What the heck does "combo" actually mean?
Challenges and Articles forum
Posted on Aug. 19, 2014, 1:30 a.m. by MagicalHacker
We all know that combo is a slang term meaning "combination" what but exactly is referring to?
So according to MTG Salvation Wiki, a combo refers to "Any combination of 2 or more cards which produces a beneficial effect, designed to gain an advantage over the opponent."
Well, the question is, doesn't that describe everything? Technically, isn't a Rakdos Cackler enchanted with a Curiosity a two card combination designed to gain an advantage over an opponent? The short answer would be... Yes. Is it a combo? No. Why?
This is the definition of combo that most players agree with, based on what I've observed in the Magic community:
"A combo is an interaction between two cards that creates an effect on the game that is beyond the scope of what each card was designed to do; this interaction makes each card much more powerful than they would be on their own or with another card."
However, I've noticed multiple players confusing the term "combo" for "infinite combo", which are different terms for a reason. So what exactly is the difference?
Here's what the definition of "infinite combo" would be:
"An infinite combo is a combo that allows a particular process to be repeated without any inherent limits usually repeated to an arbitrarily large amount of times since repeating it to infinity is not possible in the bounds of magic."
In short, what does that actually mean? Here's the fundamental difference: a combo is a card interaction that increases the power of each card to above the main purpose of each card, while an infinite combo is a type of combo that allows a beneficial process to be repeated any number of times without any drawback or investment of resource.
What are YOUR opinions on this? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Most importantly, why or why not?
MagicalHacker says... #3
I remember that thread, and I agree that it is just an interaction. (I distinctly remembering having a facepalm moment when I read that.)
What would you say is the difference between the terms "infinite combo", "non-infinite combo", and "near-infinite combo"?
(Succinctly, in my opinion, "infinite combo" refers to -- as you said quite fittingly -- "a relationship between two or more cards that produces an overwhelming, repeatable advantage", "non-infinite combo" refers to the same powerful interaction utilizing a powerful blanket effect rather than a repeating process, and "near-infinite combo" is one that can be repeated to a very large amount rather than to infinity, like Curiosity + Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind .)
August 19, 2014 2:08 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
I generally distinguish between two kinds of combos: infinite combos and locks.
Infinite combos are interactions that can be repeated ad nauseam in order to generate overwhelming advantage.
Locks are interactions that don't for repeating loops, but do form a game state that prevents players from taking certain actions. Knowledge Pool + Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is a lock.
August 19, 2014 2:18 a.m.
I always understood a combo as a relationship existing between 2 + cards in which the power of each card is raised beyond its own limits. Example of this would be Glimpse of Nature in an Elfball. It creates a situation where the possibility if drawing and playing an incredible amount of cards exists.
Infinite combo seems to me to be something that is self explanatory...card interactions that can be repeated over and over until you choose to stop the interaction or someone else interrupts it. Example: Crystal Shard
, Eternal Witness
, and Temporal Manipulation
. You take extra turns with Time Warp
while using Crystal Shard
to keep bouncing Eternal Witness
to keep recasting Time Warp
. Infinite combos also, in my opinion, win the game for many reasons. Azami, Lady of Scrolls
+Laboratory Maniac
+ Mind Over Matter
is an instant win. Imperious Perfect
+ Intruder Alarm
+ Llanowar Elves
is also an almost instant win.
The sticky part is what isn't a combo? Example is Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge + Hatred a combo or an interaction. It wins the game in 1 shot (EDH). In multiplayer, will it become a combo if I combine it with Savage Beating to kill 2 opponents?
August 19, 2014 9:29 a.m.
biggestmtgnerd says... #6
If it is a combination of cards that wins games if not disrupted, it is a combo. If it has synergy but does not win the game, it is an interaction. Combos can be split into three parts: Infinite, near-infinit, and non-infinite. Non-infinite can the be split into locks and non-locks. Locks include Glacial Chasm + Leveler + Timesifter , while non-locks include stuff like Blasphemous Act + Vigor , which is a game winning synergy, and therfore a combo. So I guess it's a combo-nation of what anybody said! Anybody get my pun?
August 19, 2014 10:10 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #7
Epochalyptik, I've heard the term lock before, but not as a term for a combo. I agree with everything you said.
capriom85, I don't think that hatred is a justifiable combo piece unless it's paired with lifelink. It shortens Hatred to "Target creature gets +X/+0, where X is your life total minus one," without any life payment. Anywhere else, I'd say it's just an interaction.
biggestmtgnerd, Lol, nice pun. But what about infinite life gain combos? What about other combos that don't win you the game but make it so that your opponents can't win the game?
August 19, 2014 10:20 a.m.
Nigeltastic says... #8
I think the word also changes when referring to the deck archetype of 'combo deck'. I think in that situation the deck may just be full of meaningful interactions and the deck builds to a critical mass of generating value and wins off the back of that with a key card seemingly from nowhere.
August 19, 2014 10:49 a.m.
filledelanuit says... #9
I have always defined combo as: the interaction between 2 or more cards that creates a powerful effect that would not happen without the specific cards. The main difference between an infinite combo and a combo is that an infinite combo can be done an arbitrarily large number of times while a combo has a some kind of limit.
A combo would be: Sensei's Divining Top +Counterbalance this does an extremely power thing but it cannot be repeated forever unless an infinite combo is involved.
As for infinite combos they are rather obvious. Helm of Obedience +Rest in Peace
August 19, 2014 11:21 a.m.
What about Curse of Exhaustion and Possibility Storm ? If they interact the way I think it locks your opponent out of playing non land spells...yes? Is this a combo or a lock or are locks combos?
Epochalyptik says... #2
There are a bunch of threads on here about what a combo is or isn't.
I support the distinction between combo and interaction.
An interaction is a relationship between two or more cards that produces a benefit or advantage greater than those cards could individually produce.
A combo is a relationship between two or more cards that produces an overwhelming, repeatable advantage.
For example, Exquisite Blood + Archangel of Thune is an interaction, while Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond is an interaction.
People seem to be fond of calling any interaction a combo, and it's kind of annoying because many of these so-called "combos" don't really do anything significant. There was a thread a while back that proposed Nylea's Presence + Chasm Skulker was a combo.
August 19, 2014 1:46 a.m.