Another question I was thinking of is - What is a winning Intuition pile in this deck?

That depends on what the hand and board is. For example if you have flash in hand, a winning pile would be hulk/body double/necromancy. With Najeela in play it could be Derevi and two reanimator spells...there's a lot of options including bluffing piles

DexztrO I have altered fbb REBs and in general I like that artwork better than any pyroblast printing so far. In this deck it's definitely irrelevant and in similarly rare niche cases it could just as well be an upside...for example target changing effects might have a problem with redirecting REB if there aren't any other blue cards in play or on the stack. I think it makes absolutely no difference for me besides the look.

How do you like to use Eldritch Evolution? What is a common line and/or best case?

Is the answer Derevi or "depends what you have on board and in hand?"

volcanic this is from my update on October 10th:

"I'm currently testing Eldritch Evolution instead of Druids' Repository. It could get Derevi from a dork, also Loyal Retainers, Edric, Tymna, Manglehorn, Mindcensor, Oddsmaker...from a cmc 3 creature it would get reanimation in the form of Karmic Guide/Body Double or Felidar/Kiki if that's a better choice. It would mostly get the backup combo, gas or reanimation, which is why I will try swapping it in for the standalone backup combo piece . The background for the choice is that I can't remember having won a game with repository so far."

So, the answer is that it can get a few different effects from basically every lower cmc creature. It turned out to be good in testing, more effective than repository and leading to faster wins in more difficult situations.

So I really like the deck and I would like to build it at budget. I sebe the budget version, but I am missing replacement for Gilded Drake namely against Linvala, Keeper of Silence disrupting my combo. Isn't there any similar card?

mk102 I don't think there's anything that can be used instead in the hulk lines because the next best alternative might be Banisher Priest or Fairgrounds Warden and they cost 1 too much to be used along with spellseeker and seer. If you have Najeela in play you might get priest and derevi with hulk and just attack when Linvala is gone...either way, being able to play drake gives you quite a few options that a budget build won't have. But then, I have Fire Covenant there, which I don't feel is necessary in the bugetless version.

Sorry if I missed this from previous comments but what are your thoughts on Grand Abolisher or Vexing Shusher to add more protection?

Also, Green Sun's Zenith over Summoner’s Pact?

rgwenceslao but how can you get Protean Hulk in hand to Flash combo with Green Sun's Zenith for the turn 1 win?

Silence?

SynergyBuild, sorry for comparing GSZ with summoner’s. GSZ is really more of getting cards like Derevi into play or just any dorks.

I have never heard of fetching a Derevi with it. Dorks are bad compared to Dryad Arbor, with GSZ it is a 0 cmc land you can fetch. Hermit Druid is another popular option, where have you been playing cEDH?

Sorry about being creative here. I know the Arbor route but GSZ also is a nice way of cheating Derevi in. It’s not as powerful here because it’s not really for the flash hulk line. But I understand. I’m not forcing it in, I was just asking for thoughts. People can still be nicer next time.

How about Silence or Vexing Shusher? Grand Abolisher might be too much for the use of two white.

rgwenceslao I think I have explained somewhere why I didn't play grand abolisher. It's because the most problematic part is getting hulk to die and afterwards there's a lot less interaction in my experience. If you started the hulk lines by fetching stuff with Razaketh, you have a counterspell anyway. If you start with body double you get the sac outlet in play and then you can keep priority and get the 2nd hulk trigger. People might remove the sac outlet in response to make the 2nd fetch a value fetch (I cut the 2nd sac outlet because in all the games I had played this basically never happened). The worst case scenario is that I get Derevi and maybe Edric then. If Najeela is already in play with one or two tokens it's still a winning threat and otherwise Edric just refills the hand quickly for another kill attempt. It might also be Derevi and a hatebear if it's post-combat or another player's turn, to prevent losing and try to kill in the following turn. If someone tries to interact later in the hulk lines it's often too late because I can either play around it or the board is already set in a way that enables another kill attempt without having to cast anything...however, people will always try to prevent that hulk dies in the first place, especially people who don't know the deck, because there might be a grand abolisher or sylvan safekeeper showing up and then it would be too late.

As for GSZ > pact, I don't play pact at all at the moment. This deck is a zero risk hulk, which means that you never put yourself into a position in which you would die to your own setup (or have to take action to prevent that) if you fail to win. GSZ isn't strong here because it's expensive to get actually relevant creatures with it (Derevi for example) and that is cheaper done with Eldritch Evolution . As SynergyBuild correctly said, it also won't search for a hulk.

I might play pact and also lotus petal to push the speed a little bit more, but it also makes me take a risk that is currently not even there. It probably depends on what you expect from your opponents. I usually assume that people try to counter my first kill attempt but do so at the cost of not being able to win themselves (which is in line with my testing experience so far), so I built the deck in a way that makes it easy to throw out possible kills each or every 2nd turn, once it is set up and not to go all in with the first attempt. It's an option though and I might just test it sometimes and see how it goes. I will also try to find a slot for the new Lavinia when the new set is released.

Thanks for the clarification. I have tested this in paper only a little over 5 times and my initial impression is that, my board state always looks aggressive so the tendency is all my opponents leave untapped lands/mana producers after their respective turns. I still can’t seem to find proper timing for the win. So, I’m actually trying to focus on its instant win. The reason why I thought of Silence is that you can cast it on an opponent’s upkeep and try to convince the pod that you are trying to prevent a that specific player to combo off. Then when they resolve it, you go on with the kill. Grand Abolisher was next on my mind because creatures are usually harder to counter especially on a cedh pod. And Flash is definitely way easier to counter.

