Ramos & Kraj
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 11, 2017, 10:54 p.m. by cloudsol
I've heard conflicting rulings involving Ramos, Dragon Engine & Experiment Kraj. Does Kraj inherit "activate this ability only once each turn" from Ramos?
I believe your judgement is correct as well, but I'd like to make sure. Thanks, Steelspike.
Does anyone disagree?
October 11, 2017 11:15 p.m.
I, too, could be wrong, but wouldn't the "once each turn" be part of the ability? It's not like Kraj only gains part of the ability, he gains the whole thing.
If you had a Royal Assassin, he would still only be able to kill tapped creatures, for example.
October 12, 2017 7:16 a.m.
I would imagine it works the same way as Mairsil, the Pretender with a caged Quicksilver Elemental. If that's the case, then yes, it gets the once per turn clause as well.
October 12, 2017 8:13 a.m.
But Mairsil, the Pretender is explicit with "you may activate each of those abilities only once each turn," whereas Experiment Kraj is not explicit. Also, the real question I think is whether "activate this ability..." on Ramos, Dragon Engine is APART of said "ability" or just an additional rule to the card itself. From what I know Ramos, Dragon Engine is formatted as "cost" : "effect" ... "additional rules."
October 12, 2017 10:57 a.m.
I guess it is part of the ability because otherwise it would be an additional "static ability" on Ramos stating sth like "Activated abilities of this permanent can only be activated once each turn.".
Experiment Kraj simply has all activated abilities of creatures with +1/+1 counters, so it also has all restrictions those abilities impose upon themselves.
Mairsil, the Pretender does the same but the ability on Mairsil restricts the activation, not the original.
October 12, 2017 11:22 a.m.
Also, regarding Royal Assassin, the cost would be and the effect would be "destroy target tapped creature." Nothing ambiguous here. :)
October 12, 2017 11:22 a.m.
I realized there might be a misunderstanding: Do you want to know whether Experiment Kraj can trigger the ability if it was already triggered by Ramos, Dragon Engine?
If so, the answer is probably yes, because Kraj has a similar but not the same ability. In other words: you can, because Ramos abilitiy only cares about itself, not any copies of it.
October 12, 2017 11:51 a.m.
The question came from me hoping I could activate Kraj's copy an arbitrary amount of times per turn. ;)
October 12, 2017 11:56 a.m.
Unless you create an arbitrary amount of creatures with the ability it's probably no. I am not sure what would happen if you'd Flicker Kraj and somehow restore it's counters.
October 12, 2017 12:20 p.m.
If Mairsil, the Pretender himself restricted the abilities, then using a caged Quicksilver Elemental's ability to copy his own activated abilities would not produce abilities that also can only be activated once per turn. But, it does. What Mairsil does then, is essentially add a once-per-turn-clause to the abilities of his caged cards.
Which means, since giving himself those abilities by way of a different ability still makes them once-per-turn, the same would reasonably be true for any other ability that gives something the once-per-turn ability of another thing. So Experiment Kraj would therefore not be able to activate a the ability borrowed from Ramos, Dragon Engine more than once each turn.
October 12, 2017 5:53 p.m.
You're saying that the interaction between Mairsil, the Pretender and Quicksilver Elemental would produce a similar interaction between Ramos, Dragon Engine and Experiment Kraj?
October 13, 2017 5:19 p.m.
The reverse.
Experiment Kraj and Ramos, Dragon Engine should work the same way as Mairsil, the Pretender caging Quicksilver Elemental.
Which is what I was saying quite plainly in both of my posts. Reading comprehension.
October 13, 2017 5:51 p.m.
So first off, this belongs in the rules Q&A section. Second of all, it's about how the abilities are worded.
Ramos has two abilities (ignoring flying). The first is a triggered ability that puts counters on him, the second is an activated ability with a restriction. But it's important to note that the restriction is part of the ability, not it's own separate ability.
This means that Kraj would have the ability in its entirity. While you could remove counters from Kraj for mana, you could also only do it once a turn.
October 14, 2017 6:12 p.m.
Lmao @kanokarob there's nothing plain about your explanation, except that you're a plain dick about a board game made of paper.
I'm done with this thread now. Thanks.
October 14, 2017 9:41 p.m.
Glad to be of help.
I wish you luck discerning directness from maliciousness in the future.
Steelspike says... #2
If I read your question correctly, Kraj only gains activated abilities. Not those abilities restrictions.
Kraj isn't a copy, nor does it say it gains all abilities. Therefore, to me, it doesn't inherit the restriction, as it's not an activated ability.
I might be wrong, and it's highly possible I am, but I don't think I am.
October 11, 2017 11:11 p.m.