wich commander should i pick?

Commander Deck Help forum

Posted on Sept. 15, 2015, 8:37 a.m. by edrm

Hello guys... I already hace a talrand commander... But i want to build another deck to go more competitive... But the thing is... That I don't have much money at this moment... So... Which creature should I use as my commander and how can I build a budget deck... That could be competitive... And which in the future I could buy some expensive cards to improve it... Thanks guys!

Boza says... #2

Well, the commander is just 1 card out of 100. It does not necessarily have to do anything.

Every single commander can be competitive, depending on the 99 cards and the level of competition. There is no list of best commanders ever.

We need pointers - what do you want to do in commander?

September 15, 2015 9:20 a.m. Edited.

guessling says... #3

Are you looking for a commander that is competitive in 1v1 or multiplayer?

September 15, 2015 9:43 a.m.

edrm says... #4

Well I want a commander that could be competitive in 1v1... And... It would be cool if at least the commander could do something I the deck

September 15, 2015 9:59 a.m.

edrm says... #5

In the deck*

September 15, 2015 9:59 a.m.

enpc says... #6

Competitive is a very sliding scale. What some players call competitive, others will call casual etc. What level of competitive play are you talking about?

Also, what kind of deck are you after? Control? Aggro? Combo? Beat down?

I think you'll be able to get the biggest bang for buck out of a combo deck. Usually you don't have to drop a lot on the pieces (depending on the combo of course) and then you can pad the rest of the deck out for combo support.

September 15, 2015 10:46 a.m.

edrm says... #7

I'm looking for something like combo-control... That could do stand against animar and uril... Or at least resist against them a little bit xP

September 15, 2015 11:01 a.m.

trollslayer says... #8

oloro is the most fun commander i have played with in awhile. it can stand its own, and the combo Tainted Remedy and the Beacon of Immortality.

September 15, 2015 11:34 a.m.

The commander with the most fun will always be old school Nicol Bolas from the Legends set.

September 15, 2015 12:47 p.m.

NarejED says... #10

@ Boza:

List one: EDH Generals by Tier

List Two: TopCommander EDH Generals by Tier

Both are flawed, but they give a rough idea of what the best commanders to play are.

Somewhat more on topic: I've found that Brago, King Eternal makes a pretty solid choice for players on a budget. The truly tier 1 list runs several budget-breaking cards, but for those most part they can all be replaced by cheaper, slightly weaker versions.

sample deck:


I Don't Mean to Brago, But... Playtest

Commander / EDH NarejED

SCORE: 2 | 2 COMMENTS | 261 VIEWS


Nearly everything in the above list that costs over 20$ can be boarded out for cheaper alternatives. I haven't made the budget version of that deck yet, but by my calculations, you should be able to create a competitive version of it for under 300$ mid.

September 15, 2015 5:22 p.m.

enpc says... #11

Ahh yes, the old "Which tier is commander XYZ?". I would like to quickly address this.

First of all, the TopCommander list is crap and should not be taken seriously by anyone. I say this only because the person who wrote the list shows their ineptitude when it comes to applying logic. They mention that cards like Maelstrom Wanderer are bad since you need to get lots of mana to play things and especcialy things like Tooth and Nail yet will say that a similar control deck which uses Tooth and Nail to win is tier one or whatever. The logic is bad and it just shows lack of experience on the author's behalf.

But on a more holistic viewpoint, people need to get over the idea to tiers when it comes to both decks and especailly commanders. Sure, they help a bit when dealing with very linear formats like modern / legacy where a deck fits into a build almost card for card, however commander is a completely different beast. Not only are decks much more tailored to meta (which is super important) but realistically you can make just about any deck work to a certain extent. And if your win condition is Tooth and Nail into Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron or Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion then the whole tier by commander thing is thrown out the window. It more boils down to "can I run TaN?"

Sure, I understand that some commanders will just be better than others (see cards like The Lady of the Mountain) however trying to quantify that with a clean cut tier system that is especially dicatated by one or two individuals is pointless. And in my (and a lot of other very experienced player's) eyes you just look like an idiot pretending to be smart when the words "commander tiers" are mentioned.

As for dealing with Animar, Soul of Elements or Uril The Mist Stalker, yo uhave two options - either try and slow them down or just win first.

For the combo control route I would recommend any of:

Riku of Two Reflections, Damia, Sage of Stone, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Prime Speaker Zegana, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Brago, King Eternal, Zur the Enchanter, Sharuum the Hegemon, Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind or Oloro, Ageless Ascetic as a good place to start.

For pure unadulterated combo I would recommend:

Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Ghave, Guru of Spores, Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Karador, Ghost Chieftain, Krenko, Mob Boss, Marath, Will of the Wild, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Narset, Enlightened Master, Maelstrom Wanderer, Maelstrom Wanderer, Maelstrom Wanderer or Maelstrom Wanderer. There are a few others as well like Maelstrom Wanderer.

September 15, 2015 9:06 p.m. Edited.

Just going to weigh in here and say that Prime Speaker Zegana is a lovely commander if you want to play a control deck. can do a lot of crazy things in commander and is a fairly resilient colour pair in the format.

