Need to pick a high-powered commander!
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 22, 2015, 11:27 a.m. by ComradeJim270
Since I tend to play EDH in "pick-up games" with no consistent playgroup, I've had a problem lately where my decks just can't hold up in some groups.
In order to actually stand a chance when I end up in this situation, I want to build a new deck that's slightly below a competitive (i.e. reliable turn three locks/wins) power level. Enough to handle anything I'm likely to encounter but still give opponents a chance. This requires I spend a lot of money, so I want to be sure to pick a commander that can get there and that I'll enjoy playing.
Here's the ones that have caught my eye:
- Alesha, Who Smiles at Death has a ton of creature-based combo potential, is in white and black, is a FRF khan (which appeals to me for sentimental reasons), and plays with small creatures. Each of those is a big plus in my book. If I can make this really powerful she's my number one choice. Can an Alesha deck reliably win on a short clock?
- Ghave, Guru of Spores is also in colors I really like and is a combo engine. He's definitely powerful but not unreasonable. But a lot of people I play with run Abzan combo already, so that's kind of awkward.
- Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar can effectively dig for combo pieces and do some cool shenanigans. I'm not sure what else I'd do with it. Mono-blue isn't usually my thing but it's interesting. It begs the question of why I don't just play Azami (answer: I'm tired of seeing her). I worry I'd get bored just durdling and digging for the same few combos. But Tomorrow still keeps catching my eye.
- Tasigur, the Golden Fang is the other khan I've considered. He feels like a Sultai goodstuff commander, which is very expensive to build and a bit boring. If I could think of a way to make the deck powerful and interesting I might go for it. I've noted him being used in powerful control strategies, but I'd be more interested in using him for control-combo. Is that even a good idea?
- Melek, Izzet Paragon is a commander I've had my eye on. A 6 CMC, 2/4 commander with no protection built-in. His ability is loads of fun and my previous attempt to build a Melek deck really kept me interested. I'm just not sure how I feel about taking fifteen minute turns to do stuff everyone who's played against Melek has already seen.
- Mizzix of the Izmagnus feels like competition for Melek's place as the premier Izzet spellslinger. She's cheaper to cast and her ability is every bit as hilarious and perhaps just as potent. Also, this deck could more easily run Epic Experiment, which I've always wanted to do. It's uncharted territory though. I'm not sure I'm quite up to the task of pulling this off, yet.
So I'd appreciate any input on which of these makes sense to build given these preferences and concerns. I don't plan on taking a leap of faith here and help making an informed decision is appreciated! I'm especially interested to hear ideas on how to build these slightly-less-than-optimally. Going 100% on these is actually easier than going 90%.
For reference, combo control is possibly the strongest archetype in commander and Sultai is among the best placed colours combinations to play this style.
You could make a dredge kind of deck that reanimates powerful targets - but not only creatures also spells and other stuff through Snapcaster Mage and other value cards.
November 22, 2015 11:39 a.m.
ChickenPickles says... #4
I would consider Merieke Ri Berit or Rubinia Soulsinger as well for their massive potential for disruption, and great color combinations.
November 22, 2015 11:45 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #5
Thank you both.
@ChiefBell True, and I've seen Tasigur done really well. It's not the power level I doubt but whether I'd find him interesting to play. I'd need to see what my options are for him and go from there. The dredge idea seems very interesting and I may explore that.
I'm not really trying to build a true 75% deck. While I'm choosing not to go for 100% optimized, the power level I'm going for is significantly higher and requires doing things that are anathema to the 75% philosophy. I want something that doesn't shy away from any strategy and doesn't get cute with tutors, counterspells or highly consistent combos. Something between a 75% and "fully competitive".
It's more like I'm making a suboptimal competitive deck.
Anyway, glad to hear someone say the two khans could be solid choices. I need to find some decklists for reference, now; but it's hard to find an example that's truly competitive so I can use it as a baseline.
@ChickenPickles: Bant and Esper are nice, but the effect on those two feels much too weak unless there's some way to break it that I'm not seeing.
November 22, 2015 11:56 a.m.
Well like if you include a combo and you include tutors you have an above 90% deck, and are approaching 100% depending on the control options you have. Tutors + combo means you approach 100% IF you also have disruption.
November 22, 2015 12:03 p.m.
You can essentially play Epochs deck with Tasigur as the commander, for example.
November 22, 2015 12:03 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #8
If that's how we're defining it then it's a good descriptor the the sort of power level I'm after.
It's bizarrely hard to discuss deck power levels in this format, so apologies for any confusion.
