, a sideboard doesn't really exist unless your playgroup allows for one. That being said, most cEDH metagames and playgroups don't stray from the general commander rulesets and therefore disallow a sideboard even though they're playing competitively. This is because the format is highlander, meaning we only play singleton cards rather than playsets. Adding 10-15 card sideboards in singleton can change a lot in a deck, and there's a certain charm and art form of being slot efficient while covering your grounds on all fronts in your maindeck, which is very unique to commander.

That being said, Blood Pod usually isn't played in a blind meta. Just about every paper list of Blood Pod is tuned to that player's meta. Someone playing 4c Tana/Tymna and dropping Blood Moon against Yisan and Urza isn't going to be as effective as a Blood Pod player slamming down that card against Najeela or The First Sliver for example. Knowing your meta is the most important part before you decide to slot in a hateful piece like that. The same is true for otherwise narrow cards like Carpet of Flowers , which is really good if you are playing against blue, but dead in the water if you're not.

Hope this sheds some light on the card analysis of some choices made in cEDH. Blood Pod in the general metagame of cEDH definitely looks good, but Blood Moon itself won't pull its weight if you play in a meta with an abundance of basic lands. That's the major distinction to understand here.

Of course, it doesn't sound like you're inquiring about building a cEDH variant of this deck by any means, but I think cEDH Tana/Tymna is a good reference point to understand how and why it's useful in a deck like that despite it hurting their own manabase.

October 1, 2019 1:36 p.m. Edited.

ZendikariWol says... #5

Faeburrow Elder is a huge mana source and in an aristocrat deck you can recur it.

Prophetic Prism , the Signets, and other similar effects can convert your red mana into actual mana.

October 1, 2019 1:37 p.m.

Strike_Rouge says... #6

Re: Dango

Something like that occurred to me this morning with other stax pieces as I was trying to figure out my defensive stax core. Blood Moon being as stax-y as it is, I suppose I'm not sure why that didn't connect right away with Blood Moon, too.

Re:ZendikariWol

I didn't know Elder existed; he's essentially a dual-colored 3 CMC Bloom Tender without the $40 price tag (although having both would be amazing). As for more mana rocks, I guess I might have to budge on that one in the event I go through with Blood Moon.

October 1, 2019 4:03 p.m.

dingusdingo says... #7

You've correctly identified some methods already used (signets, dorks) which are extremely common in decks. This is because they 1) ramp 2) color fix 3) spread mana across permanent types to avoid getting wiped. You should DEFINITELY run the signets/talismans and available dorks, they are so incredibly efficient at what they do and at very low real dollar cost, and are diversified to avoid getting totally wiped. I know you want more lands but also consider Armageddon only costs $4 and has already had so many printings and you will see it in competitive decks and other low-tuner competitive decks. If you run Blood Moon on a budget, absolutely run the talismans and signets I can't stress that enough.

However, being a budget boy who wants to go fast myself, I've stumbled across similar questions before, so I'm more than willing to share what I've gleaned. You pretty much want cards that WILL come down turn 1 or 2, cards that give free stuff for cheap $$$, or or pump up those basic land #'s. You may also notice that in typical Blood Pod lists, there aren't that many red cards or red mana sources, and that many of my recommendations are green. You're going to want to weight your colors so red is a smaller part and to run very few red lands because all your nonbasics become Mountains, so run your nonbasics to include a red splash and then run more forests.

Sakura-Tribe Elder

It is a Rampant Growth on legs that can block-then-sac on annoying early creatures like Tymna the Weaver . Brings you to a basic so works with BM, it can swing to get Tymna triggers. It spiked a while ago but its still decently cheap to buy.

