My Totally Lopsided Trades This Week
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on Oct. 10, 2014, 3:30 p.m. by DarkHero
So I met a new playgroup recently, and a few other kids came to join us, sort of out of the blue. My being the trade whore that I am, I was like hey what you got thats good. Namely I got a FOIL Archangel of Thune , that unfortunately had seen better days because it was being played unsleeved, for Corpsejack Menace , 2 Ordeal of Heliod , and 2 Imposing Soverign. Which was an absolute steal.
And today I traded some bulk, Falkenrath Aristocrat and Phenax, God of Deseption for FOIL Dictate of Erebos , regular Dictate of Erebos , Anger of the Gods , Drown in Sorrow , the Minotaur Captain, and Searing Blood .
On a lighter note, I traded with someone I actually like for 2 Temple of Enlightenment , FOIL Drown in Sorrow , 2 Bile Blight . All for some stuff that added up to about equal value, at least considering I gave this person a stack of cards for free the week before. New Player.
Yeah, Kind of a dick move for not expressing values.
I know being that kid that made a trade only to find out they got ripped off when I was newer kinda too the wind outta my sails as a magic player. You should be able to teach and show new players what to expect when it comes to trading for value.
Take the higher road next time, don't be so sleazy.
October 10, 2014 3:55 p.m.
Then again, that's just the angry child in me talking that made the same mistake.
I wonder if that player went onto a forum to brag about it as well.
October 10, 2014 3:56 p.m.
Pretty much. I didn't force anything on anyone. I told them what they a was valuable. They said they wanted these cards that I didn't value anywhere near where they valued them. I'm not about to tell them no. Plus I don't really like these kids very much so I didn't really care to be like hey bro your making a big mistake. Where with the kid I was actually friends with I explained to him really in depth what he had and what I had that he might want. That other kid really wanted Corpsejack to help finish his deck, well he got one. It's a really casual playgroup that doesn't really pay attention to rarity or monetary value, just weather or not they can use it in their individual deck idea. So for me it's beneficial obviously, and they leave happy still, so I sleep at night. Trading is a win or lose sport to me so when I win a few I get excited.
October 10, 2014 3:59 p.m.
It's not an all the time thing is what I'm trying to get across. These kids have been playing for ever and it's just a strange set of value systems that they all use that I don't understand. They use cards I've never even heard of and junk good stuff.
October 10, 2014 4:01 p.m.
He was bragging about the Ordeal of Heliods to people
October 10, 2014 4:02 p.m.
I don't like this. I know you know I don't like this, and I know you don't care, that you would've done it anyway.
But, like, when you say "I told them they had a valuable card", do you mean you said "That card is valuable" or that you said something along the lines of "That's a thirty dollar card, and I'm giving you about five dollars worth of cards put together, are you sure you're okay with that?". I'd be much more okay with it if you gave them actual value disclaimers rather than "That's valuable, these not so much, but you like 'em, wanna trade"?
Also, just because you don't do this to everyone doesn't mean it's okay when you do it to some people. "These kids have played together for a long time and they value different things than me, so fuck it, I'm taking their valuable cards for jank they might like"?
I'm only kind of trying to be accusatory here. Wanna promote proper discussion and all that, but this was kind of a moral low road.
October 10, 2014 4:11 p.m.
Hahaha Epochalyptik
I traded a Moonsilver Spear and a Flying Crane Technique for two fetchlands the week of release. He turned down Chandra, Pyromaster and Garruk, Caller of Beasts and zoomed in on those two cards.
Jealous of the Foil Archangel. Is it as beautiful as I imagine it to be?
October 10, 2014 4:13 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #11
I've done trades as such with my friends who only play casual. Necropolis Regent and Curse of Death's Hold for Voice of Resurgence when it was 43. I don't allow myself to do that anymore, since its a major dick move. I'm of the philosophy that it doesn't matter if they're your friend or not, they'll get pretty pissed once they find out what happened. I've been ripped off myself (not as egregiously as I've done however), and it makes you feel terrible. Whether or not you care about the person you're ripping off, have the decency to be a good person.
Tl;dr Your trades are bad and you should feel bad
October 10, 2014 4:44 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #12
I see that this registers emotionally with a lot of people. Maybe this should be a community discussion next? In any case, I've been on both sides of this argument. It makes you a much better trader in the long run to deal with people who shark on you haha. Turns you into a cautious trader.