November 22, 2015 12:05 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #9
Ghave can actually be really good for that too. The amount of combos orientated around him are absolutely insane. vault could tell you
November 22, 2015 12:07 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #10
I've talked to vault about Ghave. The power is definitely there and I like that he is actually an engine and distinct from Karador. I'm just not sure I want to do that deck just yet because of how many people I play with are running similar ones. I may make the list and just not build it for a while.
November 22, 2015 12:11 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #11
The Graveyard Is All But Quiet
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 1 | 1 COMMENTS | 147 VIEWS
Is a good 75% BUG deck. It's a theory deck that I made but if you wanna build something like it, be my guest. Not too competitive, but can hold up its own.
November 22, 2015 12:28 p.m.
I think that melek (or mizzix) would be the most entertaining. If you are worried about being generic, then don't. My melek deck for example runs a token based strategy with decent success. There is plenty of room to be original with izzet.
Though, looking at your description, the first commander that came to mind was shu yun. I think that a shu yun group hug voltron would work well.
November 22, 2015 12:33 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #13
The only commander from your list that I like at all is Ghave. The problem with asking for ideas for something that can hang with the big boys but that won't crush far from optimized decks is that such a deck can not exist. You are going to have to build a deck and not play it to its fullest when going against worse decks than it. You could always build Arcum Dagsson and just not go for the turn 3 lock if the decks you are facing are not up for that level of interaction.
November 22, 2015 12:50 p.m.
Which is why I suggested you opt for card draw instead of tutors. Having lots of tutors means you find your combos at will and win on the spot. Card draw means you find it quickly but still randomly.
November 22, 2015 1:01 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #15
Ok, heading to work now so I'll be posting less until I get home. My phone doesn't like the site much anyway.
I'll check the deck out, Squiggle . It's a good basis for comparison with the sort of "Sultai good stuff that costs more than a used car" lists I'be seen. If I go with Taz, mine will fall somewhere in between.
Ghode, I appreciate your suggestions! I'm sure Melek would be fun. But tokens seem too slow and the more powerful you make him the more Melek seems to demand a storm build or running specific combos. You've still talked me in to exploring the option a bit more. Thank you for the encouragement.
Please don't take this personally, but I disagree on Shu Yun. Group hug is suicidal, and voltron is too slow. In terms of what I enjoy playing it's also the absolute bottom of the Mtg ladder. But you get mad props for suggesting a khan!
November 22, 2015 1:25 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #16
Btw, I believe there is now an app for TappedOut on iOS. I don't know about Android or Google Play though. Worth checking out. Also, a planeschase and archenemy app are currently available, so get them while you can.
November 22, 2015 1:30 p.m.
Before you pick a commander, you should probably figure out what colors you want to be in. For a "75%" deck you'll still probably need 3 colors, but as long as it has blue and/or black in there, just about any combination can be made competitive.
Sultai:
- Provides opportunity for fatties and beaters, while ramping, controlling, and offering lots of draw for consistency.
Esper:
- Great for locks, stax/prison decks, and infinite combos. Super controlling and consistent.
Both of those are the two color combinations (other than 5-color Hermit Druid) that provide the most competitive decks, but can also be easily built in 75% decklists.
Grixis
- The most aggro-oriented of the UB three colors, it's often used as a Mob Rule-esque deck that chains combat phases, or Nekusar punisher.
Temur
- Temur usually goes one of two ways, Maelstrom Wanderer like decks that just ramp into an insta win, with a little counter magic to provide support, or Riku style toolboxy decks.
Abzan
- Ghave is great for Abzan decks that want to be competitive combo decks, that doesn't have a much control as a deck with blue, perfect for 75%.
Mardu
- Alesha is the most consistent of the Mardu decks, and if you want to see how competitive it can get just check out Femme_Fatales deck.
Jeskai
- Not the most common EDH color combination, it's usually used for very political games. It can be made into a competitive deck, but the colors feel clunky.
Jund
- Rarely are jund decks made competitive, as the colors are often used for tribal aggros, but Prossh can be used with great consistency.
Bant
- Bant can be built into any number of different styles, from group hug to Derevi stax. It has the consistency and resiliency of Sultai and Esper, but lacks the black tutor and draw.
Really, though. It comes down to what colors you like playing the most, as any of them can be made into competitive decks, and I think you should figure that out first, then find a commander.
November 22, 2015 2:01 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #18
Alesha can win on turn 3 considering a good hand, and can win on turns 5-8 on any normal game.
November 22, 2015 2:30 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #19
I think you're probably right Gidgetimer. It makes more sense to go all the way and tone down plays than to tone down the deck.
