Regarding Paradox Engine...
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on March 18, 2018, 7:01 a.m. by BMHKain
Firstly, I'vs joined the "Tetsuko-chan" Train as I'm revising a deck of mine...
Now for the real topic: Suppose I had Paradox Engine in play, and some Mana Rocks to boot. If I played a spell like, well, in this case: Cloud of Faeries with just my rocks, would the rocks auto-untap after playing that card? & If so, would the same case apply when playing Paradox Engine? Also, could a combo requiring Blinking such as Paradox Engine + Nephalia Smuggler + Sky Diamond + Mana Vault & a target for Smuggler untap both Untap Smuggler, & (Pretty sure what was here was already answered, but I'd like a simplification about Said Rocks.). Also, Do Rocks like Sky Diamond & Coldsteel Heart & other cards entering play tapped auto-untap via Engine?
Finally, this is optional, but what stuff would you recommend for my Tetsuko deck? I currently need to cut some to 100 BTW.
Thanks again for any answers! :)
EDIT: Deck link didn't come up... X/
So in answer to your first question, Paradox Engine's ability goes on the stack in respect new to you casting a spell. So if you cast Cloud of Faeries, engine would trigger and assuming no other spells/abilities, engine's ability would resolve first and then your spell would.
March 18, 2018 8:08 a.m.
hookedonkronix says... #4
And to answer the second part of your question, if I'm reading it right, Paradox Engines ability would not trigger when it is played initially.
March 18, 2018 8:39 a.m.
So, to put it simply, Rocks like Sol Ring & Chrome Mox would untap? Maybe I should look up how the Stack works on MTG Wiki? Starting to believe Paradox Engine should be banned for allowing a wide array of loops... :/
March 18, 2018 8:47 a.m.
@all: Ninja'd... PX
And hookedonkronix, I believe you read right. I just need/want the first answer simplified. I'll look up how the stack works later, but how, I haven't an idea... Can't believe I like Commander/EDH but knows little about something involved in ALL Formats... DX
Back on topic now...
March 18, 2018 8:54 a.m.
Playing Paradox Engine won't trigger its ability - the trigger is on cast. That means that by the time it resolves and enters the battlefield, the time for the trigger has already passed.
Yes, Paradox Engine is a very good card - there's an entire EDH archetype built around it (well it's an adaptation on storm at least). No, I don't the no it's banworthy, after all it needs a decent amount of support to make it work.
On the issue of the stack - you should absolutely learn how it works, it's an integral part of the game and what really separates MTG from a lot of other card games.
I would recommend having a Google about FILO, first in last out, which is what the stack is. It's also got many uses in computing in general and is the basis behind even something as simple as a pile of papers on one's desk.
March 18, 2018 10:23 a.m. Edited.
@enpc: I see... Well, I'll consider that soon enough. Thanks.
Just added two more questions out of the blue. After that, I'll probably put this epic to rest... How The Stack works would be a decent idea to put on a Vegas GP-legal Playmat... (IMO)
(Never been to Vegas though... X/)
March 18, 2018 10:53 a.m.
Anything for questions 3 & 4? Also want some cuts in the link on Post 2... Thanks again!
March 18, 2018 12:27 p.m.
BMHKain Regarding your last two questions, blink abilities do no not trigger Paradox Engine, as the trigger is only on cast. A "blinked" card is not cast again. For your last question, casting one of those rocks with Paradox Engine on the field does not cause them to uptap, as the untap trigger is on cast, at which point the casted rock is not on the field. However, if one was already in play and you cast the other, the one in play would untap.
March 18, 2018 12:54 p.m.
@zwells3: I see. Very well. I'll see what other P1, T1, or 1/1 Options I can find. Good thing the Magosi, the Waterveil combo is still in tact, I mean, I do have Snow-Covered Islands, & Cloud of Faeries is ETB based... So there's still hope yet for that... I just need something besides Nephalia Smuggler...
March 18, 2018 1:16 p.m.
Found one. Tradewind Rider. One last question. What 6 cards to cut for the legal 100, including Tetsuko? Think about this for a bit...
March 18, 2018 1:50 p.m.
One card down. 5 to go. Maybe I should get rid of some Counterspells? I'll probably remove smuggler...
March 18, 2018 3:01 p.m.
hookedonkronix says... #14
Coldsteel Heart enters the battlefield tapped. The effect of the paradox engine would not untap it because it hasn't entered play when paradox engines ability triggers. The stack would look like this:
Tap 2 land > Play Coldsteel Heart > Paradox Engine's ability triggers
And the stack plays in reverse, so Paradox Engine's triggered ability would untap all non land permanents first, then coldsteel heart would enter the battle field.
March 18, 2018 11:57 p.m.
hookedonkronix says... #15
Coldsteel Heart enters the battlefield tapped. The effect of the paradox engine would not untap it because it hasn't entered play when paradox engines ability triggers. The stack would look like this:
Tap 2 land > Play Coldsteel Heart > Paradox Engine's ability triggers
And the stack plays in reverse, so Paradox Engine's triggered ability would untap all non land permanents first, then coldsteel heart would enter the battle field.
March 18, 2018 11:58 p.m.
@hookedonkronix: Well, playing another nonland card could subside the ETBT side effect. That's why I kept it. Any ideas for other cuts? Just replaced a combo with a new one...
March 19, 2018 12:38 p.m.
hookedonkronix says... #17
yeah, once the heart is in play it would be untapped with an additional spell played.
March 19, 2018 11:54 p.m.
Now what to do for cuts... Just started a Firesong and Sunspeaker CEDH deck...
March 20, 2018 9:59 a.m.
As of now, I need 7 cuts for the legal 100 for my Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive deck. Any suggestions? I'll do the same request for my Firesong and Sunspeaker deck...
BMHKain says... #2
Tetsu-Ko, Traitor Prince(SS?) to a Band of Wastes.
Hoping the link works for aforementioned deck now...
March 18, 2018 7:59 a.m.