Frank_Glascock & BarbeChenue: Here is my completely untested no greed list for more interactive games

Lilbrudder, do you have plans to combine both lists? Better put, are you working towards making a list that you would play in a competitive tournament. I realize BarbeChenue is in the process of doing this.

I think if I were to enter a competitive tourney this would be my go too list. It has more answers and more ways to fight through disruption. Every game Barbechenue has played in the tourney has been a grind so a more resilient deck is needed that can answer multiple stax pieces and disrupt other people's combo turns. I will keep both lists, because I love the all in nature of yawgmoth's engine. It will likely be my Trice list for random pods as it is more explosive. Having 2 lists gives people more idea of what changes to make to cater thier deck if they want to be more proactive or reactive. In other words, having two lists deliniates the essential vs. borderline cards.

I want to build a competitive deck, but I am not sure which one, I have most of the pieces except Twister/Seal/Candelabra/Grim. I really like your lists, I was tempted to play your FC Sidisi, but it looks like you have moved past that one. In your opinion which would be the most competitive without the 4 expensive staples I listed above, and don't say Yisan, my meta is heavy creature hate, so that would not would not work at all.

trancer99: Thank you :-) Yeah in the end food chain sidisi is just a bad food chain Tazri. Now that does not make it a bad deck by any means as FC Tazri is amazing, there is just no reason to play Sidisi over Tazri besides novelty and suprise factor. My Paradox storm decks are almost a full turn faster on average. Yawgmoth's Engine is a legit turn 2-3 deck whereas food chain sidisi is a turn 3-4 deck. It is better in almost every possible way.

Losing the 4 cards you mentioned does not hurt the deck much at all as none of them are essential and all of them have budget replacements.

Timetwister is my least favorite wheel by a wide margin. It is easily replaced with Whispering Madness which goes better with Waste Not.

Imperial Seal can be replaced with Lim-Dul's Vault.

Candelabra of Tawnos Isn't even worth a spot in this list imo so replace it with literally anything.

Grim Tutor can be replaced by Dark Petition or Praetor's Grasp, which goes in and out of my list.

These changes simply make the deck a bit slower and less consistent at times, but you will still have the ability to pull off turn 2-4 wins with great consistency as well as grind out slower wins. It is so much better than any other deck I have made. It also makes for a very competitive budget brew

Lilbrudder, can you go over the rationale behind the changes from Yagmoth's Engine to this decklist? For example, I assume Copy Artifact was omitted because it can be situational.

It would be of great benefit to me to learn which of the interactive cards was your last to include. So, if I wanted to add Lim-Dul's Vault, the weakest removal card could be taken out of the list.

How much of BarbeChenue's experiences in the tournament shaped the transition from the Yagmoth's Engine list to this more interactive list?

Your percentage of counterspell backup in your combo turns was around 15-20% with Yagmoth's Engine. Did you find that was to inconsistent outside of gold fishing?

Yeah the color requirement for copy artifact makes it uncastable at times. The reason why I updated this list had less to do with being unhappy with Yawgmoth's Engine and more with giving people a playstyle option. Not everyone likes to play so aggressively and yes the tourney has heavily influenced this list. The biggest factor though is if you look at the top combo decks in the format, they have plenty of interaction, so I wanted to make the deck on par with the best on that dimension. If you want to cut a card for lim dul's vault I would suggest into the roil or natural state.

Heya. Why drop Sylvan Library? Surely that's a useful card.

Glad to see JVP in both lists. One of the best cards in the format.

... Also, if you like "interaction" in "top combo decks," may I suggest...

Breya Ad naus?

mmcgeach: Sylvan Library is very good no doubt. I cut it for baby jace, but the argument could be made to include both. Breya Ad Naus is definitely one of the top combo decks too. It deserves far more recognition than it is currently getting. Breya has more risky combos and is a little slower than Thrasios, but the tutor density and interaction suite is top notch. I will take a look at your list again later today.

I try very hard to ensure I never put a land into play with Thrasios' ability. This deck hates lands. Lotus cobra is a very good card. It just doesn't fit well here.

I have decided to build a similar deck (never ran storm before, but your list was very inspiring). Out of curiosity, do you think it would be worth including a backup win condition in case Aetherflux Reservoir somehow gets exiled? And if so, what would you cut for it? I play against Eldrazi quite a bit and I would be very sad to see an Oblivion Sower take my only win condition. I saw in your other list a discussion for Codex Shredder which seemed compelling enough to warrant my attention. And I guess Laboratory Maniac is also a possibility but he doesn't really synergize with anything in the deck other than if you have already made infinite mana and drawn your entire library. Either way +1 for the excellent primer.

Decrepit_Angel: Thank you! I personally always like a plan B. If you play against eldrazi Codex Shredder probably won't work due to the original legends shuffle effects. Fortunately you have plenty of options in that department. I really like Walking Ballista because its a 0 cost spell for ad naus and engine untap but can also serve as overcosted creature removal. It only wins once we go infinite but that pretty easily achieved.

Labman isn't great but he does 2 card combo with a staple in this list Tainted Pact so hes not useless outside his backup win condition.