Don't be like my though. Buy a fetch land for a dollar than trade it for buddy lands x2 :(
October 10, 2014 4:50 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #14
Idk, if i could sell my 50 thousand Evolving Wilds for a dollar apiece I'd be pretty happy.
October 10, 2014 5:13 p.m.
jamesesdad says... #15
Seems like you came here to brag about your dishonest shady dealings expecting some form of vindication, only to backpedal and try to justify your shitty behavior when you get called out. Whatever helps you sleep at night i guess =/
October 10, 2014 5:17 p.m.
In the long run it's only going to hurt you. Word will get around about what your doing and people won't want to trade with you. It doesn't matter if you say it doesn't happen all the time or that you only do it to people you don't like. Just knowing that your a giant ass would make me never trade with you. I would also go around and let others know at the shop what you had done and physically point you out if you were in the room. That way your not ripping anyone off anymore and they can continue to spread the word to other regulars at the shop. I want a fun, healthy, and safe place to play and that can't happen if people like you are running around all the time. It's one thing to come out ahead in a trade but actively deceiving someone is a completely different stroy and the fact you feel justified in doing so is quite disturbing.
October 10, 2014 5:38 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #17
To reply, yes. A guy who Didn't play mtg sold me a Misty Rainforest for one dollar. He was arrogant and overall not a nice guy.
From the tone of the original post, it looked to me like it wasn't his intention to actively rip people off...but even so it's scary to see people go all witch hunt about it...very scary
October 10, 2014 5:51 p.m.
The way I see it, you can look at cards for their monetary value, or you can look at them for deckbuilding value. If DarkHero's traders valued the cards he offered more than the offer he was giving them and was happy with them, then I don't see a problem with it.
Remember that MTG card pricing is not legitimately OFFICIAL, but more street prices. Sealed products have official pricing, but the individual cards are determined by the supply/demand of the community.
JUST LIKE DRUGS
October 10, 2014 6:06 p.m.
The fact that he feels the need to point out that the third trade was done with someone he "actually likes" leads me to believe he had every intention of ripping off the people he didn't know or didn't like, at least as long as they didn't say anything and he could get away with it. If they had said something I don't doubt that the trades would have been more even, just based on the post I feel like he had no intention of making a fair trade unless he had to. If not, the fact that the third trade was done with someone that he liked would be completely irrelevant information. Also, if you notice in his last sentence. he only considered the trade even because he gave the guy a stack of cards the week before. This just makes me feel like he ripped off the "guy he liked" as well, just not as much as the others because he gave him a stack of commons or some other cheap bulk at some earlier point in time.
October 10, 2014 6:06 p.m.
TheNinjaJesus says... #20
Everyone has gotten bilked and bilked someone a trade at one time or another. I think the core question is intent versus value. If you set out to hose your fellow magic player, that's not a cool way to be. If your trade partner has value in the card offered to them and offers you more to seal it, then the desire for the card IS value. I have made out like a bandit before... But I never hose a player intentionally. That's just karma, dude.
October 10, 2014 6:07 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #22
I get lots of good deals at the Trading Post . Seriously, 1 life for a goat? That's just one green mushroom! for a goat! (cross-references anyone?)
October 10, 2014 6:25 p.m.
Yeahh guys relax. The original post hardly sounded mean. In my trade we actually looked up the values of the cards on the guy's phone. At the time he was trading a 20 dollar card for a 50 cent one and he was like, "Wow go figure. I'll never play with this though so here." and we traded. Monetary value isn't everything to every player. In fact, the dude I traded with for fetches has been playing magic 9 years longer than I have.
In my experience, the people who care obsessively about the "value" of a card will use it to nickle and dime you to the extreme.
October 10, 2014 6:40 p.m.
One time I gave a causal player two bucks for a lightning bolt, rancor, kird ape, two burning-tree emissary and two banishing light. The guy had a huge box of cards and told me to pick whatever I wanted and he'd give me a price, though I'm not sure he was too aware of the fiscal value. I don't feel too bad about it. So yeah, if both parties are content, why not? Obviously no intentional harm. Just don't be a douche bag.
