- 3x Essence Scatter
- 3x Ghostly Flicker
- 2x Izzet Charm
- 3x Negate
- 1x Redirect
- 2x Rewind
- 3x Street Spasm
- 2x Think Twice
- 2x Archaeomancer
- 4x Goblin Electromancer
- 2x Guttersnipe
- 2x Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
- 2x Talrand, Sky Summoner
So here's a crack at building a deck with the RTR cards spoiled as part of the Izzet vs. Golgari duel decks.
The plays here, as I see them, are to setup the majority of the spells using Goblin Electromancer. Reducing the cost of instants and sorceries really opens up a lot of options, allowing you to actually untap two lands with Rewind, rock Negate/Essence Scatter/or even Searing Spear for one each. Two electromancers also provide Ghostly Flicker for free (if you target the Island you tapped) or even can make the overcharge cost of Street Spasm easier, at two red for a one point hit.
You'll probably note that I've tagged this one as having an infinite combo. Well, 2x Goblin Electromancer, when paired with Talrand, Sky Summoner, Ghostly Flicker, and Archaeomancer equals infinite drakes. Once all the creatures are on the board, you flicker the Archaeomancer and the Island you used to cast it. The spell resolves, producing a drake and going to the graveyard. Then Archaeomancer and the Island return to play, so the ETB from the Archaeomancer can target the Ghostly Flicker to bring it back into your hand. The Island re-enters play untapped, so you simply cast the flicker again, and get another drake. Rinse, repeat.
I'm looking to keep this post-rotation ready as I could see this being 1) a lot of fun to play, 2) really cool if you pull off the combo explained above. I'll be playing FNMs, but I'm not looking to win the world cup with it, so I'm looking to keep this in a realistic price range, so 4x Bonfire of the Damned isn't an option.
Note that Jace, Memory Adept could just as easily be swapped with the new Jace depending on what he turns out to be.
Any +1s or comments are welcome.
i understand the Chandra, the Firebrand but the jace just seems like an odd slot to have in this deck. i would say run Dissipate over negate. in a control deck like this creatures are going to be harder to deal with instead of spells. card:Runechanter's Pike should be mainboard with a deck like this. love this deck build though.
September 1, 2012 8:43 p.m.
I take it Firemind is just a place holder? Because, there's gonna be a new Niv-Mizzet.
September 1, 2012 8:51 p.m.
pappasmurf91 - You're right that Jace, Memory Adept isn't a good fit here. I currently have him as a placeholder for the new Jace, as I would imagine he'll be a better fit, but I'm definitely open to changing that spot if he doesn't play out to be anything worth a crap. I can see where Dissipate is a good option given Goblin Electromancer 's cost reducing effect. But I'm torn as Negate can protect Talrand, and with the cost reduction, it's only one. I'm game to throw card:Runechanter's Pike into the mainboard, but I wasn't sure which creature would even use it as you're not really going to be attacking with most of them. I guess first strike will do wonders for blocking though.
TheOne4221 - You're spot on there sir. I would imagine the new Niv-Mizzet will have something to do with drawing cards, but I'll adjust once we learn his secrets.
Thanks for the input guys! Goblin Electromancer is going to be SICK! I'm looking forward to seeing the other RTR leaks in the coming days.
September 1, 2012 8:57 p.m.
This is actually a perfect casual deck. Simple, and a great way to put red-blue into a working deck. nice job.
September 1, 2012 9:07 p.m.
the only way will know on the Negate and Dissipate debate is by playtest just saying what my buddy found out while testing his deck. his deck was u/w control deck so different but same idea i guess... as you said can't wait to see u/r in rtr!!
September 2, 2012 1:50 a.m.
Jace, Architect of Thought is the new Jace.
2UU, 4 starting loyalty.
+1 Until your next turn, whenever a creature an opponent controls attacks, it gets -1/-0 until the end of turn.
-2 Reveal the top three cards of your library. An opponent separates those cards into two piles. Put one pile into your hand and the other on the bottom of your library in any order.
-8 For each player, search that players library for a nonland card and exile it, then that player shuffles his or her library. You may cast those cards without paying their mana costs.
September 2, 2012 1:43 p.m.
Yeah, I saw the spoiler a few minutes ago. He could definitely be a nice addition. Although I'm thinking any deck with him should have 1x Omniscience as the card you snag with his ultimate.
September 2, 2012 4:13 p.m.
September 2, 2012 6:53 p.m.
4x Steam Vents ?
Omniscience does nothing for you, unless you plan on regularly getting up to 10 lands with only 22 in the deck. And having it just for Jace's Ultimate? lol
September 3, 2012 12:13 a.m.
o i agree too, will a build with that card in it ever see standard play? hell no. but still pretty funny if it could work.
September 3, 2012 12:39 a.m.
September 3, 2012 2:28 a.m.
I'll definitely be tacking some of the RTR double lands in the deck once I get them.
For the Omniscience thing, I'm still trying to work through the options for Jace, Architect of Thought . That's only one option. There are countless others, but I'm actually liking him as he's not likely to see the same amount of play as the other, more obvious, planeswalkers. I was just thinking it would be a nice added bonus to his ultimate, as you can then drop everything for no cost without any trouble.
September 3, 2012 12:59 p.m.
September 3, 2012 1:03 p.m.