The deck is really consistent with having a specific win route in hand, it’s just protecting it and timing that I need to improve on. I am also more focused on Najeela win cons for now, maybe because I have a couple of creatureless focused cedh decks so I kinda enjoy the beating people’s faces route.

rgwenceslao it depends on how the opponents play imo. If the oppoents try to push for their own win, you should do the same and just be faster and use the spaces when everyone pumps out their ramp and setup. If people appear to play carefully and have mana open in the early game it can mean they have answers or they just don't have such a fast start. I'm personally a rather aggressive player overall and I would just test if the opponents really do have answers in the early game, because chances are high that they don't, but bluff to make you hesitate until they really have answers. This is especially effective considering that this deck is designed to throw out threats consistently and repeatedly instead of trying to protect one single threat/kill attempt. When your opponents are usually playing aggressive as well or have decks that should push for speed - them holding back could be an indication for having a suboptimal start compared to yours.

You're definitely good with casting Najeela as early as possible against opponents who seem to have answers and just start beating them while doing your stuff. Focus on the player with the least chance of blocking first and then (if that's not the same player) on the player who seems to have the least chance of removing Najeela or who you think needs the life most. I would always try to make it clear that I am not in a position to control other people and prevent them from winning because it's partly true and partly we want the opponents to spend their answers on each other so they are less likely to have the correct answer for your specific way to win at the right time. The different enablers for the same combo make it rather hard for opponents to guess what your options are and you have to exploit that.

Silence is definitely a good choice and it can be both defensive and offensive. You might play it instead of REB for example, which I use because basically all our local commanders have blue included as dominant colourand therefore it serves as a counter-counter and removal for all relevant creatures as well.

What do you think of adding prime spreader vannifar and renegade rallier as a alternative pod line? Sac 1 cmc: scryb Sac scryb: renegade rallier - gets back scryb Sac scryb: get derevi Sac derevi: get felidar - blink derevi Sac felidar: Kiki - with derevi for infinite hasted creatures

JEENYU5 you can't blink Derevi after you sac it and Kiki/Derevi isn't a combo either. I have thought about Vannifar as a 2nd pod, but there's no good pod line available. At cmc 4 you would need another piece because Felidar Guardian should blink the pod and that's not possible with a creature...on the other hand, an untapping creature at cmc 4 (which is available) would not work as well in the Hulk lines. More redundancy for the already existing options isn't needed at this point because the deck is already very hard to disrupt in terms of not being able to play around missing pieces and blocked mechanics.

My apologies I made some mistakes in my first post. You sac the renegade rallier to bring out felidar. That way derevi can be blinked. And I forgot about the legend rule so here is an alternative way to end the combo

instead of getting the kiki off the felidar sac you can get karmic guide bringing back felidar. You can then sac felidar for Kiki and copy karmic getting back felidar. You then can win with infinite hasted cats.

This only requires one extra card which has used outside the combo line being able to return a fetchland, and dorks that died

Well, that works if you go from rallier to felidar. But it's +3 cards: vannifar, scryb ranger, renegade rallier.

You have to cut stuff for yet another - and that's the slowest of all - enabler to get the kiki-jiki combo out. If you want to implement vannifar in the hulk lines you would have to add Torch Courier as well (you then give her haste, fetch from a random cmc 1 to scryb ranger and continue with the pod line).

I could see that as a valid option for the budget build I tried (see updates) because you could put these 3 cards and torch courier into the slots that Razaketh & co takes in my budgetless version. But to be honest, razaketh is such an efficient and well protected way to win that I wouldn't trade it for a 2nd slower pod line and even more options post-hulk.

I would recommend playing a six cmc creature, because you can't fetch hulk with pod otherwise.

portalguyman Hulk is an ENABLER of the combo, just like pod and Buried Alive . You never want to use an enabler to get another enabler - the goal is to use an enabler to assemble what actually wins.

If you have a look a the description, what actually reduces people's life to 0 is either a loop with Kiki/Felidar (attack or direct lifeloss with Blood Artist ), a loop with Kiki/Karmic Guide/Seer (infinite Karmic Guide tokens with haste to attack or for lifeloss with blood artist), a loop with Karmic Guide/Felidar/Seer and Blood Artist as an outlet for lifeloss (that combination is only really a thing during hulk lines when Kiki got lost somewhere) or a loop with Leonin Relic-Warder , Animate Dead and Blood Artist . That's what you need to find and you can use different enablers to get there.

Besides, if you fetch up to 5 you already have the Kiki loop in play...why would you want to go up to 6 and 7 (and wait a turn to kill hulk again)? The dying Hulk would just fetch what is already there from the pod line up to 5. And if these pieces aren't in the library anymore, Hulk also won't be able to find them. And the pod line would be stuck before you even get to 4 or 5. Makes no sense, right? ;)

An idea for hulk lines that runs only 2 dead cards is use a consultation/tainted pact package and for the hulk you get labman and spellseaker to get 1 of those 2 cards, neither is dead because they can be used to tutor for a infinite combat step if you dont have a hulk or flash. The only annoying card you could draw would be the labman, spellseaker is never dead beacuse if nothing else you can get a tutor for a different line or a counterspell and the only cards that are useless outside of the combo are labman and flash