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...Creatureless Mill.. This deck is now paper complete and has yet to see any action on FNM modern night. I know i will get beat pretty handily by top tier decks as people have continued to point out but it fares really well in testing and i KNOW it will be a lot of fun to play.
Some of the changes i have made recently are the addition of Black Sun's Zenith and Tamiyo, the Moon Sage also a card that was advised that i passed on not really seeing the value of it until i play tested with was Ensnaring Bridge (which makes this much more difficult to deal with)
Junk took a hit with the banning of DRS so i expect more splinter twin and tron type decks in my meta. I have added some Go for the Throat in my sideboard for those type of decks. i am also in the process of building a storm deck on paper to have something a bit more competitive o take to my local shop and surprise the guys that know i am a renewed NOOB!!
All in all i happy with this build. Lots of time and effort has gone into it with lots of suggestions from too many to name. I would like to just a say a quick thank you to everyone who has given me advice along the way.
Thank you i got the idea of an all mill deck while talking with denijsx90 about his wicked deck Arkham. A creatureless mill it as fast as i can idea is what i was going for. I just playtested it against an Esper control modern deck and smoked its ass 2-0 im liking it but it would be costly to make.. I think i can swing it though. Just when would i play it? lol
If you plan to actually play this deck versus Modern decks as opposed to casual decks, you should have 4 Archive Trap . Everyone plays fetchlands in Modern, so it should be activated very frequently.
If you're playing more casually, though, and nobody's searching their libraries on a frequent basis, that will backfire. So, yeah.
I agree with the land cut but as to adding cards to it i like the way this plays.. I have been play testing it against modern decks and it is just wrecking shop. maybe a sideboard would make it more capable to deal with elixirs and spirals but those cards will most likely come from sideboards of an opponents deck themselves and i like the fact it is strong enough to make someone board out to deal with it. I will cut two lands and add one of each of the recommended to see how it fares. Was thinking of adding a few Crypt Incursion 's to the sideboard as well as it seems early hands heavy in creatures with low CMC are the biggest threat to what i hope to accomplish. Have decked out in seven turns on more than one occasion during play tests. I am going to have to purchase some cards and i suppose i would have to find out where i could play this competitively from someone but i feel like out of the decks i have built here on Tappedout.com that this one has some serious potential. Again guys thanks for the advice.will17,TiredTofu,denijsx90 and JXB it is always welcomed here.
Hey man, what are the Steam Vents and Blood Crypt for? Get rid of them, you don't want to play Entering anyway, believe me. You should be playing 4x Watery Grave instead, and perhaps more dual lands in addition to that, for example Sunken Ruins . Also fetch lands of course, if you can afford them.
Also, I would play 2-3x Archive Trap . Almost every competitive modern deck plays tons of fetchlands, so they're totally worth it. And even if your opponent is mono-color, hardcasting it on turn 5 is pretty doable if you control the board, and then you can side them out for games 2-3.
Speaking of control, you could use more of it. Cyclonic Rift is great but it's not enough. Far / Away is good but only affects creatures. You need a way to fight other threats, including artifacts such as Elixir of Immortality which everyone has mentioned. How about some Psychic Strike , Mana Leak , or Remand ? And speaking of Far / Away , it's good but it's not THAT good. You could probably do better with something like Go for the Throat or Doom Blade , or even Unsummon .
If you're wondering what to take out for the above, I think Mind Grind and Mind Sculpt are a little lackluster. I mean, compare Mind Grind to Mind Funeral , you'd have to pay twice the cost for the same effect. And compare Mind Sculpt to Tome Scour or Archive Trap , I'd rather have one of the latter. So, in summary, here's what I'd do:
Hope I helped! Good luck.
i originally had the watery graves in there. I do not intend to counter. If they get the Elixir they get the Elixir and i am doomed at an early stage. I would like to add to the sideboard something that deals with flashback but know of no cards for it also there is an artifact i dont know the name of that keeps them fro playing creatures? from the graveyard if anyone knows that it would be helpful for my sideboard. I will take your advice on returning the lands to how i had them minus two to a total of 24 but for the most part ill pass on the dual lands. I will also take your advice on the creature removal cards, most likely Go for the Throat Add two to four of those in replacement on the far and away. Now on the subject of Archive Trap Early game in my hand its dead(unless a fetch land or rampant growth or some such shit is used.) Late game at such a high CMC id rather cast Jace and mill ten a turn. All in all though it is some advice worth considering. If need be i will Psychic Strike my sideboard just in case i run in to problems with that pesky artifact. Thanks for the help.