October 10, 2014 9 p.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #25
Shit happens guys(as everyone knows). Some people care about monetary value and some don't. I acquired many of my shocklands from my casual playing friends who didn't give a shit about them but knew they had lots of value yet they still traded them to me for .50 cent rares that they HAD to have for their decks.
October 10, 2014 9:44 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #26
To add to the argument, the title even implies that the trade was meant to see how far the trades could've gone.
"My Totally Lopsided Trades This Week" makes me feel like this a regular occurrence.
October 10, 2014 9:45 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #27
I think that's interpreted by the reader.
You're putting emphasis that he does this on a weekly basis. I rag this as this crazy shit happend this week but honestly, we could end the guessing game entirely and give the guy a chance to expand on the reasons further..
October 10, 2014 9:48 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #28
I don't really care about the trade, I don't agree with it, but to each their own.
Or the reasons really, I just wanted to add fuel to the fire.
October 10, 2014 9:50 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #29
My rebuttal senses were driving me mad....this is what working as a telemarketer does to you.
On another note, did you fukin call Falkenrath Aristocrat
bulk rare???
October 10, 2014 9:52 p.m.
I know someone who got a Cryptic Command for free. Even told him the price and everything, stressed that he'd be willing to trade and the guy just said "take it."
I've been on the end of a shitty trade before (Foil Blood Crypt for some junk rares), and the guy I traded it to was kind enough to make it back to me eventually, but it really made me feel stupid and almost made me quit. Don't be that guy. Seriously.
October 11, 2014 12:50 a.m.
gnarlicide says... #31
I have seen dudes do trades like this, (pushing valuable cards for next to nothing). Albeit, some of them were ignorant to the fact that say Liliana of the Veil
is worth 70 bucks. When I run into a dude like that (you can almost always point them out by their binders) I tell them what I want from them is worth and that they want standard cards for their legacy/modern cards.
On the same note, among friends, I trade for deck building. I gave a friend of mine a Japanese foil Dryad Arbor
which is worth roughly 100 USD for a pair of Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
and an Elspeth, Sun's Champion
. I do not feel dumb for doing it. I needed the cards for a super IQ and he had them at the time.
I am sure the OP had good intentions during his trades. Furthermore, everyone of us has been "rooked" at one point in time, and that's what this can be perceived as. But eventually, people figure out what they gave away/received and sometime feel like shit over it... (I suddenly remember trading my Mox Ruby
for some Stone Rain
back in the day). Let's not make a bigger deal than it actually is, guys and gals.
On a side note... Good job??? I feel like you could have done more to inform the other parties, bro.
October 11, 2014 1:05 a.m.
gnarlicide says... #32
I have seen dudes do trades like this, (pushing valuable cards for next to nothing). Albeit, some of them were ignorant to the fact that say Liliana of the Veil
is worth 70 bucks. When I run into a dude like that (you can almost always point them out by their binders) I tell them what I want from them is worth and that they want standard cards for their legacy/modern cards.
On the same note, among friends, I trade for deck building. I gave a friend of mine a Japanese foil Dryad Arbor
which is worth roughly 100 USD for a pair of Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
and an Elspeth, Sun's Champion
. I do not feel dumb for doing it. I needed the cards for a super IQ and he had them at the time.
I am sure the OP had good intentions during his trades. Furthermore, everyone of us has been "rooked" at one point in time, and that's what this can be perceived as. But eventually, people figure out what they gave away/received and sometime feel like shit over it... (I suddenly remember trading my Mox Ruby
for some Stone Rain
back in the day). Let's not make a bigger deal than it actually is, guys and gals.
On a side note... Good job??? I feel like you could have done more to inform the other parties, bro.
October 11, 2014 1:05 a.m.
Im more pissed when i see a card or a few in someones binder that i want for a deck that i was building, and get told that they wont take less than 150% trade value for it. I know what its worth. They know what its worth. I need it for a deck. They will never use it. And still going to be a douchebag about it in regards to coincidence of wants. Spike players too often spike traders, or maybe just where im at. Either way, moral low road as well
October 11, 2014 2:16 a.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #34
Just because someone isn't using the cardi n a deck and doesn't intend to doesn't mean that they don't have other value to it. If a card is gonna go up in price, or it's right before PT and I'm doing some speculating, I'll overvalue cards I think will go up. Or if it has sentimental value. Or if I intend to alter it. Don't assume just because someon's overvaluing a card they're only doing it to be an ass (although there was a guy at my LGS that knew I needed Eidolon of Blossoms and tried to sell it to me for 8$. I didn't like that, so I lived with only running 3 at fnm. not a big deal.)
