What to remove, Red White EDH

Commander Deck Help forum

Posted on Oct. 17, 2017, 12:17 a.m. by zretrareo27

EDH Brion Stoutarm R/W, Fury and Wrath

I have purchased the following cards:

Fellwar Stone replaces?

Open the Armory replaces?

Commander's Sphere replaces?

Armillary Sphere replaces?

Quarantine Field replaces?

Weathered Wayfarer instead of Sunforger

Recruiter of the Guard instead of Taj-Nar Swordsmith

Warped Landscape instead of Stone Quarry

Help me decide what to remove!Other suggestions are welcome too. Thanks!

zretrareo27 says... #2

Also, Mind Stone - What should I replace?

October 17, 2017 12:23 a.m.

miracleHat says... #4

Do not use Armillary Sphere. Sunforger is one of red/white's best cards in edh. Not using it is a mistake. All of the cards that you list under 'tempo' save Sol Ring, Skullclamp, and maybe Magus of the Wheel should probably be replaced.

October 17, 2017 4:01 a.m.

zretrareo27 says... #5

I feel like you are trolling me.

October 17, 2017 1:07 p.m.

K34 says... #6

Legit, Armillary Sphere is not really good.

October 17, 2017 3:04 p.m.

miracleHat says... #7

I mean, your custom categories make the decklist extremely difficult to follow... You have a category listed angels, and then there are angel creatures outside of the 'angel' category. As for your 'tempo' cards:
Avarice Amulet is a lackluster equipment that gives negligible p/t buff, limited draw potential, and not worth spending a 6 total mana to cast and equip.
Conqueror's Galleon  Flip is a horrible creature, 2/10 is nothing but worthless. Needing to be crewed is just insult to injury. The flip side land is not worth it (6 mana Regrowth + Jayemdae Tome is bad).
Humble Defector would be fine, except that it is weak and gives your opponent card advantage.
Inheritance's ability is overcosted. You do not have enough ramp in the deck to have 3 mana left over to also utilize that enchantment effectively.
Magus of the Wheel is risky, like all a-symmetrical cards. You're opponent might end up better than you and you have no way to mitigate any bonuses that your opponent(s) would receive.
Well of Lost Dreams (forgot that brion had lifelink*), Sol Ring, and Skullclamp are all good cards that enhance the deck. The other 5 cards listed do not (as stated above).

Cards that you need to at least 'consider' adding:
better removal, i.e. keep Angel of Serenity (do not remove it ever), but find room for Wear / Tear, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Wrath of God, and/or maybe Austere Command.
Lightning Greaves, Sword of Feast and Famine/Sword of Light and Shadow, and or Loxodon Warhammer to make your artifact/equipment tutors viable once Sunforger is already in play/hand.
As mentioned previously you have minimal ramp, and this is a serious problem. Sol Ring, Boros Signet, Pearl Medallion, and Land Tax should all be considered. If you are interested in more explosive plays, Neheb, the Eternal, Seething Song, Pyretic Ritual, and Vessel of Volatility (and such forms of fast mana) would be worthy of consideration.

So: I wonder if I am trolling you or just giving advice that you do not wish to hear?

October 17, 2017 4:19 p.m.

zretrareo27 says... #8

I've just had quite a few people tell me that Sunforger is a waste of space in this deck, and all I've heard so far is add tempo add ramp, then you come in a tell me that my tempo cards I do have are garbage without giving suggestions until the second post. That's why I figured you were trolling me.Mostly it was just the "don't do this" without anything backing it up that made me question it. Thank you for replying with some suggestions.

October 17, 2017 10:02 p.m.

zretrareo27 says... #9

I've not played it out, but Conqueror's Foothold  Flip has good synergy in this deck, plus I can always tap my commander to make it a creature and transform it. Comparing anything in red to Regrowth would be silly if you judge by the mana costs. We will see how it truly functions when I play it.

Humble Defector I have played many times, and it works excellent. In 2 player, it's guaranteed card draw. In multi, it normally fledges allegiances with another player, which helps buy time. What I've found is it's always way more advantageous to me to draw cards than anyone I am up against, save mono-red.

What is it about Armillary Sphere that isn't good? Haven't played it. Helps thin the deck and get cards in my hand. Doesn't allow adding more than one per turn. Good late game to use the ability. What's your reasons?

October 17, 2017 10:10 p.m.

Razulghul says... #10

I'd keep Magus of the Wheel and Humble Defector for sure. I don't think it's hard to weigh the risk vs. reward associated with these cards when you are top decking, which happens in boros occasionally. You more than likely have the worst draw at any table anyway in my experience.

That said don't discount Sunforger, it's card advantage too. You will want like 7 targets though if you include it, Boros Charm, Return to Dust, Swords to Plowshares etc.

October 17, 2017 10:37 p.m.

zretrareo27 says... #11

I think I'm going to remove Sunforger, as much as I like it as a card, I don't want to rework my deck to work around it. Here's what I've so far come up with as outliers in my deck.

Avarice Amulet is expensive. I need a good draw card to replace it, maybe an artifact? Suggestions welcome. Boros sucks for draw. Same with Inheritance. It's good in theory, but when I get done playing a creature, and casting Threaten and activating Fling on Brion Stoutarm I'm likely to be out of mana.

Taj-Nar Swordsmith is essentially a 5 mana to find Skullclamp. Feel like it's wasted space.

Yosei, the Morning Star A generally awesome card, but it's death effect doesn't make a huge impact most of the time, even if I'm tapping their lands etc.

Heart-Piercer Manticore is very cool, but there's no reason for him to be in here if I am already sac'ing creatures to Brion Stoutarm.

Kami of Ancient Law is probably unneeded and would be better used for ramp. Thinking about removing Keening Apparition and Reckless Reveler as well, but am afraid of not having enough removal.

October 17, 2017 10:51 p.m.

Razulghul says... #12

Reforge the Soul, Bygone Bishop, Mentor of the Meek and Runehorn Hellkite are budget options. From there you start to get into Mind's Eye, Wheel of Fortune or Land Tax+Scroll Rack.

October 18, 2017 12:17 a.m.

zretrareo27 says... #13

I can probably work up to Mind's Eye at the least. Reforge the Soul is good too. Even the hellkite is worth thinking about. Thank you!

October 18, 2017 12:25 a.m.

Razulghul says... #14

No problem, a few I forgot: Chandra Ablaze, Outpost Siege, Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Chandra, Flamecaller. Ablaze is probably my favorite out of these tbh.

October 18, 2017 1:16 a.m.

zretrareo27 says... #15

I'm assuming you choose Khans for Outpost Siege? When the effect ends, if the card isn't cast, then it stays in exile?

October 18, 2017 1:20 a.m.

Razulghul says... #16

Correct, it's slow and not great but when you only have so many options on a budget it is not a bad idea.

October 18, 2017 2:58 a.m.

zretrareo27 says... #17

Also looking at

Thaumatic Compass  Flip

Primal Amulet  Flip

Treasure Map  Flip

What would I remove for these?

October 18, 2017 1:36 p.m.

zretrareo27 says... #18

I went through and made some huge adjustments, here's what I'm thinking.

RW EDH Revised Brion

Plase let me know what you think. Lots more ramp, better mana balance. Haven't gotten most of the cards yet to make this. As I get them, if this works I will update the existing deck and delete this one linked here.

October 19, 2017 2:41 p.m.

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