Rampant Growth Farseek Nature's Lore

Nature's Lore is the best of these three, as the forest enters untapped and it can grab shocklands with a Forest type if you dont have BM out. Growth gives the most utility by giving you any basic land for BM. Farseek gives any but a forest, but you have to make a green to cast it so you've got at least one green somehow. These are extremely playable fixer/ramp cards on a budget and are really going to help you with a budget Blood Moon land base. I recommend these over the 3 CMC counterparts Cultivate Kodama's Reach because they come out a turn faster so far lower chance you're going to get staxed out. They curve extremely well into having 4 mana on turn 3 (Tana on turn 3?), as opposed to using all your turn 3 mana for a big turn 4. They also raise the amount of keepable hands you will have, as 2 mana + growth gets you to Tymna, while 2 mana + Cultivate is a mulligan more times. They're even enjoyable to see sometimes late game after MLD.

Arcum's Astrolabe

Insane color fixing and it cantrips, the only problem is you have to run snow-basics instead. If you happen to have enough snow basics laying around, this is a very solid bet for color fixing.

Chromatic Sphere Chromatic Star

One of these is much cheaper to purchase, so I highly recommend that one. Fixes and cantrips, you really don't mind drawing them late at all.

Springleaf Drum

Color fixer and ramper, works real well with BM. Just add creatures.

Fetchlands

If you have them, they will deck thin + get you to the correct basic land. I know fetchlands are expensive, so also consider that there is a lesser known cycle of mirage ETB tapped fetchlands, while definitely worse, are much cheaper. Sleeper cards tagged for your convenience Flood Plain Bad River Rocky Tar Pit Mountain Valley Grasslands . Also DEFINITELY run Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse if you don't already. More sleeper fetches that might interest you Krosan Verge Thawing Glaciers

Simian Spirit Guide Elvish Spirit Guide

Nice replacements for Mox Opal and Mox Diamond . They let you hit signets/talismans/growths/big dorks on turn 1. They help you escape from underneath Trinisphere or Sphere of Resistance . They are slot intensive, but with Tymna in command zone to guarantee draws I would also highly recommend these. These will be invaluable in helping you get a stronger start than more expensive opposing stax decks. They're a small hit to the wallet but once again, fraction of the price of Opal/Diamond.

Wild Growth Utopia Sprawl

I didn't see these listed in the OP or in comments, so I definitely wanted to bring them up. Work extremely well to accelerate and color fix, they also work with Blood Moon . They're enchantments so it gives extra diversity from creatures/artifacts against wipes. Works extremely well with Arbor Elf and Voyaging Satyr

Landcycling

Tutors basic land of your choice to your hand. There are a couple downsides though 1) Doesn't ramp you at all 2) Most cards with landcycling aren't very good for the actual spell. Landcycling does have a few big perks though 1) its an activated ability, which makes it MUCH harder to interact with and mostly immune to stax effects 2) minor bonus utility of actually playing the card 3) it will become a land eventually so it dodges more hate than other permanent types. This would be effective if you had other strong stax decks in your meta, or a crazy amount of counterspells, but otherwise I'd try one of the other ones I listed first.

October 1, 2019 7:42 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #8

dingusdingo, Search for Tomorrow could probably get added to that low-cost land fetching list, no?

October 1, 2019 8:12 p.m.

enpc says... #9

If you're playing in a cEDH-esque meta then you typically want to be using a heavy creature base for a deck sporting Tymna the Weaver as one of its commanders. Esepcially since you're sans blue.

Yes, creatures die to boardwipes/single target removal however I would recommend avoid the logic of "dies to removal" as a justification not to run something. At the end of the day, short of running something like a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker package in the deck, your primary win conditin is "turn sideways". That's why you want to leverage creature based ramp - those dorks will form part of your win condition.

My recommendation here would be to use dorks where possible (in combination with a few of the better mana rocks) and see how the deck goes being able to play through your own Blood Moon with that configuration. But at The end of the day, if your budget can't support it, well...

As a side note, I do think that you can make an exception for Chromatic Lantern here. No, you don't want to be paying 3 mana for a rock ideally, but you're talking budget cEDH, so the phrase "beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind somewhat.

October 1, 2019 10:58 p.m.

Strike_Rouge says... #10

I was working on my list earlier today and decided, "Alright, I suppose I can build with more dorks than I was expecting to, and maybe some rocks, and go from there." In solo playtesting, I have to admit, the deck is fast (by my standards, at least; I'm too used to Grixis). My only fear with my ramp package is that I added too much and neglected other areas of the deck; I think it's possible based on other stuff I'm seeing, but it's hard to tell.