September 3, 2012 2:11 p.m.
September 4, 2012 1:31 p.m.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage would be a great fit. Her emblem plus omni-SCIENCE is legit! Add Talrand, Sky Summoner in and you basically have infinite drakes. Plus it's a very fun and intimidating combo for casual.
September 4, 2012 2:06 p.m.
Not sure about this surge of wanting to add in Planeswalkers just for their ultimate abilities, but it's really annoying.
When was the last time you pulled off a game-breaking ultimate in a Standard match with something like Tamiyo, the Moon Sage or Karn Liberated ? Exactly. Wanting to add a PW strictly for its ultimate ability is foolish because you could go through a huge FNM and never pull it off.
September 4, 2012 2:10 p.m.
I was just saying it would be fun in casual, haha. I mostly agree with you but it wouldn't be impossible to pull off her ultimate with this much control plus with Tamiyo's +1 control. Sorry if I annoyed you.
September 4, 2012 2:16 p.m.
Guttersnipe could be good at the three spot, but at least 2x Archaeomancer needs to stay put to trigger the infinite drake combo.
I'm also against adding Tamiyo on that front, as it would actually require TWO PW ultimates to pull that off - Jace 4.0's to get Omniscience on the board and then Tamiyo's for the emblem. Good thought, but I think that combo would warrant an entire deck around it. Here Jace 4.0 can help out in a lot of ways, either reducing opponent creature power (his +1), helping draw, and then for added grins in the event you do pull off the ultimate (either via Worldfire or Omniscience ).
Thanks for the input either way.
September 4, 2012 4:42 p.m.
I see where ya'll are coming from. let me know how this does when Ravnica comes out. I'm very interested in making a blue/red control deck but I figured I might as well wait 'til then. Good luck to you.
September 4, 2012 6:24 p.m.
I really enjoy this deck! I love infinite combos and this one is just too awesome.
Also, the Worldfire combo with Jace... Let me make sure I've got this right, you ulti then play your worldfire and then after the worldfire goes through, you play the card you exiled from their deck. Right? If so then that is just OP.
September 4, 2012 8:51 p.m.
If you've read the discussion Frozr2, you would understand why the 1x Worldfire is in there.
And Steam Vents make sense... I just hadn't gotten around to adding them yet.
September 6, 2012 6:56 p.m.
I'm suggesting you also take out Jace, Architect of Thought and Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius . The synergy is too situational, and you're going to lose next to every game you play come rotation if you don't.
September 6, 2012 6:59 p.m.
FROZR2 has a point. He does live in the future, so he does understand the post-rotation meta better than everybody else.
September 6, 2012 7:04 p.m.
Synergy is too situational? Howso? Jace works all on his own to get whatever. The Niv-Mizzets are just added power. The Talrand combos are still there.
If you had comments for what to actually add, or reasons behind the changes, perhaps I would be more receptive. But as it currently stands you're simply barking orders about how things will work out after rotation when we've only seen roughly 1/3 of the set.
September 6, 2012 7:07 p.m.
zandl is mad.
I'm sorry but there's no way this will work. I don't think the rest of the unspoiled set really changes how poorly this archetype would do. I know i'm coming off as dickish, but it's the same "new-set-fanboyism" we all have to put up with, for 3 months, until the next set comes around.
"Jacefire" is a 10-turn win, on a good day. If you're playing Izzet, why not Delver? Why not Snappy? Stalkerpike? Why do you have planeswalkers, and why are there 4 drops in an izzet archetype?
It almost looks as though you'd be better off playing Grixis control. That way, you get to use beauties like Dreadbore and card:Rakdos's Return. Also, there's a cycle of rares that "can't be countered" right now, leading the MTG community to believe there's a broken counter spell headed our way. If not then they could reprint Remand or Perplex .
September 6, 2012 7:36 p.m.
I'm not mad. I'm just pointing out how pretentious you sound.
FROZR2 misinterprets emotions.
September 6, 2012 7:39 p.m.
Frozr2 - I appreciate the input, but I never once thought this would be a tournament winner. To be honest, everybody net-decks and plays the same three combos, so I try to be creative, make new and original decks, and just have a good time with it. Why no Delver of Secrets Flip ? Might as well add Snapcasters then then I'm playing the EXACT same deck as EVERYONE else. That's not fun for me. I enjoy the challenge of taking cards that otherwise don't see play and make them into interesting and new ideas.
So, to that end, Jace - Worldfire would be a turn 8 kill, not 10. And it's just one option. The real play here is to work off Talrand and the drakes he's spitting out. An option that could go a lot faster in a lot of circumstances.
As for the fact you came across as an ass... well... good luck with being like that to other people. I welcome constructive criticism, but I personally don't enjoy the pejorative tone you've adopted. So to that end, if you're not going to offer something constructive, I'd advise holding your tongue.
Lastly, if you and zandl want to flame each other, do it somewhere else. I put this deck idea out there to try and get some input from folks how to try and make it a bit more competitive, and otherwise just to have fun. I don't need to put up with childishness on my discussions.
Thanks again for the input, to the limited degree that you offered anything constructive.
September 6, 2012 10:22 p.m.
- 1 for you for that first paragraph. Reason being is that I'm tired of seeing the same thing over and over again as well. You should check out some of my decks. They're stupid but original, haha!