- 4x Cryptbreaker
- 4x Haunted Dead
- 2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
- 4x Prized Amalgam
- 4x Relentless Dead
- 4x Voldaren Pariah Flip
you say the only thing you think you're missing is mass removal for token decks? how about Bile Blight, beautiful vs tokens.
October 2, 2016 3:41 a.m.
Crush of Tentacles is a great pseudo removal.:)
Plus, if you cast Cryptbreaker first, you'll get an 8/8 octopus with you.:)
October 3, 2016 5:12 p.m.
I feel Crush of Tentacles goes against the entire theme of the deck. Also a 6 (or 5) cost spell is not a recipe for success in this deck. Especially when I don't want all my zombies back in my hands, and have numerous tokens that I'd lose. Something like Biting Rain would not affect many of my bigger creatures, and I could easily retrieve Relentless Dead for 1 swamp.
The card definitely hurts me more than it helps me.
October 6, 2016 11:26 a.m.
You dont use it on your main deck. You use it as sideboard for faster decks. Think about it. You have Relentless Dead, Cryptbreaker, Haunted Dead and a couple of Prized Amalgams in the battlefield and you're up against token decks which are a lot faster than you are and you have 4 cards in hand namely Voldaren Pariah Flip, Grasp of Darkness, Cryptbreaker and Crush of Tentacles. You cast 1 Cryptbreaker then cast Crush of Tentacles for its surge cost. You get an 8/8 octopus and 8 cards in hand. End of turn you have 8 cards in hand. Discard Haunted Dead.
Opponents turn he's gonna cast back his creatures. Probably 2 minus the tokens. Remember this block also is artifact heavy so they're all gonna go back to your opponent's hand.
Back to your turn cast grasp and attack. Cast 2 cryptbreaker then get haunted dead back while discarding 2 amalgams in your endstep.
You will see it handy in most situation considering it can return artifacts and enchantments to their owner's hand.
October 6, 2016 12:55 p.m.
October 6, 2016 12:57 p.m.
Couple things I need to address, I read your comment and it seems like you're a bit confused about how the deck works.
1) This deck has 5-6 creatures on the board by turn 4. Sometimes more, if I can get the right hand. So there aren't a ton of faster aggro decks out there. Removing my tokens when have creatures like Voldaren Pariah Flip, seems counter intuitive. If I have Cryptbreaker on the table on turn 5, with Pariah in my hand, I'm discarding/casting Pariah and forcing the opponent to discard three creatures.
2) If their deck IS indeed faster than mine, then why would I return all of my permanents too? It will take me longer to get my creatures back out, than it will for them, EVEN with the discard tricks...etc. Not to mention, this 8/8 Octopus is completely random, as I would never have a Cryptbreaker still in my hand by turn 5, unless I got lucky and drew it that turn with Crush of Tentacles in my hand already. So I literally just reset the board and assisted a faster aggro deck.
3) Biting Rain removes his creatures (and some of mine, including Haunted Dead) from the table. I can do the same exact thing, except that Biting Rain is cheaper, more effective and ultimately skips the discard step and helps me 10x as much, in the fact that it wont remove Prized Amalgam from the table, or my Voldaren Pariah Flip forcing me to cast them again or do crazy graveyard tricks.
Gearhulks don't scare me... I have 16 ways to remove a creature from the board... 12 of them are Instant Speed. I'd sideboard in Lost Legacy to deal with Gearhulks before I subbed in a dang card that helps them recast the Gearhulk and have them use the ability against me, AGAIN.
October 6, 2016 1:05 p.m.
I appreciate the thought, but I just don't see the benefit of this card. It's horrible. You don't even sideboard it in your U/B deck that you play. lol
October 6, 2016 1:11 p.m.
Have you faced a mirror match that features diregraf colossus already? Or the new unlimited thopter token deck? You'll see how this card would help.
October 6, 2016 1:20 p.m.
I'm about to sideboard it lol. Im taking out 2 negate for it. Just played a while ago against that unli token deck and against vehicle deck. And yup... i definitely need one.
October 6, 2016 1:22 p.m.