You're welcome, glad you're taking some of my advice. Your deck already looks way better than it was before.
By the way the artifact you are thinking of is Grafdigger's Cage , but I guess you already found it. It is a solid card for any sideboard, however I think a much more useful one is Relic of Progenitus . Having 4x of that in your sideboard will help you easily fight Elixir of Immortality , and prevent problems with Dredge, Tarmogoyf , or anything else that uses the graveyard. And best of all, it cantrips. Make room for the 4 of them by losing Crypt Incursion and 1x Illness in the Ranks . The reason I think Crypt Incursion is bad is because the only circumstance in which you might want to gain life is against a burn deck, but burn decks don't run many creatures so it's kind of a non-bo. And in terms of exiling stuff from the graveyard, the Relic does a far superior job.
Another sideboard card to consider is Torpor Orb , which shuts down Kiki Pod, Melira Pod, or Splinter Twin combo decks. Good luck!
lol that's like saying Wrath of God isn't good because it destroys your own creatures as well. Don't underestimate board wipes.
Furthermore, there are only 4 nonland permanents in this entire deck! Devastation Tide seems to me like a great suggestion; much better than Cyclonic Rift . It will literally always hurt your opponent more than it hurts you, and even if you do happen to have that one Jace on the battlefield, by bringing it back to your hand you can replenish his loyalty counters.
I think you should have some kind of draw cards in here (like Font of Mythos or Howling Mine ) for yourself just in case your opponent cancels your spells or you run out of cards to mill your opponent. The last thing you want to happen is to have to play with 0 cards in your hand and depend on your draw phase to win you the game or get land screwed since you have 24 lands in a 60 card library. Font of Mythos lets you draw 3 cards per turn, Howling Mine lets you draw 2 cards per turn. Both of them will.give you a big advantage of getting what you need and help you win the game a lot faster. Also i recommend Memory Erosion , Hedron Crab , and Curse of the Bloody Tome to be in your sideboard. They are great for drawn out battles or multiplayer, THD, etc...
I agree with the comment on having too many Jace's. Your early turns should be spent milling, and cards like Thought Scour do the job while refilling your hand. As far as card advantage goes, Thought Scour is like milling 2 cards for free, which is why I'd up the count to 4 and maybe bring the Jace count to 2. Drawing more cards in this deck is like drawing cards in a burn deck, the more you can get your hands on and the cheaper they are, the faster you can win!
@ GeminiSpartanX i just changed it from four to two today to 2x Visions of Beyond which works well from my play testing it since adding. usually by turn three i have close to 20 cards in their yard and why not have a one drop that allows me to draw three? now that is card advantage. I left two of the scours though because its a two mill with a cantrip.
I'm curious as to why you're using Bojuka Bog in the SB. I can understand all the other GY hate vs. Tron decks that have Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre , but you can respond with your other answers at instant speed whereas Bog can only be played on your turn. It seems to me that you might as well put in the full playset of Leyline of the Void if you're that worried about graveyard shenanigans, and free up some space in your SB for other answers (Echoing Truth , Pithing Needle , etc).
Yeah but i cannot think of one thing i would want to take out of here. Being that its sole design is to mill as fast as possible. Turn four is very doable with the right starting hands. And turn six or seven is a high percentage guarantee if i am still alive. Now dont get me wrong i see your point with those two cards. They are both good at GY and hand hate as well as a possible three more cards from the other guys library. After quakenbake's comment i promptly dumped my Illness in the Ranks to add a three of. I would main board them if i felt comfortable dropping any of the mill spells i already have in there.
You may not need to drop any mill spells for them if you fixed your mana base a little more, which would allow you to run fewer lands. Darkslick Shores or Drowned Catacomb would help. It seems to me like you want to win as fast as possible, so how often do you find yourself overloading Cyclonic Rift ? I mean, the earliest you could do it is turn 7, which is when we want to win not stall them some more. Taking down your Jace count would also help your percentage of drawing more lower-costing cards, which require less mana. I'd say you could go down to 22 mana and 3 Jace's and add the 3 Surgical Extraction . If you have the lands maybe test it out and see how it goes?