That rules out Sultai for financial reasons and helps me find lists more easily. Femme, I'm very interested in talking Alesha when I have the time. 3-8 turns sounds like the clock I'd like to be on.
November 22, 2015 3:49 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #20
Good luck forking out the cash for the proper tutors, ramp and land base :p
November 22, 2015 4:08 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #21
Yeah, that's going to be a pain in the wallet.
November 22, 2015 5:46 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #22
Ok, back home now and here's what I'm thinking:
First off, I apparently still have no clue what a 75% deck is. Every time I think I do, someone uses the term in a way that shows me I don't. I've heard a number of contradictory definitions. Some of those definitions describe what I'm going for pretty well, others don't fit it at all.
It's very confusing. If I could get a clear definition on what the term means I could say whether or not that's what I'm trying to do.
Anyway, it feels like I've narrowed down commanders:
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is awesome. I really like the idea of building around that commander but want to try some out-of-the-box stuff with her. That feels like it'd put this right where I want it. Femme_Fatale, would you be down to talk a little bit about building Alesha? Your deck is badass so you clearly know your stuff.
Ghave, Guru of Spores is also excellent. Commanders who fuel combos are always a plus, the colors are nice and several folks here have some really good lists. It seems like a fun commander to play. I actually started working on this already and I'm just not sure I want to proceed yet.
Melek, Izzet Paragon was very fun when I tried to build him in a really casual deck. He seems like he'd still be fun in a much more potent decklist. If I can find some creative stuff to do with him I'm still onboard with this dude. If I can find a way to make Epic Experiment worthwhile? Sold! That card is hilarious. I'd love to cast my entire deck.
Those three seem like the current candidates, but until I'm able to clearly explain what I'm trying to do with them it's a little bit of a moot point.
November 23, 2015 12:22 a.m. Edited.
I'd also be down to talk about Ghave and what you can do with him if you decide on him. My IRL friend Tyranith plays a pretty competitive creatureless Melek deck, and he might be interested in discussing it, but he's not really active around the site.
November 23, 2015 12:36 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #24
@vault: Thanks for the offer, I'll more than likely take you up on it. You did comment on I Ghave Up... a couple times! I haven't worked on it much since then. If I had a finished list I could proxy it up to test out and see if I want to build it for real, but tuning it to that point has been challenging and I haven't had the time lately.
I think it has potential to be something I'd really enjoy. Another cool thing about Ghave is I could make a pseudo-sideboard and swap out cards for more low power games and make it more aggro-combo. That flexibility with the same commander is really nice.
November 23, 2015 1:18 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #25
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death as a combo general isn't very well known. My deck is definitely more 100 card singleton, as if you take Alesha, and plop her into the deck, the deck functions perfectly fine. You never need Alesha to win the game.
What is more well known is either to do some sort of synergistic build with high cmc 2 power creatures that generate a lot of value OR creatures that are 0/0 that enter with +1/+1 counters.
As a combo general, you want to be focusing on reanimation combos. You can do some searches about which ones have a creature or multiple creatures with 2 power that help proc the combo, however one of the most well known EDH combos that works with Alesha is the Karmic Guide + Reveillark combo. Can never go wrong with this one but it isn't really creative.
November 23, 2015 4:07 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #26
@Femme_Fatale: I've noticed that, a lot of people seem to think she's just Kaalia-lite. But the combo potential is there and is what interests me much more.
November 23, 2015 9:28 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #27
I almost want to plug my Alesha Duel Commander deck here. Ah hell I'll do it. Maybe you'll get some inspiration.
Alesha, Who Smiles at All The Wincons
Duel Commander
SCORE: 4 | 10 COMMENTS | 838 VIEWS
It's a combo-based deck that is great 1v1 but can just as easily oneshot an entire table.
November 23, 2015 9:39 a.m. Edited.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #28
Why not Yore-Tiller Nephilim instead of Alesha. Same ability, less mana intensive and access to an additional color.
November 23, 2015 9:52 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #29
Because Nephilim aren't legendary? Some playgroups house rule that they can be commanders, but since the stated problem is that Jim doesn't have a set playgroup running a house ruled commander is the worst possible scenario for him.
November 23, 2015 9:56 a.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #30
Bugger... Missed that lil tidbit. Thought it was for some reason.
November 23, 2015 10:01 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #31
Also apparently Jim already looked my deck over. My bad, ignore it. Unless you want to look it over. In which case, go right ahead.
November 23, 2015 10:10 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #32
Going through this thread has helped me figure a lot of things out. What I think I'm going to do is make lists for all three of the candidates, then proxy them to playtest. The one that works best is the one I'll start building for real.