September 15, 2015 10:03 p.m. Edited.

enpc says... #13

Another one that I forgot to add to the list is Sliver Queen. While the mana base is a bit more expensive, she has the potential to be a very powerful combo general if you don't build her as yet another sliver tribal deck.

Also, I should proably state that the comment before was not to try and curb-stomp anybody's feelings/magic ability/whatever. But I can't stress this enough - trying to apply a tier system to commander is a bad idea.

September 15, 2015 10:08 p.m.

Fleetwood-Mat says... #14

Commander is an eternal format, and allows cards that go all the way back to the beginning of Magic. If you look at the top tier vintage and legacy decks, they are mainly UB control decks. Commander is very similar in this sense, the best decks have either blue, black or both in them.

Black gives you access to awesome tutors like Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal as well as all the best reanimate spells, some of the best enchantments in the game and awesome mid range mana ramp with cards like Cabal Coffers, Crypt Ghast, Nirkana Revenant and Lake of the Dead. Black also has one of the best commander staples there is in Yawgmoth's Will. Black also has many different hard/soft lock combos to work with if what you intend to do is lock your opponents out of the game. It's a very versatile colour with very powerful staple cards.

Blue has most of the best combo cards like Mind Over Matter, Omniscience, Deadeye Navigator and Hive Mind as well as all the best staple counterspells and delay tactics like Force of Will, Cyclonic Rift, Pact of Negation and Desertion. Blue also has many ways to copy stuff, steal stuff (Bribery) and be more reactive rather than proactive. The two colours together are easily the most powerful two colours in the format.

I suggest if you are making a commander deck, use one or both of those colours in it, you'll be much better off against other competitive commander decks.

September 15, 2015 10:14 p.m.

NarejED says... #15

@ enpc If the tier list holds true 90% or more of the time, no harm done. We've got established decklists by tier in Legacy, Modern, and just about every other widely played eternal format. EDH is no different, save for a small amount of added complexity.

Also, Maelstrom Wanderer really isn't that great. While I disagree with the person who runs Topcommander on several things, that definitely isn't one of them. Wanderer wants to play an aggressive zoo-style creature deck, yet he costs eight mana. Even with stellar ramp, he'll rarely touch board before turn three (the turn aggressive decks should be winning on in a vacuum), and with no ingrained protection to speak of, it's unlikely he'll manage to swing more than once if he resolves. The threat generation is nice, since he can hit any number of powerful spells. But unless you do some serious deck stacking with Scroll Rack or a similar effect and cascade into a two card win-condition he doesn't accomplish a whole lot. Animar and Riku are both far, far superior commanders for Temur.

The guy's reasoning behind Tooth and Nail probably related to aggro / combo vs control curves. The former wants to win as fast as possible, while the latter wants to stall out the games a few extra turns while it either builds up to its own win condition or completely shuts down the board with stax strategies. Tooth and Nail is indeed overcosted for decks that want to combo out immediately. However, in control-oriented decks, it makes for a reliable win condition, since it's able to guarantee a win through any number of two-creature combos. So, yes, the logic doesn't apply because you're shifting from one deck archetype to another. The same way you wouldn't run a Goblin Guide in a Grixis control deck, or Inferno Titan in mono red burn. At least, I hope that's the guy's reasoning. It would be pretty sad if someone who spends 8+ hours a day tinkering with decks was completely clueless on it.

And yeah, I agree with Fleetwood-Mat. Green, Black, and Blue are typically more useful for deck building if you're looking purely at value (green for ramp and big ugly creatures, black for tutoring and graveyard shenanigans, blue for hard control and draw, as a general rule).

September 15, 2015 11:16 p.m.

enpc says... #16

NarejED: The reason we can have so clear cut X beats Y and Y beats Z lists in 60 card formats is because as a general rule, the archetypes are so clearly defined. It's not combo control, it's Twin or Grixis Twin. It's not aggro, its RDW or affinity. Midrange is CoCo or Abzan or B/W tokens. And for the most part, these decks will look (with the exceptions of a few cards here and there) the ame from deck to deck. Whereas I can have a slightly different build of the same commander and all of a sudden the deck plays VERY differently. All of a sudden the predefined X beats Y is thrown out the window because I run something slightly different.

I do think there is some harm done having a tier list, becasue it lets people be lazy in assumptions. It means that I'm not making judgement calls based off the information in from of me but instead I have a very clear if thing do thing. Andthat can be dangerous. I know that Sharuum the Hegemon is a powerful deck. I don't need a tier list to tell me that. But if I can see a Sharuum deck stalling, my reaction will be different if I use my experience than if I just say "well the tier list says she's good so I have to kill her" while losing to the actual threat on the table. As I said, it makes for lazy decisions.

As for Maelstrom Wanderer, Te reason I so highly recommend him is becasue I've seen what he can do. Very few decks can actually win the game turn 3, aggro decks included. And more than that most decks still can't do it consistently. Short of a gods hand, you won't even be casting Uril The Mist Stalker until turn 3 and then you have 3 other players you need to deal 21 damage to. That's going to take you a few turns.

