- 1x Abrupt Decay
- 1x Arcane Denial
- 1x Autumn's Veil
- 1x Brainstorm
- 1x Cyclonic Rift
- 1x Dark Ritual
- 1x Demonic Consultation
- 1x Dispel
- 1x Flusterstorm
- 1x Force of Will
- 1x Frantic Search
- 1x Gush
- 1x Insidious Dreams
- 1x Intuition
- 1x Lim-Dul's Vault
- 1x Mental Misstep
- 1x Mystical Tutor
- 1x Nature's Claim
- 1x Noxious Revival
- 1x Pact of Negation
- 1x Predict
- 1x Quicken
- 1x Spell Pierce
- 1x Swan Song
- 1x Unsubstantiate
- 1x Vampiric Tutor
- 1x Arbor Elf
- 1x Birds of Paradise
- 1x Bloom Tender
- 1x Deathrite Shaman
- 1x Elves of Deep Shadow
- 1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
- 1x Laboratory Maniac
- 1x Bayou
- 1x Bloodstained Mire
- 1x Blooming Marsh
- 1x Breeding Pool
- 1x City of Brass
- 1x Command Tower
- 1x Flooded Strand
- 1x Forbidden Orchard
- 1x Forest
- 6x Island
- 1x Mana Confluence
- 1x Marsh Flats
- 1x Misty Rainforest
- 1x Overgrown Tomb
- 1x Polluted Delta
- 1x Scalding Tarn
- 1x Swamp
- 1x Tropical Island
- 1x Underground Sea
- 1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- 1x Vault of Whispers
- 1x Verdant Catacombs
- 1x Watery Grave
- 1x Windswept Heath
- 1x Wooded Foothills
- 1x Day's Undoing
- 1x Demonic Tutor
- 1x Doomsday
- 1x Farseek
- 1x Gitaxian Probe
- 1x Nature's Lore
- 1x Personal Tutor
- 1x Ponder
- 1x Preordain
- 1x Regrowth
- 1x Time Spiral
- 1x Toxic Deluge
- 1x Whispering Madness
- 1x Windfall
- 1x Yawgmoth's Will
Comments View Archive
Congrats on the recent success :-) As I mentioned in my other post I am vacating my DD Leo build for a combo that is closer to how I like to play magic, so this niche is all yours bud. May it continue to serve you well.
January 28, 2017 9:24 a.m.
Hey, looks looks like a cool deck! I love consultation as an alt. wincon to doomsday.
I think the Future Sight/Helm/Top combo is a bit slow and clunky for this deck. requires you to play Sight and Tendrils, both of which aren't great on their own. why not slot in Ad Naus instead and beef up on some more 1 CMC counters? I think you could smooth the curve out a but and win a lot of games with Naus.
Engine seems reall neat here, since you're a bit more stormy than my deck. Really cool card.
Am I missing something with Anvil? One blind Thoughtseize per turn seems pretty low impact. I'm sure itll grind out wins eventually, but I like to be a bit more proactive.
Wild Growth is pretty interesting here. do you ever need to be that fast? I was under the impression the deck wants to play a little slower. Still, you deck is stormier so it may be good for that reason.
Ive never been barve enough to do Insidious Dreams. Always imagined it'd run straight into a counter and Mind Twist me. Does this deck really need that risk with all the decent 1 CMC tutors and draw power? Cutting this would make Naus smoother too.
why reanimate? wont other decks always have better creatures?
Mind's desire would be a great one to consider if you are going for storm. It's less useful to me, but you could get a lot of value. Aetherflux Reservoir too.
What I like about my deck is that it shaves a lot of extraneous wincons and goes all in on DDay. Every other slot is cheap counters and draw, with one slot set aside for puzzle box so Leo can make way for DDay on his own. Although I admit im not an expert, and the archetype has room to grow, my overall take on your deck is that it's trying to do a little too much with the heavy storm package and the Fututre Top combo. Leo makes a naturally good control general, so I prefer to use that to my advantage and set up less complicated, more consistent, cheaper DDay wins when I know the coast is clear. I guess one way to look at it is that while my deck is more all-in on DDay, yours is a more all-in combo deck, and has to play a few sub-par cards because of that, whereas mine can afford to be a bit more consistent.
Still, I learned a lot from your list, and I'll be testing out a bunch of new stuff! Thanks for having a look at my list.
January 31, 2017 10:44 a.m.
Thanks for the comments JMCraig! After seeing how much success I am having using DD, I was starting to think if I still need the storm combo.