Yes, I have faced a Mirror Match with Diregraf Colossus and without him... I used to play him too, but he's relatively useless for me, as I don't have enough creatures in my graveyard to make use of his counters much. I do love his ability to bring 2/2 Zombies on the board, but I can do that with Dark Salvation AND use it as removal. I found that I wanted more removal & board control with this deck, as it was consistently used more and far more effective.
Again, against those massive token decks -2/-2 to all has, and will continue to benefit me, far greater than returning all of stuff back to my hand. I'd still rather sideboard in Lost Legacy and just remove the endless token creating or buffing things, than waste my time with that silly spell.
In every single scenario you've given me, it's entirely too situational and seems far less beneficial.
October 6, 2016 1:30 p.m.
Hey man I thought Zombies decks had fallen out of style, but this looks like it's bringing them back strong...
I love the idea of Sinister Concoction here, it's one of my favorite card in my B/G Delirium deck.
Sweet deck +1!
November 3, 2016 1:42 p.m.
Thank you! I do appreciate it. I've had pretty much the same mainboard since EDM, but I've kept trying to update the sideboard to stay viable in the new metas. It still does fairly well.
November 3, 2016 3:47 p.m.
By EDM do you mean the same as EMN? Also what about Transgress the Mind? Another thought is that with Sinister Concoction and/or Haunted Dead it looks like you could reastically hit delirium, so maybe you might think about replacing Lost Legacy with Pick the Brain. Lost Legacy is great, but it can hurt that it can't hit Gearhulks/Aetherworks Marvel/Aetherflux Reservoir/Metalwork Colossus. Just something to consider.
November 3, 2016 4:36 p.m.
Yea, I'm sorry... LOL oops!
I have thought about Transgress the Mind, and ultimately I found that the majority of cards I was most worried about were things like Declaration in Stone and other control stuff. Most of the cheaper controls are actually far more of a concern for me than any of the Gearhulks or other big creatures, given the amount of removal I have.
In regards to Pick the Brain, I've gone back and forth with that myself and am kinda glad you brought it up... In my playtesting and FNM moments, I've found that Pick the Brain is good, but not optimal. I probably wont have Delirium by turn 3, and I won't have many cards to choose from after turn 3. At least with Lost Legacy I can choose at any time.
November 3, 2016 5:12 p.m.
have you tried Invasive Surgery? Best against board wipes and our common fear... Declaration in Stone. But as of my opinion, it's best added with Scrapheap Scrounger wince it is an artifact and a creature and will help you reach delirium. Just keep the invasive surg in your sideboard.
November 3, 2016 8:23 p.m.
On second thought, Lost Legacy sounds just fine and dandy.
November 3, 2016 10 p.m.
clark1424 -- Sorry I took a few days to respond, been dealing with an injured puppy. :(
In regards to Invasive Surgery, it's easily one of my favorite cards in Standard right now. I've been playtesting with it a little, but I can't quite pull the trigger yet. I am leaning more and more towards including it to deal with cards like Declaration in Stone and Collective Defiance.
We'll see how next weeks magic goes, and I'll give it some more testing. Thanks for the suggestion.
November 5, 2016 10:19 a.m.
To deal with cards like Declaration in Stone, you will need to cast a removal spell to kill your creature before DIS hits it. Back in the days before Kaladesh, i use cards like Altar's Reap or Grasp of Darkness to deal with it. You will find Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet a more as a bigger pain in the a$$ TBH since my cousin has a set of it in his deck... (coward move lol). If you need to go delirium sooner, well, it's been a problem to me as well but i can see that Contingency Plan may solve the problem.
Im sorry about your puppy Brofessor_X. I hope everything is well now.
November 5, 2016 10:43 a.m.
November 5, 2016 1:57 p.m.
Can't help but notice that you spell "horde" correctly in your deck title, then fail to in your description.
...with that out of the way, I don't really think Biting Rain is going to do much for you, it's a real no-bo with a lot of your creatures (yes, you can reanimate them, but still). I would suggest two Kalitas copies in the 75, as well (I spy two on your maybeboard).