If you know your meta well and your opponents have cards you can use to win the game (i.e reservoir, ballista, labman, tendrils, grapeshot,comet storm; exsanguate, stroke of genius etc) then praetor's grasp is the best possible card for a backup win condition as it replaces it self and serves as a grim tutor with upside. You can steal opponents mana crypt, felwar stone, wheel of fortune effects, ad nauseam, or even interaction spells depending on your needs. It is by far the most useful card on its own.

Lastly one other option that produces no "dead cards" is a timetwister loop scenario. You can keep looping Reality Shift to exile all opponents libraries. Reality Shift can do this on its own if imprinted on scepter with engine in play as long as your opponents play alot of creatures. If you truly have no budget, Candelabra of Tawnos can be used instead of Beast Within as an enabler it can untap Forbidden Orchard on the combo turn to "gift" an opponent a creature.

If you play in a creature heavy meta then I would suggest reality shift. If you play in a UBx style spellslinger meta use grasp.

Lilbrudder, can you explain how this works?

"Lastly one other option that produces no "dead cards" is a timetwister loop scenario. You can keep looping Reality Shift to exile all opponents libraries."

1) Ok so go infinite and draw your deck with Thrasios, which will put forbidden orchard into play tapped.

2) untap it with candlesticks a couple times if necessary to give every opponents a creature.

3) Now cast reality shift to exile a creature from opponent A they manifest the top card of thier library.

4) Cast timetwister draw your deck again until you get reality shift and timetwister to hand

5) Repeat step 3 and 4 until opponent A has no library and a 2/2 creature in play

6) Repeat steps 3-5 until opponents B and C are in a similar predicament.

7) Pass turn

8) gg

Honestly that is the hard way. The easy way is imprint reality shift on scepter once engine is in play and just exile everything all at once. The fact that I can replace a card I hate (codex shredder) and my worst removal spell (natural state) with another ok removal spell a color fixer and still have a solid backup win condition in case reservoir goes bye bye makes me think this is what I will do.

Does it involve Thrasios + infinite mana = draw your entire deck? Then you can cast Reality Shift and Timetwister and repeat using Thrasios to again draw your entire deck.

Crap, you are bringing it today Lilbrudder. I am just too slow.

Yes you use thrasios to keep drawing your deck :-)

Lilbrudder: Thank you for the advice. Codex Shredder is definitely a no for my meta then. I forgot that the old titans did that.

Out of the current list the only things I am missing are the Timetwister and a few of the dual lands. However, If I am not mistaken, the Reality Shift combo can also be done with Noxious Revival, Regrowth, and Thrasios so that is still a reasonable win condition (cast Reality Shift, Noxious Revival it to top of library, draw it with Thrasios. Regrowth the Noxious Revival. Noxious Revival the Regrowth, draw with Thrasios. Repeat until opponents are dead).

I will likely end up trying out Walking Ballista as a backup win condition, but it is nice to know that there are many other options if I decide that I do not like it.

I dont think you can loop the Reality Shift that way but I could be mistaken. You can loop regrowth and noxious revival with Thrasios but not get another card out of it. Either way I just realized lightning bolt can win without candelabra so that is what I am running from now on. Also Frank_Glascock I forgot you need to regrowth or noxious revival timetwister to bring it back to hand for the loop I described

You are right. I was sequencing it in my head wrong. You can get one extra use out of the Reality Shift (or any spell for that matter) but then you are stuck looping the other two. Timetwister is necessary to actually win with the Reality Shift combo.

And one more question now that I thought of it. What do you normally tutor for with Intuition? I have never ran the card before and it seems like the type of card you need to set up so that there is no right answer for your opponent so I am guessing that Yawgmoth's Will should be one of the choices. Perhaps Regrowth and whatever other combo piece you needed.

3 wheels is a popular choice. 3 rocks, 3 removal spells, or if I have yawgwin in hand 3 combo pieces (ex mana vault+engine+sensei's divining top) because I will get all three the next turn. I dont put yawgmoth's will in my intuition piles though instead I use noxious revival and regrowth on my opponents endstep so at worst I pay 2 for the card next turn to ensure I get one piece I need. If someone is about to win put force of will in the pile as someone will give it to you. Beyond that its too situationally based to describe

I figured that it would usually just be situational but the scenarios you described are still helpful. Thank you again for your advice.

Heya Lilbrudder, I've been playing something based on this list. Been really good for me, actually (6-0 in competitive prize matches, although I've lost other matches).

Two things. 1) Did you consider Rushing River for the Into the Roil spot?

2) how do you feel about Dark Confidant or his little brother Night's Whisper?

mmcgeach: Thank you for the update. I am glad you are having success with your Thrasios brew. I have considered Dark Confidant. He is a very good card but he is not an ideal fit here since he does not tap for value. Night's Whisper is in my experience very solid but fairly low impact. The type of cards I value are either spells or something that has a big effect like a wheel or combo piece. I don't generally utilize many incremental draw engines if that makes sense. I have never seen rushing roil before, that is pretty cool. My only issue is the cc and I like the option of drawing a card. I will definitely test it tho to see how it performs.