It isn't as clunky as it seems though. I use Insidious Dreams to set up the entire combo and is surprisingly effective. In this sense, it is pretty much like DD but a bit safer. If DD gets disrupted, I lose. With this one, however, there is still enough room for a comeback especially with cards like Necropotence and Sylvan Library. I sometimes add Yawgmoth's Will to the Dream pile as a contigency plan. It is a turn slower but it seems like a good backup plan in case the LabMan gets exiled, stolen, etc.
I have been toying with the idea of just taking Tendrils out since the Labman can sub for it but it brings me back to the problem of making the deck rely too much on the LabMan to win.
The Ad Naus is a meta call. I was using it in the earlier versions of the deck but my meta has aggro players who tries to get rid of me ASAP. This makes AD a couple of turns too slow or just unusable due to my low life total.
I agree on your criticisms and Leovold does well in protecting the DD combo but I am having a ton of difficulty keeping him on the board. I guess it has a lot to do with my playgroup wherein we have guys with fast, removal heavy decks made for Duel Commander in multiplayer games.
Again, thanks for the comments. I will be paying a lot of attention to your deck from now on. Please feel free to leave suggestions in the future.
January 31, 2017 5:01 p.m.
The points about protecting leo from aggro make sense to me. I'd be inclined to add in Pongify/Turn to Frog, Fatal Push/more black removal to keep that in check and allow for a smooth naus since you're still using mostly 1-drops. There's just so much value there! It's like Insidious Dreams but you don't Mind Twist yourself!
My main question is though, why no reservoir? you may not ever use it to kill anyone, but you will gain plenty of life incidentally and at that point, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised just how easy it is to kill at least one opponent. It adds a little redundancy to the storm plan while also being a solid value choice throughout the game. Maybe replace Tendrils, which can be a bit of a turd when it's not lethal.
January 31, 2017 6:41 p.m.
Reservoir has been suggested in the past and I have tried it for a short time (replacing Tendrils) but it never seemed to work as well as it sounded in theory. I might be misunderstanding how most people use it though so i'll give it another try. It sounds a lot more viable with Ad Nauseam but again, i'm playing against really fast Zurgo and Kytheon decks. They aren't fast enough to kill me before I combo off, but they deal just enough damage to make Naus very ineffective. Outside the FS combo and Ad Nause, is it would be possible for me to get enough storm counts to win using the Reservoir?
Oh and to address your earlier post, this deck goes balls to the walls. I really try to make it as fast as possible for the reasons stated above.
January 31, 2017 7:32 p.m.
Reservoir needs <10 spells per turn to kill someone, and represents solid incremental life-gain and a real threat when it's building up. That makes it better than tendrils to me. You can prob nuke the aggro deck at the table just by spamming rituals and cantrips while on the way to a combo. Unless your meta is way more aggro than i imagine, in which case i totally understand the struggle!
January 31, 2017 8:04 p.m.
I see. But at 5 cmc, i'm not sure I can get it on the board early enough for it to be better than the Insidious Dreams to Future Sight to Tendrils combo. That one is a guaranteed win compared to Reservoir that takes a while. It will more or less end up giving me the same value as Tendrils.
I think I will use baby Jace. It seems to make more sense now that I am using DD.
January 31, 2017 9:58 p.m.
Res is only 4 FWIW, but i guess i see your point.
Jace is an allstar! Something I've learned is that you dont need to loot every turn, especially if you want to keep him from flipping so you can save him for opening a pile. Alternately, just flash back a Brainstorm and do it that way! loads of utility.
January 31, 2017 10:07 p.m.
I have a few thoughts. Baby jace is a very good inclusion. I see you still have engine and top. If you add just one more card Kiora's Follower or Voltaic Key you can draw your entire deck. Follower seems more appropriate for your build given it can tap for BUG and does great things with your best dork Bloom Tender and baby jace. Also given you have ABUR duals and 8 basic islands High Tide is worth an include imo as it is a great and efficient mid game ritual that will help you pay for future sight and whir of invention.
February 1, 2017 12:53 p.m.
Tide is a fantastic card, and worth a look. it singlehandedly justifies Scroll in my opinion. Kior'as follower seems really interesting too. I may try to find a slot.
I'm currently most curious about Intuition though. the usual line is Regrow, Noxious and your target card getting you access to any card in the deck and any card in the GY (assuming you're given regrow). BUT there is plenty of room for techy GY interactions here, and gaining access to 3 fresh cards could be very solid. with Regrow/Nox/Yawg in hand, it's basically a tutor 3, get 2/3 of them. Any of you guys try it out?
February 1, 2017 2:30 p.m.
Intuition followed by Yawgmoth's Will is insane. With enough ramp it is a guaranteed win with either the engine or future sight combo. Regrowth and noxious revival are pretty nice if you want one specific piece. I also liked going for 3 different wheels and cracking LED in response to casting inruition to immediately cast the wheel afterwards. It is a difficult card to navigate at times, but its well worth the trouble in the right builds.