October 11, 2014 2:15 p.m.
Yeah i asked all of the possibilities for potentially keeping a card and he just said no to all, didnt especially want to keep it just said i dont know you so its 150% value or nothing. Just a douche lol
October 11, 2014 2:56 p.m.
Dalektable says... #36
I disagree with your trading values, however I won't badger you for it as everyone else has already done that for me. Personally, I always make it so that both parties know exactly the price of their cards regardless of whether they care. If they really want it, I will take a better trade for my part. I traded about 30 dollars worth of stuff for about 60 dollars of a friend of mines last week, but it was okay because we both knew the prices of the cards and he made it clear that he was okay with the trade.
October 11, 2014 6:49 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #37
Just saying, what's worth more to some super casual player? A raggety scalding tarn they're not using because they play dimir, or all those tomb scours, jace's archivists, and other effective mill cards? I'm gonna make a lot more use out of the land than he will, and he'll make more use out of the newly upgraded deck than I will. Both parties are happy with it. If you're not happy with a trade, don't make it, but don't push it on other people. I make sure that the people I trade with make sure that if they get into trading they will want to hold onto it.
But it works the other way around too. I make it a big deal that I will overvalue cards that are gonna go into my deck, or will be otherwise used. I have the binder to, I'm willing to, and both of us are happier off that way. I get a card for my deck, and they make a profit.
The barter system is designed to improve the happiness of both parties. Prices are a suggestion, and not the only factor that goes into bartering. A good example was I traded a kahns poluted delta for a scalding tarn, cause the guy needed the delta a hell of a lot more for his esper modern deck. Later that day, I traded for a cycle of shocks for about 150$, because I needed them for my 5c edh deck.
October 12, 2014 4:58 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #38
So you're saying that my 1 peso is worth more to a Mexican than his American 100 hundred dollar bill, just because he can't use the 100 dollar bill?
October 12, 2014 9:27 p.m.
The way you do it is trade for cards and have them spike the next day. That way you're not a douchebag, and you get profits. e.g. I traded an Abzan Ascendancy for a foil Monastery Swiftspear the day of the prerelease when no-one knew foil prices, and a week later the swiftspear foil is 20. Also i traded my Xenagos, God of Revels for a Dig Through Time a couple of days ago when it was 4. The person was a friend, and they're not too happy about the trade now that dig tripled. The worst thing i think i've done was in ISD/RTR standard. I needed 2 lingering souls, and the person I was trading with only had the promo. They were 5-10 at the time, and this guy wanted my dreadbore. He thought it was worth 8, but I didn't have my phone on me. I tried to warn him that i didn't think it was that much, but he wanted to trade anyway. I felt bad when i looked it up later and found out it was 2, but it was nothing too serious anyway, and I make sure people know prices if I can.
October 13, 2014 5:44 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #40
I mean. If you're a dumbass and get schooled in a trade, it's kind of your fault. I mean, it is your fault. Nobody forced you to make the trade. It's your responsibility to know the value of things. That way if a dude tries to run a scam on you, you'll know to tell him to piss off. If you don't care about value and just want the card(s) being offered to you for whatever reason, that's your right. If you get tricked by somebody or even outright lied to, it's still your fault. If you took the time to learn MTG, you can damn sure take the time to examine the singles market online. I mean, come on. This kinda shit shouldn't even be happening anymore.
That being said. I feel that scamming unknowing players is still morally low. There's something about it that feels mean-spirited and dishonest. And, as has been noted, it can demoralize the scammed to the point that they quit the game. It's douchey, and I also feel like it's in poor taste to brag about it. It indicates other low areas in a person's character. I don't feel confident in somebody's character if the first thing I learn about them is that they brag about fucking over younger strangers.
erabel says... #2
Um. Don't know what I'm supposed to say here. "Congrats on essentially taking money from people you just met"?
Sure, they're just as responsible as you are for knowing how much their cards are worth and all that good stuff. But, like, the way you worded it sounds like you didn't even attempt to make sure that the trades were financially even, except with the last person ("Someone I actually liked").
October 10, 2014 3:49 p.m.