Hate for maelstrom wanderer and Niv mizzet
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 4, 2016, 4:22 p.m. by mountainturtle93
So me and my LGS are running a pretty serious multiplayer commander league, and the top 4 are beginning to show who they will be. I am playing derevi, empyrial tactician and need some suggestions to play my two match ups who are also guaranteed a spot at the final pod. Maelstrom wanderer, and Niv mizzet are the decks I'll be facing. I have some ideas in mind, but would love to spit ball with you guys
RazortoothMtg says... #3
For niv-mizzet ( if it is Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind), anything that stops card draw seems good. Things like Spirit of the Labyrinth, well, die to Niv-Mizzet in 1 draw hmmm. Maybe Consecrated Sphinx? Your opponent will draw 6 cards in order to kill it, giving you 12 cards, which is a good discouragement. Wheel and Deal after an Enter the Infinite seems funny. Black Vise, Viseling, Ebony Owl Netsuke, and Storm Seeker.
As for Maelstrom Wanderer, well, I don't have much. I've faced this problem before, but as my playgroup isn't that competitive, the deck was shelfed and only brought out occasionally. Nevermore is great, and also works for nivmizzet. Same with Meddling Mage. Also, wanderer is an 8-drop, so some MLD? Derevi can potentially be a stax general as he ramps you with the untap ability, so Armageddon and Ravages of War.
Well hopefully you didn't get bored and fall off your chair. Hope I helped a little.
October 4, 2016 4:57 p.m.
wjohnson936 says... #4
Maybe stuff like Curse of Exhaustion, Arcane Laboratory, Eidolon of Rhetoric, or Rule of Law. Derevi's ability jumps around the global effects nicely. Erayo, Soratami Ascendant and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets might work as well. Should frustrate the Maelstrom player a little bit when they can't cast the spells off of the double cascade.
Assuming the Niv-Mizzet is built as a combo, give it shroud with stuff like Alexi's Cloak, Aspect of Mongoose, Diplomatic Immunity, Favorable Destiny, Mystic Veil, or Robe of Mirrors. (Hexproof might be better actually.) Alternatively, lock-out it's activated ability or give yourself hexproof with Abeyance,Aegis of the Gods, Arrest, Azorius Guildmage, Bind, Detainment Spell, Encrust, Faith's Fetters, Gelid Shackles, Ice Cage, Interdict, Ivory Mask, Katabatic Winds, Krasis Incubation, Leyline of Sanctity, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Lost in Thought, Orbs of Warding, Peace Talks, Phyrexian Revoker, Pithing Needle, Serra Bestiary, Squelch, Stifle, Stupefying Touch, Suppression Bonds, Trickbind, Voidstone Gargoyle, or Volrath's Curse. I feel like throwing a Pemmin's Aura on it could lead to some interesting politics.
Obviously some of these cards are better than others, but that's everything I've got.
October 4, 2016 5:19 p.m.
mountainturtle93 says... #5
My deck list I have on here isn't current, as I have removed about 10 cards but I can update later today. Lock down combo
October 4, 2016 5:25 p.m.
mountainturtle93 says... #6
I think the cards like Curse of Exhaustion will be great against both of them. I think I have to keep it to 3 cmc or less though because they can both go off on turn 3 to 5 so I need to catch them early.
October 4, 2016 6 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum (auto-generated comment)
October 4, 2016 6:40 p.m.
Derevi is higher than Maelstrom Wanderer and Niv Mizzet on the power scale. As long as you build your deck properly, you should have a positive win percentage. Get your derevi out. Get your stasis out. And win.
October 4, 2016 7:05 p.m.
If the Maelstrom Wanderer deck is a beatdown deck, repeatable fogs are potent, like a Spike Weaver. Alternatively, there is of course the Rule of Law type effects as mentioned previously. Land destruction is also very effective at keeping the RUG guy in check, but unfortunately that is red's forte generally speaking. You could get off to a fast start with some fliers, then play Armageddon before he can get big threats into play. That will not make you friends though, and can backfire pretty hard if he ends up recovering faster than you can kill him. Finally, keep a few cheap counters on hand, remember he can't play Wanderer if he can't get to 8 mana. However, the Wanderer player has already painted a huge target on his back, so as long as you are playing the politics right you should be ok.