@yuval what he said..:D@GeminiSpartanX I do not have those lands but have a decent budget to spend on cards i wish to acquire. So i will play test it with the above suggestions and if it flows smoother i will make the proper purchases and refine the deck.(Also if it does well at modern night at my LCS ill let you know and give your the props for helping me out.) I also believe you are right about an over abundance of land. Hopefully with your suggestions i can level it out a bit. As far as the Cyclonic Rift goes i usually just use it to bounce at the end of their turn and in drawn out games it is a huge advantage to have that overload ability. It is currently one of my favorite cards.@MindAblaze! Def not enough removal but removal is not my intention. It is just enough to keep them off my back to mill out as quickly as possible.If I am spending mana and space in my deck not milling it defeats my whole purpose here. Those are in there as if things draw out or if they slap down an early turn fatty. Also i cant find much else in the way of mill cards i would want to put in right now. Hopefully the next block will come with something comparable to Breaking / Entering that i can add to remove those removal spells with. And if that is the case i will dump the rifts as well and use a playset of whatever that card may be. (if there is one) i mean i could always fill those slots with Mind Grind or something but its too costly. My other alternative is to make it a playset of AEtherize or Devastation Tide for a cheaper CMC at a higher effectiveness.
@lovethemagic I love mill. Back when i used to play oh so long ago it was not a feasible strategy,now its more then doable. This deck is now complete and when i return to the states i will be taking it to modern night. I am anxious to see if it will stand up. From the testing i have done here it kick ass. And thank you for the compliment
Yeah but until Painter's Servant (which came along after i quit playing) it wasnt a win con// And believe me i used it any dang way. With Ray of Erasure 's ... I used B/U with those and hand hate. Hymn to Tourach and Hypnotic Specter . Lots of spot removal with Dark Banishing and Terror . Old School.
The deck is nicely assembled! Still seems like it need some creature control besides Damnation . Actually, i would leave only 1 Damnation and try with 2 Black Sun's Zenith beigh much more efective against little creatures for 3cmc, and you get to shuffle it back in your deck!I would also have some Go for the Throat in mind!
On topic... This deck is pretty much what I expected to see when I saw the description of a creatureless mill. I know there is a mill card or two that forces the opponent to search his library, triggering the Archive Trap but I can't for the life of me remember what it is. I agree, though, that the fetches do a fine job of helping you out.
@ MyRevival I use the Ghost Quarter to destroy a land of theirs optimally on turn one or two forcing them to search and only if i have at least one trap in hand. If you have more than one in hand say three and can force it on turn one you have well over half of the library in the grave before they know what the hell happened. As for your self mill deck idea a card that would certainly need to be there is Psychic Spiral you can use the Splinterfright until its getting close then mill out your opposition with a spiral.
I'm not sure if you'd splash anything, but I've had good results with Path to Exile in a similar brew. Kind of a win win if the opp doesn't want to fetch that land being terrified of an Archive Trap --or 2, or 3, or by some luck, 4. Trapmaker's Snare can really make that game one Archive Trap play strong as well.
I really love Ghostly Prison might be less narrow than recall. I find it works great against affinity and various other lists.
Anyways, looks good!+1
@iamacasual yeah. during playtesting here it dioes fairly well against the tougher deck types. It will remain a creaturless mill as that is what i set out for it to be. I dont really care to take it any PTQs or anything like that but i will have fun against the guys at the LGS tournies as they are not douchie about winning and losing. I am going to be making some changes though. The tome scour is gone from it for a little life gain and one of the jace has been replaced to make room for two tamiyo so i can at the very least tap down until i ultimate her and glimpse them out sooner.
I agree but you have to be sure that your opposition has 20 cards in their yard before you get three. Ill give it a try to see how it flows but while testing i usually just use it to draw a card digging for that last mill spell i need like the mind funeral or a glimpse. I recently ensnaring bridge that PooPlayer offered up. Testing with that and usually being without a hand by the fourth turn or so should keep creature and aggro decks from doing a damn thing. Working well in tests so far. Ill make the change for the draw card its only one for one so it should be worth the trade off.
Visions of Beyond is the best card in any mill deck as it gives you gas on turn 3/4. If you don't have at least 20 cards in their yard by turn 4, your mill deck is bad.
Check out my list if you want ideas on how to build a mill deck that won't get stomped by tier 1 builds (not that your deck right now can't hold its own--it's just not the best list for the current tier 1 meta.)
|Date added||6 months|
|Last updated||3 weeks|
|Legal formats||Commander / EDH, Legacy, Modern, Vintage|
|Top rank||#41 on 2014-01-24|
|+3||Go for the Throat||side|
|-1||Relic of Progenitus||side|