November 7, 2016 12:07 p.m.
Hey! One suggestion I have is add a Geier Reach Sanitarium to this list. It is excellent filter and helps you get the right cards in the graveyard.
November 7, 2016 2:27 p.m.
Bovine073 -- It's supposed to be a play on words... Cause she hoards undead, but I can see you're not the first person to say this, so perhaps it's worth changing back since it's hard to sell the sarcastic hoard play without a foolish smile behind it. lol
Xak -- That is a great suggestion. Thank you!
November 8, 2016 7:20 a.m.
Brofessor_X I had thought of that, but it didn't make much sense to me. Well, that's the internet for you. :)
November 8, 2016 7:38 a.m.
I would also personally go down 2 Dark Salvation, 1Voldaren Pariah Flip, 2 Sinister Concoction, 1 Liliana, the Last Hope, and 2 Ruinous Path to put 2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in the main (if you have him), 4 Smuggler's Copter (if you have), and add 2 Swamp to boost your mana curve to more of a mid-range deck.
I don't think this deck is an agro deck so you want to get to a little higher mana. It's more grindy than aggro.
November 8, 2016 8:27 a.m.
Thanks for the further suggestions, Xak, but I will not be using Smuggler's Copter in this deck... I do have a playset, but I try to stick to a very particular theme with my decks. I often times avoid the "Optimal" choices for a more theme centralized idea.
With that said, I do like Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in this deck, and I do like the idea of more lands... I'm hoping that there is a good replacement for Kalitas come spring time when he cycles out, but perhaps I can playtest a bit more with Gisa and Geralf.
November 8, 2016 10:58 a.m.
November 8, 2016 11:05 a.m.
I think that is really cool Brofessor_X. I like themes in decks and I can defiantly respect that!
You are misinformed about rotation though. Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet doesn't rotate until a year from now due to the updated standard rotation WOTC announced a few weeks ago!(https://youtu.be/LAghYOHg_rU)
I am personally not a fan of Gisa and Geralf although I have never played with them. I had a friend build the deck and hate Gisa and Geralf, but then again he also hated Prized Amalgam... It's always great to experiment!
November 8, 2016 11:11 a.m.
Kalitas, I believe I said. Or more spot removal of some kind. I mean, it's whatever works for your deck, I haven't played with it, just simply think Biting Rain won't work well.
November 8, 2016 11:12 a.m.
Though, after further investigation, I could be wrong... http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/revisiting-standard-rotation-2016-10-19
It would seem they are doing once a year rotation instead... This is fantastic news, but a big confusing at to which sets will be available until they get into the pattern.
November 8, 2016 11:26 a.m.
Brofessor_X -- this is the articles that was posted on the main site http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/revisiting-standard-rotation-2016-10-19
According to this they are reverting the change to the standard rotation, and going back to the old rotation. I bet they just haven't launched it officially.
November 8, 2016 11:32 a.m.
Brofessor_X It goes 5, 6, 7, 8 (sets in standard) then rotation at next set. I remember seeing a chart of what is coming and defines the rotation, but I can not find the article :P
November 8, 2016 11:34 a.m.
I enjoy the fact that I'll be able to play the deck for another year, but I'm saddened that the entire deck will cycle out at the same time. Hopefully some more undead release or something to make it viable.
Though, I'm seriously enjoying my Dwarven Pilots deck, and will enjoy playing it for 20 months.
November 8, 2016 11:41 a.m.
I like Dwarven Pilots. Nice spin on the RW vehicles adding more dwarves making a good tribal deck.
I'm happy that my deck Temur Delerium "Energy Combo" stays together for the most part. I'm hoping for another Languish to come into the format, so I can go back to playing Esper Control and justify playing the black.
November 8, 2016 11:45 a.m.
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|Date added||5 months|
|Last updated||4 months|
This deck is Standard legal.
|Folders||#Top Standard Decks, zombies, Deck ideas I like, U/B (Dimir), Cool Black, Graveyard, Neat, wanted decks, UB|
|Top rank||#30 on 2016-11-12|