For Niv-Mizzy, you have several options. Firstly, shutting down his draw is a great idea like others have suggested, but not always practical. Another option is to make Niv-Mizzet impotent with cards like Defang, Muzzle, or Darksteel Mutation. Out of all of those Darksteel Mutation is my favorite just because it is almost always relevant, shutting down commanders without sending them back to the command zone for recasting later.
In that vein, make sure you have some cheap removal! Niv-Mizzet is expensive, so if he taps out for it punish him with a Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares.
Guardian Seraph is a decent answer, since Niv's effect will do nothing to you. It also comes with a good body for a Derevi deck. The problem is that he can kill it with 4 draws, so you need a way to keep it alive. Shroud/hexproof works, or you can use stuff like Mark of Asylum. Even if you can't keep it alive, it will keep swarms at bay, and can swing for 3 in the air which is nice.
I also like Orbs of Warding, just because it is good against Niv but also relevant against many other archetypes common in commander. The problem is 5 mana is a lot so you want to make sure it sticks when you get it down.
Finally, the most expensive but arguably most useful against Niv is Purity. Red has very few answers to this thing, so if you can keep him from countering or bouncing it you will be in pretty good shape.
In general, just be aggressive and keep them on the back foot. Derevi plays a mean tempo game, so take advantage of that.
October 4, 2016 7:35 p.m. Edited.
RazortoothMtg says... #10
On the same note as Darksteel Mutation, Song of the Dryads and Imprisoned in the Moon are good too.
October 4, 2016 8:01 p.m.
My question in all of this and I didnt see it above is...
youre allowed to change your deck, mid tournament?
October 4, 2016 11:18 p.m.
The major scary factors of the two decks is their ability to kill out of nowhere so you should likely focus your energy around dealing with that, as you can likely win the value game with either of them. In that vein I definitely agree that cheap counter spells are the way to go, so you may want to consider Arcane Denial and its ilk.
Also I notice you aren't running Winter Orb which seem useful in your deck, especially since Derevi has good option to turn it off by tapping it when you want to. It also pairs well with Sword of Feast and Famine which you could consider running as well
October 4, 2016 11:25 p.m.
mountainturtle93 says... #13
SaintHipster we are allowed weekly changes to the main board, and also a 7 card sideboard during each event. The tournament goes for 6 weeks long and is a point based league. I will update my list tonight guys, or during my lunch, and give you and update on my strategy I think with all these juicy cards I can win with ease.
October 5, 2016 5:55 p.m.
The biggest thing that can stop either deck is stopping triggered abilities, not activated ones. Niv has the tap:draw ability as a side note that is handy but is only used as a troll type Effect mostly.
Send both their graveyards and any cards cast to exile whenever possible, board wipe often, and give your creatures and yourself hexproof via enchanments. It won't stop stuffy doll or Psychosis Crawler, but it will prevent most Niv effects from happening.
Niv-Mizzet's biggest weakness is that there are very few enchantment removals in red/blue. He can handle everything else, but enchantments are hard to handle.
Counterspells are your friend against Maelstrom, static effects that pubish casting spells or creatures are good too.
Check out my Niv-mizzet hot and cold deck. It's not typical for his type, but he has won me the most games.
October 5, 2016 11:50 p.m.
ErzengelofChaos says... #15
Niv can be stopped using enough board wipes. Also you can use Iona, Shield of Emeria that says name a color and opponents can't cast that color. Simply choose red or Blue that'll lock both commanders. Witchbane Orb, White Leyline, or something that gives you Hexproof can help too because Niv can't target you.
October 6, 2016 8:38 a.m.
Get some artifact exile and hexproof will work. The biggest problem with hexproof-self is that most Niv decks also run Psychosis Crawler and/or Stuffy Doll. Both of these will kill you just as effectively as Niv himself and get around hexproof. Stuffy is indestructible, and Psychosis Crawler hurts everyone when the player draws so having something to exile one or both is VERY beneficial.
Even if you stop Niv from damain you, he can still win in several ways, milling through forced wheel effects, Laboratory Maniac, through several other creatures, and several other infinite combos.
If your creatures don't have hexproof as well, dismiss into dreams, gorgon's head, and sigil of sleep can kill/remove them. And Charisma will steel them. Let alone Niv/Goblin Sharpshooter blasting anything with enough card draw.
Again, the best way to neat Niv Mizzet is to play enchantments.RU can't remove enchantments very well. Punish then for everything via enchantments and they can do almost nothing to stop you.
EmblemMan says... #2
You should link your deck so we know what is in it now and how it could be changed to do well.
October 4, 2016 4:54 p.m.