Commander / EDH
SCORE: 131 | 145 COMMENTS | 74115 VIEWS | IN 59 FOLDERS
Ban Hammer —July 11, 2019
With the ban hammer falling on Paradox Engine, I've made some quick changes that have been testing well the past few days
Could you possibly detail the changes between each budget level? I'm trying to see what the main card additions are between $750/$1500/$2500 but am unsure
June 3, 2019 2:36 a.m.
@Ataraxey: absolutely, I've been meaning to to just that but have been incredibly busy. In the descriptions of each budget list I'll have an explanation of the INs and OUTs between this list and the budget deck.
June 3, 2019 8:51 a.m.
@Ataraxey: just finished the details on the card swaps from each budget list to this one. Check each one out in their respective descriptions. I wont detail the swaps from each budget list to another budget list as that would take up an incredible amount of time I just dont have as well as bee be incredibly excessive. If you would like to compare a budget list to a budget list, TappedOut actually has a feature for this: scroll down past the description to where you can see the buttons to "add to a folder" and "copy deck" are and right below that is a "compare this list" button, click that and follow the instructions on the prompt to see the differences :) hope that helps!
June 3, 2019 11:18 a.m.
June 3, 2019 10:36 p.m. Edited.
@KaliDaemon thank you! That's awesome, I appreciate the extra work!
June 4, 2019 4:50 a.m.
Hey, how did Spellskite perform so far? Also curious about Trail of Evidence ; I was thinking Paradoxical Outcome as well. Its kind of a blue Ad Naus with Urza and artifacts on the field and can also bounce a Winter Orb or Static Orb eot in case you dont have him out.
June 15, 2019 8:11 p.m.
@pa_c_man Spellskite has performed great for me...blocking small creatures well and protecting Urza from spot removal...honestly I have yet to draw trail since its inclusion so I couldnt tell you how its been... but I've won most games without it so it's probably an easy cut. PO would be a good add but I've yet to have real trouble with a draw engine. But drawing cards is never bad so itll be worth testing
June 15, 2019 8:21 p.m.
Any chance that Scroll Rack might be a worthy include for top-deck manipulation?
June 18, 2019 3:05 p.m.
Massacar we really dont need top of deck manipulation, urza's ability shuffles the deck first so your outcome is always random. On top of that we also run a senseis top to manipulate our top of deck with any leftover mana we might have to set up better natural draws and it also helps to draw the deck entirely with voltaic key and paradox engine so then out top of deck doesnt matter as much.
June 18, 2019 3:31 p.m.
KailDaemon thanks for the advice. I've been working on my own decklist and yours has helped me refine mine quite a bit. Had quite a few similarities but definitely helps for the chopping block.
June 18, 2019 3:35 p.m.
Massacar no problem my dude glad I could help. Good luck with your brew!
June 18, 2019 3:49 p.m.
KailDaemon what is your reasoning on adding Sapphire Medallion because there are so few cards that are affected by it. And if there was a reason for not adding more blue removal with something like Pongify or Reality Shift
June 21, 2019 4:04 p.m.
@Snicksnork18 sapphire medallion hits 24 cards out of the 100...1/4 of the deck is quite alot. It helps us cast Urza on t2 and t3 more consistently just like any rock and helps lower the cost of many of our tutors to grab combo/stax pieces to help us win the game. We could add more removal but I find them to be not quite as necessary when we are already pulling ahead by limiting what our opponents can even do...plus the cards you have suggested hits only creatures whereas cards like capsize, chain of vapor and winds of rebuke hit most everything and capsize and Winds of Rebuke can double as win cons should we need them to. Reality shift is a great choice however and I've included in in my budget builds as an alternate win con piece with dramatic scepter and copy artifact
June 21, 2019 4:23 p.m.
@KailDaemonAlso, if the mill plan is not an option say someone has a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth in their deck any suggestions on additions and or cuts to the deck to get around this? It is more common in my playgroup.
June 21, 2019 4:43 p.m.
Snicksnork18 plenty of others ways to win. My primer gives details on many different lines we are able to come across to win the game. My personal favorite is creating infinite mana to capsize all opposing boards to leave them with nothing and bouncing your own Urza to make an army of infinitely large constructs and then leave up a trinisphere. Hard to lose at that state. But the easiest is to go about with either timetwister loops to force or opponents to draw their entire library's or to lock the board with double scepters and have infinite swans to combat attacking forces and to counter opposing threats til you turn and swing out.
June 21, 2019 4:54 p.m.
Also, I read why you chose to leave out Scroll Rack and I think you make a great argument. One question though, have you thought of its combo with Urza? Together, you can essentially get a new hand. Rack your hand away, shuffle your library with Urza, repeat each turn for a new hand. I totally understand why we don't care about top-deck manipulation, but full or partial hand manipulation is nasty in my opinion. I know Urza takes 5 mana to shuffle your deck and that is huge for cEDH, but I also know we are running every fetch land available to us. Pay 1 Life, shuffle your garbage away :)
June 22, 2019 1:21 a.m.