February 1, 2017 2:41 p.m.
I'm testing it out for mine but it's still a pretty new deck for me and it has a few secrets left for me. that wheel line is hilarious though. may include it just for that!
February 1, 2017 2:56 p.m.
Intuition is one of my favorite cards in my Oona deck. I haven't been able to use it as much here but I like the ideas you guys are pointing out.
February 1, 2017 4:25 p.m.
Correct you will draw a card and top from the top of your library. When you recast top engine untaps follower and the rock/dork needed to cast Top. Its a very efficient combo.
February 1, 2017 5:32 p.m.
Very interesting. I like the way that the Engine works as an alternative to Helm of Awakening in the Future Sight combo while having it's own combo with the Top and Kiora's Follower.
JMCraig's comment on the deck trying too many things with the DD Storm win cons is still something I am mulling over though.
Now for the harder part -making cuts. Lol. I'll need two slots. I'm going to try baby Jace and Kiora's follower. Any suggestions? I'm looking at Time Spiral as a possible cut for one
I am loving the discussions and suggestions. Please keep them coming.
February 1, 2017 6:49 p.m.
I'd keep Spiral. It's a fantastic Storm enabler with natural Leo synergy. Best wheel after Twister.
I'd cut Street Wraith, bc he's not needed for DDay piles if you have Probe, Yawg and LED. Ive seen it run in budget DDay decks bc it can make piles work without LED< but you dont need it otherwise. and it's just plain jank on its own.
my other cut would be either Wild Growth or Elves of Deep Shadow, since you dont need more ramp in your off colors. getting the turn 2 leo isnt a very crucial line in a lot of games, and when it is, you can always get there with Birds/Moxen. Autumns Veil, Arcane denial, and Careful study all could work too.
And i'd still test out Tendrils > Aetherflux while youre at it!
February 1, 2017 7:06 p.m.
Yeah there is a natural synergy between those two combos. Honestly I would cut demonic consultation. I also agree on street wraith
February 1, 2017 7:38 p.m.
Why cut Demonic Consultation? It seems like a very efficient way to win.
I have also been thinking of cutting Street Wraith. Being new to using DD, what is the ideal number of DD piles to have in a deck? I have found the Predict, Lab Maniac, GP, Unearth, Street Wraith pile to be quite effective.
February 1, 2017 9:48 p.m.
Ive got a little write up on my list Doomsday Leovold. Predict is old hat, wraith is for people who dont have diamond, but youure on the right path. Gush/Frantic search is the new one. usually either free or very cheap, not counting the opener, and you can modify it easily to get around stuff like countermagic and no GY/Yawg. best part is, no bad cards like predict! have a look!
February 1, 2017 10:13 p.m.
It is but consultation is probably not something you cast except with labman in play. The risk to value ratio is much lower outside FC decks with using consultation as a tutor, and you expressed concern about going in too many directions. You have DD and Future sight/engine/top. Thats two distinct win conditions. Do you need a second Labman win condition with limited utility on its own?
February 1, 2017 10:15 p.m.
My deck doesnt run Future Sight or Engine. Im all in on DDay>Labman. This may be a mistake, but iplay enough counter and control stuff that i usually have no problem establishing control then forcing a win through (esp after Mind Twisting the table!)
If i wanted a second one, it wouldnt be Lab Man based tho, since he could still be exiled somehow to shut me down. I'd prob add dramatic scepter, Druid, or even some Engine thing over Consultation/Pact.
February 1, 2017 10:23 p.m.
Very cool deck +1 from me!
February 4, 2017 2:34 a.m.
You might consider playing Woodland Cemetery, Drowned Catacomb, Hinterland Harbor since you are playing the full set of Duals and Fetchlands. You might even think about Snow-Covered Forest, Snow-Covered Island and Snow-Covered Swamp to add Tainted Pact to the deck.
Otherwise, nice deck!
February 15, 2017 7:24 p.m.
Man! Now this is a tight list. Well put together sir! I saw that you were looking for Mana fixing for the list, and if I may be so bold to make some suggested cuts/ additions. Carpet of Flowers is substantially better in a 2 color deck list. There's just not enough islands for you to have it main deck. Have you checked out Burgeoning ? Its absolutely rediculous card advantage/ ramp. So honestly the only substantial suggestions I could make for this sweet looking list would be:-1 Carpet of Flowers +1 Burgeoning-1 Insist +1 Storm Cauldron-1 Nature's Lore +1Horn of Greed
This should allow you to adjust your manabase to allow for a more diversified and less island intensive list, while also allowing you to have a substantial leg up on card advantage and Mana as well in a multiplayer setting. Also if you can get a hold of it and find a place for it, Lotus Cobra with those 3 cards is busted. Cheers, and a +1 from me!! Thanks for your suggestions on my nekusar list :)
February 15, 2017 7:28 p.m.