The list (still in the prototype stages):

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tana-tymna-draft-two/

October 2, 2019 2:11 a.m.

Strike_Rouge says... #11

Re: dingusdingo

Oh yeah, I knew I forgot to add a few things when I wrote this late the other night (when I probably shouldn't have, but I'm impatient). A lot of those I was already aware of; I was working on a Ghave deck when it hit me that Ghave is too much of a straightforward combo deck at heart even when you run him in reanimator aristocrats. Some of those I wasn't aware of, however...

And I should note, when I think of a typical budget for an EDH deck that I'm used to building, I'm used to keeping things around the $500-600 mark (e.x., Sugar, Spice and Everything Nice.), but don't mind going a little higher if I own a significant chunk of the stuff already (as is the case so far with this deck, actually).

Unexplored Options (on my part)

Arcum's Astrolabe

Is it seriously that good? I hear that in modern it's been doing swimmingly well, but I haven't heard a lot on the EDH side with this thing. I rather like the draw cantrip, I'll give it that. I think I also like it over the Chromatic rocks you suggested just because I can use it repeatedly, so there's that. I'll keep it in mind.

Spirit Guides

I didn't know the Elvish Guide existed, and forgot Simian Guide was a thing. I suppose they have a leg up on Lotus Petal since they don't need to be brought into play. Between those two and Petal, I suppose it comes down to what mana I need most (everything vs. specific kinds). Again, I'll keep these tabbed.

Land Enchantments

I ran into these this morning while looking up a ruling (wasn't looking specifically at these, but they came up). I like their effects a lot compared to what they cost. Right now, the only reason they wouldn't go in is on account of deck space, but where there's a will...

October 2, 2019 3:06 a.m. Edited.

Wolfsbane706 says... #12

Am I allowed to suggest Karametra's Acolyte ? It's 4cmc, but personally the Devotion effect makes it worth the relatively high cmc due to just how much that mana stacks up. You just need three other green mana symbols on the field (easy to do) and it's already paid for itself. The hard part would be keeping it alive long enough to make use of its mana generation or even just keeping it in general.

Then again, I don't know a thing about cEDH so feel free to take my suggestion with a grain of salt.

October 2, 2019 7:13 p.m.

dingusdingo says... #13

Astrolabe is surprisingly good. Its worth running if you have enough snow basics. Compare it to Chromatic Star which sees play, and you'll like it. It gives 8 in hand starting turn 2 after dropping turn 1, while Chromatics give 7 in hand starting turn 2. If you aren't getting value from recurring the Chromatics to draw, then Astrolabe is worlds ahead.

The spirit guides are real nice, and they give some turn 1 or 2 explosiveness

Highly recommend the wild growths. They're like turn 1 dorks without summoning sickness who are removed by far fewer things than regular turn 1 dorks.

Search for Tomorrow is similar to Rampant Growth in that you will have 4 mana on turn 3 assuming land drops. It has the unfortunate drawback of being susceptible to taxing stax effects, so pass this over if you're running cost enhancers or expecting to play decks that do.

Karametra's Acolyte is pretty rad, but not helpful early. Swallow your pride and get Priest of Titania for $5, it plays in many cEDH builds so its a cheap worthwhile staple. Acolyte is helpful if your deck wants to hit infinite mana with an untapper and big dorks, but those lists will already recommend running Acolyte anyways. Not going to help you against Trinisphere and friends as much as you're picturing.

I also agree that if you have a Chromatic Lantern you should run it. While a 3 rock isn't ideal, the colorfixing that happens even after BM is fantastic. Not as many keepable hands as 2 rocks but there's trade offs to everything I suppose.

October 2, 2019 8:45 p.m.

Strike_Rouge says... #14

Re: dingusdingo

I'm struggling to find room for all of these. Any ideas on substitutes?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tana-tymna-draft-two/

October 3, 2019 3:48 p.m.

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