KailDaemon Hey there, I'm currently working on building this deck and I had a couple of card choice questions that I was wondering if you could clear up for me if you have time:
- Aether Spellbomb - Is there a combo with this or is it just in cause it's cheap utility?
- Chain of Vapor - Is it for a combo or just bounce because we're so permanent light?
- Narset's Reversal - Seems really limited in what it can target. Has it been good? Any combos with it?
- Gemstone Caverns - Thoughts on this? Too inconsistent?
- Intuition - What are your piles?
In my playgroup Top and Tabernacle are both banned sadly. What would you run over Top? Future Sight? Paradoxical Outcome ? Blue Sun's Zenith/Stroke?
I really like your build and the great discussions you've been having with folks in the comments. Thanks for putting this all together : - )
June 22, 2019 9:58 a.m.
@Khurtz thank you!
The spellbomb doubles as both a rock when Urza is out and for cheap removal and cantripping if we need it. No crazy combos with it just a good utility artifact. The same goes with chain of vapor, but this is more a political tool. Being able to two for one something at the right moment can be a blowout play, especially for its speed and mana cost. Narsets reversal is fantastic from my gameplay experience...being able to cast copies of spells you normally cant play in your colors is great, also is great tool in stack wars and interactions to manipulate the stack to your favor. It can also double as a combo piece for infinite spellcasts of "insert name" spell should we need to go that route. I've personally loved casting and ad nauseam off it when my opponent tried to go off and I was able to draw enough cards to stop his plan and win the game in the following turn. Fantastic tool. Gemstone caverns might be a future cut as I've never really found it to useful other than maybe being able to ramp out stuff every other mulligan. Intuition is card where i dont really have set piles at the moment but the deck has an incredible amount of certain redundant effects like our tutor package for ex. Casting an intuition can grab me something along the lines of fabircate/tribute mage/or transmute artifact...regardless of the choice I'll most likely be grabbing the isochron scepter. So it acts as a tutor for certain effects.. whether it's to grab an artifact or card draw or a piece of interaction to help in a counter war.
I would probably run something like outcome, stroke of genius or opt over the top of your playgroup banned the top. And yes key is mainly here for the top combo and probably will be cut from the deck in the weeks to come. Currently testing replacements so I'll have a definite answer for that soon. Draw power has been a slight concern for myself also and I've been thinking about actually adding in a time spiral or a recouring insight to help with this. Being able to hit these off Urza is sweet and the massive hand refills can push a win. If we have to hard cast them then it's not too terrible as mana is hardly ever an issue while Urza in on the battlefield.
Hope this helps man
June 22, 2019 10:33 a.m.
@mtgftw2014 all good man, it's been suggested but to slow to run here, for either effect. I added it to one of the budget builds as a means for ramp and be able to block tymna and the like.
Now scroll rack, I never thought to use it that way and that could have some merit...I'll be testing that to see if it can find a home here as it might just fix a problem I've been having. While it wont actually draw cards, the reload can be nice. Plus it taps for blue at it's worse while Urza is out
June 22, 2019 10:44 a.m.
KailDaemon Yah, those were my thoughts also.
As for lands, I might have mentioned that I'm an Arcum Dagsson player, so I know our playstyles will be different. However, have you ever considered manlands? They are a necessity for me, as I sacrifice them to Arcum, but they can also be used in a pinch as chump blockers and for metalcraft. Inkmoth Nexus and Blinkmoth Nexus are two examples. On a side note, my playstyle is rush out Arcum, then combo out. So some super helpful lands are the sac lands that provide more than one mana. City of Traitors , Svyelunite Temple , Saprazzan Skerry , and Crystal Vein are a few examples that put me a turn ahead when I need it the most, and a turn behind when it doesn't matter any more. Yes some enter tapped, but I still find it worth it turn 1 to play them if it means a turn 2 commander.
I do however understand the Back to Basics playstyle of wanting to maximize your basic lands. My apologies if you are already using any of these, they just came to mind so I'm writing them down.
June 25, 2019 1:15 a.m.
Any potential additions from M20? Seems like this set has a ton of EDH love and some good looking artifacts too.
June 26, 2019 9:09 p.m.
Not long ago, I ported my old Arcum list to Teferi, and now porting it over to my man Urza. Thanks for the Primer!
June 28, 2019 10:18 a.m.
I've been thinking about how fast Urza can go infinite with god hand. Turns out turn 1 win is possible lol
June 30, 2019 12:26 p.m.
Hey like the deck. Upgrading from Teferi and think i'm going to use most of this list. Would you mind explaining how the winds of rebuke infinite mill works? You suggested looping doing the same loop as the infinite bird swan song thing, but casting twister to get winds of rebuke back just shuffles everyone's graveyard back into their library, so that doesn't actually win the game. What am i missing?