That makes it even worse :) thanks for pointing that out. Sorry I just worked a 12 hour shift , little loopy. So unless your playing against a monoblue or 2 color blue deck your not going to get the kind of Mana fixing needed.
February 15, 2017 7:49 p.m.
QKey, The problem I have with filter lands and Reflecting Pool is that they don't produce colored mana if you play them on the first turn. I want and need to get the most out of the first two turns because I often try to go for the win between turns 3 to 5.
The check lands might work though. Considering the importance of getting 2 Islands to my win con, how many of them do you think I can lose in favor of the check lands?
Burgeoning is nice and it was in the deck along with Exploration but I really don't run enough lands to really take advantage of it consistently.
Your suggestions are more for a slower control-ish type of gameplay which I like. Unfortunately, my meta has a good mix of aggro and control who are all conspiring to take me out ASAP. This has forces me to go balls to the walls every single game.
I appreciate the suggestions guys. I might not be able to include all of them but they will certainly be considered in future "recalibrations" of the deck.
February 16, 2017 1:15 a.m.
You said you needed some help with your mana base but honestly, you have something pretty close to a completely optimized tri-color landbase. If you only need the color very briefly, you might get away with Tendo Ice Bridge and Aether Hub. Exotic Orchard and Reflecting Pool can give you the heavy multi-color requirements you need (but are terrible on T1). I've also seen Tarnished Citadel used in these extremely fast and high-devotion decks.
On another topic, I might cut the remaining basic lands in your deck and add a Hermit Druid combo package, since you have so few basics anyway.
Hope that's helpful! :)
February 16, 2017 3:13 p.m.
I'm not so sure about the other cards for the same reasons you gave but Tarnished Citadel just might work.
Hermit Druid is interesting. I have seen a lot of players use it but making it stick on the board long enough to be useful looks quite hard, if not impossible, in a multiplayer game. Have you ever tried it?
February 16, 2017 6:37 p.m.
Megalomania: I've never built Leovold, but I've played him in other decks. In the end, I find that if I can bait a removal/counterspell with a 2-mana spell he's served his purpose. If he survives a turn cycle (not impossible if he comes down T1 or T2) you straight-up win.
February 16, 2017 7:10 p.m.
The problem with Hermit Druid is he needs alot of other cards to work. Most those cards are useless (i.e Fatestitcher; Narcomoeba) on thier own, unlike doomsday, which has mostly useful cards in its piles (i.e Gitaxian Probe; Yawgmoth's Will).
To include both combos would dilute the deck since there is little synergy between the two. HD wouldnt be bad if you went bare bones with it and used him primarily as bait. With Memory's Journey and Deep Analysis you can form a mini dd pile of Gitaxian Probe, Dark Ritual, and Yawgmoth's Will. Just mill your deck, flashback journey, and then analysis in the graveyard you can draw into ritual and then cast yawgwin to win the game off your rocks, rituals, and labman.
At the end of the day though your better off building more around engine than anything else. Its takes almost no dead card slots to have approximately 7-8 overlapping and easy to assemble combos that win the game consistently on turns 3-4.
February 16, 2017 8:04 p.m.
First off, I think you gave me cancer. As for actual advice... Volrath's Dungeon could work. Other than that no real ideas
February 16, 2017 10:03 p.m.
February 17, 2017 6:21 a.m.
Not sure whether mentioned previously, have you considered 'Transmute' creatures such as Netherborn Phalanx for tutoring, as they have dual usage? Very nice deck, but sadly too costly for me :(
March 1, 2017 7:52 a.m.
Solid list, the only card that seems slightly questionable to me is Insidious Dreams it's a good card, but I feel as though it gets outclassed by Vampiric Tutor. Also Talisman of Dominance seems a little out-of-place, but I'm not all that familiar with it.
As said before, good deck and I think it deserves an upvote from me!
March 14, 2017 11:47 p.m.
Thanks! Comments as well as upvotes are very much appreciated.
I use Insidious Dreams to setup the Future Sight Combo. It can also be used to launch the Doomsday combo given that I have enough mana.
March 15, 2017 1:16 a.m.
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|Date added||4 months|
|Last updated||1 week|
This deck is Commander / EDH legal.
|Tokens||1/1 Spirit, Jace, 1/1 Bird|
|Folders||Commander, EDH decks, Interesting Decks, Decks I Like, Competitive decks, Fun, Commanderdecks that do not suck, Decks to Model, Edh, Decks I Like|