I have seen Maelstrom Wanderer decks cast their general turn 3 no problem. and the if it's killed then they cast him again turn 4/5. The fact of the matter is, they're gaining so much advantage over you that it's very hard to keep up. A good Maelstrom Wanderer deck is a thing to fear. As much, if not more that Narset or Uril.

Riku is good as a combo control commander but he's much more fragile. And Animar decks are nice but often require 3/4 piece to make them combo properly. Which makes them easier to shut down.

September 15, 2015 11:43 p.m.

NarejED says... #17

enpc True, there are many different ways to build a commander deck. However, given a giant budget and enough time, most decks eventually end up looking similar. There are a few exceptions. Zur the Enchanter can play either control or Ad Nauseam combo quite well. However, as a general rule, competitive decks running the same commander usually play quite similarly. IE, Narset lists almost always end up running a combo-oriented list with tons of extra turns and combat phases, Animar will invariably play low-curve mana accelerators and replacers into the dreaded Imperial Recruiter chain, and Derevi will probably find herself locking down the board with stax tools.

Regarding paragrpah three: The lists I've played for Narset, Prossh, and Mimeoplasm all indeed win consistently by turn three when piloted correctly. 'Tis why they're consider top tier. It is true that very few decks can win by turn three. That's why its one of the criteria many use to separate the men from the boys, so to speak. Uril definitely is not Tier 1. He's strong, but like you said, he has to somehow manage to dodge board wipes and other hate while he tries to kill an entire table. No easy task under normal circumstances.

Also, would you mind possibly finding a link to a good Maelstrom deck? I'd like to test it against a few decks to see how well it performs. I haven't seen / used it since it was cut from my Animar list, and I'd like to see how a deck specifically built around it operates.

Somewhat relevant to the discussion: Various aforementioned deck lists.

Live long and Prosshper

Muscle Plasm

Narset's Face-Wrecking Turn Fest

September 16, 2015 12:08 a.m.

edrm says... #18

Guys... You convince me with the B/U/G thing... Also i Just realized that i have a Sidisi from ktk... Do u thing that he could be a good choice? How?

September 16, 2015 12:09 a.m.

NarejED says... #19

@edrm. Sidisi is alright. Her effect isn't that amazing by itself, but if you're running a Reanimator-type deck, she provides useful support. Damia, Sage of Stone and The Mimeoplasm are the premiere Sultai commanders though. Tasigur, the Golden Fang is also marginally better than Sidisi due to his ability to be easily cast and his interaction with the graveyard. If you're in a less competitive meta, Sidisi can still be a lot of fun though. Even if you don't end up relying on her much, you can pack the deck full of Sultai good stuff.

September 16, 2015 12:16 a.m.

enpc says... #20

NarejED: It's true that there are a lot of similarities between decks of the same commander at high levels of play, yes. I'll agree with you there. But yo uwill still notice a higher prevalence of "meta dependent" cards. For example, mt Saffi Eriksdotter deck is the only one I've seen on T/O that runs Jester's Cap.

As for the decks, I don't doubt that they CAN win on turn 3, but you need a god hand against a fishbowl to do it most of the time. My Damia, Sage of Stone deck CAN win on turn 3. Will it? probably not. And it's the same boat with a lot of the decks youv'e listed.

Please don't get me wrong, they're all solid build which will be very fast, but how often have you had a game where you were able to pull out a turn 3 win compared with maybe a turn 5/6 win? ANd as for The Mimeoplasm deck, thats just Hermit Druid in general and a bit of an exception to the rule :P

edrm: I'm pretty sure Sidisi is a she. But yeah, she's ok. The better choice is still Tasigur, the Golden Fang as a combo control based deck though. He needs less pieces to work and provides recursion inherently which makes him very strong.

September 16, 2015 12:22 a.m.

enpc says... #21

Oh, and as for the Maelstrom Wanderer decklist, it belongs to one of the guys who I play EDH with. I don't think he has an online copy of it, but I'll ask him.

The other thing is, he's a damned good magic player in general, which is why combined with the deck it's terrifying to play against.

September 16, 2015 12:45 a.m.

Fleetwood-Mat says... #22

Honestly, I think Green is a little unnecessary in EDH. You can get mana ramp without it just fine, and it is an extremely linear colour (no counterspells, very little removal, no boardwipes and also extremely weak against flying creatures). If you want to splash green with other colours, I think Bant (WUG) is your best option, hence why Derevi is such a good commander. B/G combos have little mana ramp cohesion because black ramps better for itself than for any other colour, and Green ramp doesn't help you abuse the powerful black cards you're gonna be running. Most good black cards require 2 black to cast, while white and blue were designed to be better combined with other colours.

Instead of BUG, I would consider Esper UBW as a much better option, because green doesn't offer much in the way of control, and is not at all a reactive colour. White offers control to help with a reactive type deck. My brother runs Oloro, and his deck is basically a legacy control deck with all the staples. It's just stacked with all the good boardwipes, the best counterspells and all the tutors that those colours offer. It's one of the most powerful commander decks you can really make.

September 18, 2015 5:09 p.m.

This discussion has been closed