@canterlotguardian: Oh, it's giving me ideas. I think I'd want something sort of like that.
@Mj3913: No worries, I appreciate that you're trying to help.
November 23, 2015 9:07 p.m.
My apologies if I'm a little late, but here are some fairly high-powered commanders.
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (Sure, let's attack with my tokens and untap all my lands, that's totally fair.)
Mizzix of the Izmagnus (Free Scour from Existence? Two drop Time Warp? Yes please!)
Kaalia of the Vast (Because turn 5 Iona, Shield of Emeria.)
Krenko, Mob Boss (Alongside Impact Tremors? Absolutely.
Zurgo Helmsmasher (If you take three hits from him, you're dead. If you block him, he gets stronger. There can only be one result.)
Hope I helped, even if I am late.
November 24, 2015 7:42 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #34
@EDHNUT: Thanks, though I think I've narrowed it down more than that.
Anyway, with the exception of Mizzix I don't know that I'd use any of those, based on personal preference (rather than power level). I'd take Alesha over Kaalia. Krenko is a possibility in the future if my Zada deck doesn't pan out, though.
November 25, 2015 1:40 a.m.
Excellent...
It depends on the question of how you want to play; do you want to be the guy that kills people for the sake of killing people, or the guy who operates an innovative budget deck...
I mostly have the former at my LGS, so I'd probably pick Kaalia...The "power 2 or less" on Alesha is a bit of a deterrant for me. Well, each to his own. Happy deckbuilding!
November 25, 2015 5:15 a.m.
ChaosClaws says... #36
Personally, I've experimented with a lot of commander decks, and one that has stayed a favorite is Kaalia of the Vast. However, your friends won't agree with her, and probably target you head-on. I like to play Sharuum the Hegemon, but same problem: people think you're a combo player. I don't run combos, but still. A strong commander that people seem to not notice is Karador, Ghost Chieftain. Playing Abzan reanimator sounds nasty, but people don't find Karador, Ghost Chieftain to be strong, so they leave you alone. Then they see your turn 4 Avacyn, Angel of Hope and you comboing with Sun Titan and Karmic Guide while flinging half your deck in your grave with a Hermit Druid. Karador seems fair to some, but can really overwhelmingly crush everyone.
November 25, 2015 9:30 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #37
I'm usually pretty good at recognizing card interactions but you have completely lost me man. What does a turn 4 Avacyn have to do with Karador at all (I will admit that is some impressive ramp though). I also see no "combo" interaction between Sun Titan and Karmic Guide. I mean Karmic can bring the Titan back but then what. He can't bring her back. Reveillark is the more common thing to see comboed with Karmic Guide since it is a mutual loop and with a sac outlet you can abuse the hell out of any creature with power 2 or less that has an ETB/LTB.
November 25, 2015 10:10 a.m.
Gidgetimer the Avacyn is because of a reanimator, which he did mention, and though he didn't say Titan and Guide comboed with each other, I assume he meant it was implied there were infinite combos in his deck utilising them.
November 25, 2015 10:53 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #39
@ChaosClaws: Many people at my LGS are very good at threat assessment as a general rule; Karador is a popular commander there and does draw a considerable amount of hate because everyone expects that anyone playing them is going for a Blood Artist-style combo. I don't think he'd be considered less threatening than Kaalia of the Vast; more threatening, if anything.
@EDHNUT: It may be personal preference; the "angel, demon or dragon" and "from your hand" clauses on Kaalia feel too limiting to me. Alesha also benefits from the situation I mentioned above; playing the deck for infinite combos rather than just grabbing value may be unexpected to opponents the first time they see her.
For the deck I'm thinking of building, I'm leaning very heavily towards the "kill everyone" category. I have more casual decks I can use when that's not appropriate. I don't have a "murder the entire table really fast" deck for when that's what I'm playing against.
November 25, 2015 12:59 p.m.
If you ARE trying to kill everyone in sight as quickly as possible, I'd suggest Krenko, Mob Boss + Impact Tremors or maybe Warstorm Surge.
November 25, 2015 7:57 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #41
Krenko is certainly the most powerful aggro commander. In EDH though I have a preference for control and combo. Right now I'm tightening up my Ghave list: I Ghave Up.... If I like the way it goes I may build it.
ChiefBell says... #2
You mean a 75% deck?
You're going to want to be in 3 colours and have an abundance of card draw but not necessarily tutors. You're going to want a lot of value, be that through reanimation or generic 2-for-1s and you're going to want a lot of control elements.
Alesha isn't bad for those and ticks a lot of boxes.
However I much, much prefer Tasigur's colours.
November 22, 2015 11:34 a.m.