Why doesnt ponza play Trinisphere main ? It just seems like a no-brainer to me, but I'm no expert :)

Naksu,
Some Ponza players actually prefer Trinisphere in the main, so it's a great question. Personally though, I like it much better in the side, for a bunch of little reasons ...

• Trin' is better on the play than on the draw, so it's kind of a bummer to have it in the main and then lose the die roll.
• It hurts us too (making mana dorks and Utopia Sprawls much more expensive), so we only want it in the matches where it hurts our opponent more than us.
• Trin' in the main makes the deck much more of a Control/mana denial deck. For some metas, that's perfect. But against many decks, the slots used for Trin' are probably better spent on Threats ... mana denial is great but doesn't actually win games :-)
• Trin' in the main almost guarantees Artifact hate in Game 2, where it can often surprise opponents if it's in the side.

Just my $0.02 though ... it may be perfect for other metas and playstyles!

This feels quite good and very powerful, I love how it does the things Ponza does best but is even better at not dying to removal, makes all the fair matchups a lot better for sure.

Oath of Nissa? That's the main consideration to me. Also, I feel like 4x Stone Rain is better than the second Mwonvuli.

Re: Heart of KiranI don't think it is a sideboard card, I feel like it is MB or bust with it. I don't like how it just dies to push, of course, but it could be a lot better in certain mu's than I am thinking.

I feel like the burn and hardcore aggro matchups unfortunately get a lot worse with this build, not sure what to do about that.

Hopefully I can get some time to test this myself, it looks super fun!

I've been working on an idea for this too, Ponza Party 5, and I gotta tell ya clayperce, yours looks to be a pretty consistent beat down. I absolutely love the idea of the deck and look forward to playing it. Now, I do not however, like Doubling Season.

I know it's awesome, does crazy things, AND we can cast it reasonably, but it just seems like we would often be banking on having it out already.

Absolutely love Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, plants for daaaays. Plus, she makes Birds of Paradise extra useful. I see the value of Samut, the Tested, but I like Xenagos, the Reveler better. He isn't used to ult unless you really need the stuff, he's just free mana and dudes, coupled with VoZ he's ridiculous. And I really think Garruk Wildspeaker is the best of them for this. More mana means more walkers, LD spells and threats at the same time, which means game over even faster.

Really have to admit that I am growing fond of Tireless Tracker and it looks really good here on card draw and as a beater. I haven't seen Jadelight Ranger in action yet but it looks like it would do well here and brings as much value as Courser of Kruphix does I think. I also think we should give Avenger of Zendikar a try here as a 1 or 2 of. Even more ridiculous with Doubling Season and VoZ.

As for Heart of Kiran, I think you're right clayperce. It should be in the side. It just looks like it would be awkward in the main and there's almost always something else we would rather have on T2.

I really wanna see this deck tweaked and built. Super excited to see where we can take it guys.

Have you thought about Evolving Wilds to help get that mountain out? or Aether Hub to help fire it off? May I ask why only 1 Mountain

I would go all in with Sarkhan Vol, because him + Doubling Season = insta 10 flying 4/4's aka win on the next turn. If you have enough mana to cast another one on the same turn, that gives you 10 5/5's with haste. Pretty good.

And what about a one-of Hornet Queen? :)

Thanks for the thorough answer. I've been thinking about joining the Ponza crew and you have quite a few options to study the deck from.

I thought about the downside of it, but as your t1 is ramp, t2 probably is Blood Moon or Stone Rain (Or a third opt in my head, Trin) and if we play around the idea of drawing 3 lands by t3, you shouldn't have to play ramp again unless your ramp gets removed (In which case your t2 probably plays a ramper too). It really is a meta call, but I run more in to fast decks that would get absolutely destroyed by trin together with acid-moss/stone rain. I might have to playtest these ponza builds more to have a better understanding. Cheers mate.

Bovine073,
Yeah, Oath of Nissa is worth a hard look for sure. I dismissed it early, because we don't really need the fixing and the one-drop slot is already crowded with dorks. But the fixing isn't bad (e.g., I got cut off of RR the other day by a bunch of Spreading Seas, with a Chandra in hand). And it'd a great way to dig for gas in the late game. Thanks much!

I kept the 1x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss for a bit of ramp and because of the synergy with Tireless Tracker. I may swap to a Stone Rain if we add Oaths though, since we could still play both on curve ...

I go back-and-forth on Heart of Kiran in the main. I LOVE ot having to mul' if we don't get a dork (T1 Land, T2 Heart, T3 Nissa/Tracker/Ranger (unless we Explore 2x Lands) then attack with a 4/4 in the air = a perfectly keepable hand). And not having to mul' as much against an unknown deck is REALLY nice. But anyone who sees it Game 1 is bringing in Artifact hate for sure, which nerfs Trinisphere as well. And yeah, it dies to Fatal Push but I don't worry about that much ... so does literally every Creature (and the Tokens, of course) in the deck :-)

I've been pleased with the performance against Burn, actually. I don't have nearly enough reps to know for sure, but the 'Walkers seem to present them with a big dilemma ... and every Burn spell they aim at a 'Walker is one less at our face! I hate not being able to use Kitchen Finks though (since it's a complete non-bo with Doubling Season) ...

