Lazav is a lazy bum!
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 12, 2015, 1:43 a.m. by ComradeJim270
I've been playing against some more competitive decks lately. I'm working on a high-powered deck to beat them, but in the mean time, I've got Lazav.
My Lazav deck is very slow. Most things that do what the deck wants are at least 4 CMC and a lot are 5, so I often just spend the first five turns of the game sitting around while people hit me in the face or start getting combo pieces together.
The hitting me in the face thing doesn't really stop after that, I don't have many ways to deal with aggro targeting me.
This deck needs to have its speed and consistency improved; either it needs its existing gameplan online faster, or it needs one that can get online faster. I'm not sure what to change right now since it's hard to find a good ratio of mill effects, steal/copy effects and utility cards. The fact most of the cards that are good for it are expensive doesn't help with card selection and suggests I need to up the land count and/or add more ramp.
So, I'd appreciate any input on how to allow this deck to either get on a faster clock, or slow down opponents to the speed it wants the game to go.
I Know You Are, But What Am I!?
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 7 | 0 COMMENTS | 933 VIEWS
eeriekiller says... #3
You could also try pillow-forting or giving group hugs. Cards like Curse of Shallow Graves, Crawlspace, and Collective Restraint are pretty nice
November 12, 2015 9:20 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #4
I almost never mill myself, actually. I tend to mill opponents heavily. Reanimate seems like an excellent choice though.
In my experience, group hug is suicidal. In almost every game I've seen it used, the player with the group hug stuff either dies first or has everyone but the winner glaring at them after the game. Pillow fort for early game defense seems like a better option and Collective Restraint is a new one to me. It's basically a second Propaganda. I like it!
November 12, 2015 11:30 a.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #5
Web of Inertia and Lethal Vapors are both good protection cards to buy you some turns. The combo Leyline of the Void + Web of Inertia will make it so you're never attacked again. Sure it'll hurt your graveyard play, but you'll be safe from all attacks until they disrupt the combo.
Low cost control would be good to like Whelming Wave, Boomerang, Crux of Fate, AEtherspouts, Devastation Tide, Black Sun's Zenith.
November 12, 2015 11:34 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #6
I'd be more into the Web of Inertia thing if I had a way to get rid of it once I don't need it, but in these colors that's very hard to do. Some of those large-scale bounces could be fantastic tempo plays to buy me time.
November 12, 2015 11:59 a.m.
eeriekiller says... #7
If you want more pillow for ideas check out this pillow fort card list here created by M a g i c a l H a c k e r
November 12, 2015 12:07 p.m.
poorpinkus says... #8
Have you thought of using discard cards such as Despise to get rid of opponents' big creatures? I feel like that could be useful
Pillow fort cards and cards that make people want to attack other people instead sound like good inclusions, have you thought of putting in any of the Vows? Vow of Flight and Vow of Malice act as pseudo-pacifisms without making the person you used it on angry.
Depending on the playgroup, politics is a good bet, and since your deck requires on other people's decks to be good people will know what they are most likely up against. Political cards will definitely be a good bet since your commander isn't extremely scary, but has potential, so making deals will make people happy, and they won't be too afraid.
Some cards I'd recommend that work with politics but also help you: Windfall, Jace's Archivist (although that could put a target on you) and Oath of Scholars. Basically, if you barter with people by allowing them to draw cards, they could discard creatures to help you out, and they may not attack you as often.
November 12, 2015 4:40 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #9
Solid points!
I'm more concerned about being swarmed by smaller creatures than big fatties. Hand disruption is still useful, but I'd want to run effects that hit multiple players or multiple cards so I'm not losing card advantage when I do it. More counterspells could help too.
Windfall and Jace's Archivist are cool. Especially the archivist, and I'm certainly considering it. The thing I like about these is they mess with combo decks, which are also much faster than me.
On politics; it's very difficult to do in many of my playgroups (which are rarely the same from week to week). Some will go for it, some will reject it outright, most will kind of go for it and then stab you in the back and knock you right out of the game. So anything political needs to be backed up by actual power.
November 13, 2015 2:42 a.m.
Definitely Jace's Archivist, as stated above, but also, Dark Deal, Whispering Madness, and Windfall all do similar things. Chains of Mephistopheles would be fun to use if it didn't cost so much...
If you are looking for a bit of land ramp, you could try Dreamscape Artist.
If you want a ridiculous way to move Glen Elendra Archmage's persist counter (and isn't Mikaeus, the Unhallowed), try Leech Bonder + Paradise Mantle and you can move all counters on creatures wherever you want. This can help if an opponent is using lots of +1/+1 counters. This also turns Glen Elendra Archmage into a way to remove creatures from play.
Lastly, you could use the eldrazi processors from BFZ to return opponent's exiled cards to their graveyard, triggering Lazav. Sire of Stagnation, Mimic Vat, and King Macar, the Gold-Cursed could work with that. Makes use of opponents who exile their own stuff (imprint, for example).
I could rattle off more ideas, but there are only so many things you can do in one deck and different directions you can go. Keep things simple, and figuring out what answers work for you in your meta shouldn't be too hard.
November 13, 2015 12:46 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #11
The problem with any meta call is I'm then planning around dozens and dozens of decks, at least. The only think I've noticed a lot of consistency in is graveyard play and frequent appearances by Eldrazi titans. Other than that I can't be sure of what I'll be facing. I know some decks I'm likely to see from some people, but I don't know if I'll be playing against those decks and those people.
So, I need to avoid things that are meta-dependent when possible in favor of catch-all solutions.
Anyway, Archivist is great!
The theme of the deck is milling people's stuff and then stealing it and using it to kill them. Decking out opponents is a secondary win condition because I'd be very surprised if nobody at the table had Ulamog or Kozilek to prevent that. Both of these are slow wins, requiring control elements to support them. The only fast wins I have are Duskmantle Guildmage combos.
eeriekiller says... #2
Midrange decks are fairly susceptible to aggro. Entomb and Buried Alive would do very well with your self-mill cloning style. As for creature recur, some less clunky ones are Reanimate, Animate Dead, Dance of the Dead, and a few others. I have a graveyard deck that could give a couple recur ideas. It also has a few good spot removal cards that i'd suggest you use in order to keep your oponent in check before your deck turns the corner
November 12, 2015 9:05 a.m.