Thanks again, and I'd LOVE to hear how it goes if you end up doing any testing!

//

austinbromine97,
I'll definitely be watching to see how your deck evolves, because a non-Doubling Season build may frankly be the right approach. But making a deck that can win either with or without Doubling Season is kind of the point of this build. :-)

I explain my thoughts on Xenagos, the Reveler and Garruk Wildspeaker in the 'RG Walkers that don't seem to fit' section. I like them both (especially Xenagos) in your build, but they're pretty meh in a Doubling Season deck.

Yeah, I've been really impressed with Jadelight Ranger. I like Courser better in a 'normal' build (due to the lifegain and the full-time synergy with Chandra), but it's been super here.

Avenger of Zendikar would be sweet, but unfortunately a seven-drop is just too much for this deck.

Thanks for the thoughts on Heart of Kiran ... and all the other comments too! I'm also looking forward to seeing where this takes us!

//

oldmanm0nk3y,
Thanks for dropping by! Evolving Wilds would be great in a budget build, but Windswept Heath and Wooded Foothills (do a better job here. Similarly, the Aether Hub is not really necessary.

I know the manabase looks kind of weird, but the Stomping Grounds generally give us plenty of Red. And we have to go heavy on the Forests because if we get a Blood Moon out it turns the Fetchlands and Stomping Grounds into Mountains.

Thanks again!

//

WizardOfTheNorthernCoast
Yeah, I'd love to find room for another Sarkhan Vol ... he's pretty solid even without Doubling Season out!

And Hornet Queen would be AMAZING, but a seven-drop is just too much for this deck.

Thanks much!

Naksu,
Yeah, Trin' is superb against Burn, Bogles, Grixis Death's Shadow, Living End, Restore Balance, and Storm. And it puts in good work against a bunch of Control decks too. So it's never "wrong" to run it in the main. Maybe just "wrong for me at the present time" :-)

You'll find that the number of flex slots in Ponza is both a blessing and a curse. You know how in a 'normal' deck you need to tweak the sideboard and maybe a couple slots for your personal meta and playstyle? Well, in Ponza you can seriously tweak 50% of the 75!

You may already be aware, but in case not: Moonbar and I moderate an active Ponza community over on Reddit; you're always welcome! You might especially want to check out some of the resources we've gathered up in our sidebar (if you're on mobile, it's under Menu ... Community info), including our Comprehensive Deckbuilding Primer. There's also an active Ponza community on Facebook.

And whatever you end up playing, draw well!

Bovine073,
FYI, I did a bunch of testing with Oath of Nissa and it's good but not great here, mostly because it doesn't immediately impact the board state. Jadelight Ranger does a similar thing, and though it's more expensive (mana-wise) and doesn't dig as deep, putting a body on the board makes a BIG difference. And it seems the color fixing isn't really needed in a two-color deck ... well, as long I remember Garruk, Primal Hunter has :-)

I don't really use reddit or facebook, but will look into the primer. Cheers.

I'm not sure how I feel about Jadelight Ranger over Courser of Kruphix. I would like to test the list out a bit more before I make any judgments though.

make it 60 cents more expensive

ok i finally got around to looking at your list, I don't know allot about ponza so take this with a grain of salt, but I think that I prefer Hornet Nest over Pia and Kiran Nalaar especially post board of Lightning Bolt ( I really wish I could think of a way to squeeze bolt in the main because I mean if you play red you play 4 am I right? But I see why you don't in this archetype).

I think the double red of Pia and Kiran Nalaar is stretching your mana base because you really want to hit it turn 3/4 to at least give you a shot against aggro pre board (I'm assuming that your aggro match up is rough but I could be wrong in that assumption). The double red of Chandra, Torch of Defiance is much more doable in my opinion because I'm assuming it hits on turn 6 which gives your mana base time to stabilize.

Moonbar,
I like Courser of Kruphix better than Jadelight Ranger in a normal Ponza build, but the Ranger is better here. Early, she's great at clearing out land pockets and digging for gas. But she's even better in the late-game, with less Lands in the deck and a better chance of Doubling Season in play.

All that said, I pulled the Rangers to make room for Heart of Kiran and more Stone Rain, both of which seem to perform even better in the deck.

Thanks much!

//

ninja988,
Or just wait for the price to change! :-)

//

MrJohny,
Hornet Nest is great in some match-ups, but it's really frustrating against flyers. And yeah, I will often run some Lightning Bolt in the main ... but even with 4x, the Nest was just too inconsistent for my tastes. Still, in a meta with fewer flyers, it could be amazing!

Except in a meta with a TON of mana disruption (e.g., Spreading Seas and Leonin Arbiter), it's surprisingly easy to get either or easrly, so both Pia and Kiran and Chandra, Torch of Defiance and easy Turn 3-4 plays (and sometimes, even as early as Turn 2). If Blood Sun starts seeing more play in Modern (e.g., to nerf the Jace, the Mind Sculptor decks) our Fetch-heavy manabase will have to chance. But until then, it's surprisingly robust.

Thanks for the thoughts!