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@arahdial: Geist of Saint Traft doesn't play well with the other Venser/Sundial combos. With Geist you have to end your turn at the end of combat, instead of the beginning of the end step (which everything else uses). So, you'd either be able to keep your Angel token or do all the other shenanigans.
February 11, 2012 2:31 p.m.
Well, you'd have the option until Venser got out there.
February 11, 2012 2:35 p.m.
wouldnt you lose the angel tokens unless you used the sundial at the end of every combat step?
February 11, 2012 10:21 p.m.
No, it's a delayed trigger. It will only trigger once. If the St Traft said- "Exile at the end of every combat", then he would. Because it only says to do it once, if you Sundial it, the trigger is exiled and will not occur for that token again.
February 11, 2012 10:40 p.m.
awesome lol i might have to work that into my deck then
February 11, 2012 11:03 p.m.
Blade Splicer+venser= spamming token 3/3 first strikers
February 12, 2012 12:11 a.m.
actually this is similar to my deck All Your Bases Belong to Us
February 12, 2012 12:53 a.m.
I've been running a variety of this on MTGO. No DKA cards of course, so no curse or reaver.
I am pleasantly surprised. I'm running three Geist of Saint Traft, two Mana Leak and two Dissipate right now. Titan bringing back the adept, snapcaster or geist is fantastic. Dissipation Field sits there and prevents any attack, forcing the opponent to build up his army until he/she is lethal. This of course gives you more time to get your gamebreaking combos online.
February 12, 2012 10:42 a.m.
with all the etb effects you cold abuse mimic vat pretty effectively and with sundial you can keep it's tokens.
February 12, 2012 4:46 p.m.
However, I believe Curse of Exhaustion breaks Snapcaster's graveyard flashback ability. I can't wait for DKA to be available on MTGO.
February 13, 2012 9:19 a.m.
Yeah, the ETB guys can complicate things a bit. I found that a prematurely released Shrine of burning rage can also be a pain in the arse. Had a person use it much earlier than I expected, did 4pts of damage to me, then dropped it again.
With ETB guys, I change up the way I handle them. I put block priority on them when they attack, and I try to avoid vapor snagging or dispersing them, unless I am baiting. If I have a dissipate in hand or a snapcaster with dissipate in the graveyard, I'll drop the removal card so I can follow up with a counter on the next turn. Otherwise, the ETB guys are the number one target for Oblivion rings.
Can't be perfect against everything, or even great for that matter. Best thing to do is sideboard as you can and make sure your battle plans are malleable. :)
February 13, 2012 10:11 a.m.
This is a great control deck, but there aren't very many good combos in here (that's why you have Sundial of the Infinite, right?). First of all, the sundial/venser combo mentioned in the description doesn't work, because Venser, the Sojourner's first effect must be used on a permanent YOU OWN, so unless you want to perma-exile your permanents, that won't work. I like the Oblivion Ring/sundial/venser combo, but what else is sundial for? I'd like to see more cards like Fiend Hunter and Mimic Vat and Geist of Saint Traft in here. The venser/etb combos are good, but not game-winning, so I would suggest putting in one of the above-mentioned cards (especially the geist) to give sundial a larger role in this deck.
February 13, 2012 4:32 p.m.
Sorry, I didn't realize you mentioned Oblivion Ring in there as well. :S Also, maybe Sudden Disappearance would be better than the geist if you want to use other combos in the same turn requiring you to end your turn on your end step. It's true that this is mainly a control deck, but I'd rather see you use sundial more than just in a 3-card combo or take it out.
February 13, 2012 4:51 p.m.
I've been mulling over adding a Sudden Disappearance, but I have not decided on it, or how. Some are real adamant about staying at 60 cards, but I have never had a problem with 61. However, going above that is even beyond my comfort levels.
Due to its high mana need and the sheer amount of damage it could cause, I would prefer to just have one in there, because if I need to use it twice, something went seriously wrong anyway. It should be a late game card that leads to a win con within a few turns.
I've been doing play tests with a better set of sleeves and have had much better results. I have new Ultra Pro sleeves on the way that are excellent for shuffling. I plan to get in on FNM again and see how the deck performs with better shuffling. Hard to blame the deck for failures when you are getting consistent clumping, particularly in excessive lands or lack of lands all together. I need to see how it does on its own merits before committing to changes.
February 14, 2012 6:34 a.m.
Ihat's one of the reasons I play without sleeves when the deck is in prototype phase, shuffles easier for me. Then when I nail down the exact mix I sleeve it. I will say though a set of ultra pro matte finish sleeves have spoiled me, SO slick.
February 14, 2012 9:34 a.m.
Don't they have to sac Shrine of Burning Rage as a cost to using it? I thought it would be in the yard before it does damage and therefore wouldn't bounce because of Dissipation Field. Or does it not matter what zone it's in when the damage is done?
February 14, 2012 11:08 a.m.
You know, I assumed so, but I just went digging around.
Sacrificing is paying a cost, so it cannot be responded to. When you pay a cost, the action is done, it completes itself before anything else may take place. Sacrificing specifically says that the card must go to the graveyard. Upon entering the graveyard, all costs are paid, and the damage is done.
Cards that are in the graveyard are not permanents. Therefore, when Shrine of Burning Rage does its damage, it is not a permanent, and therefore does not go back.
Wish I would have thought of that last week. Thanks for getting me thinking about it. :)
February 14, 2012 5:23 p.m.
You know, I actually think Mimic Vat would be a little better in here, because it lets you end the game more quickly. If you don't add either, though, I suggest you take out the sundial.
February 14, 2012 8:28 p.m.
For a long time, it's always struck me as odd that most tournament-style control players don't use bounce effects. THIS deck, however... takes the cake. Then bounces it. This is excellent.
You should add Sudden Disappearance. Here's why: Sundial of the Infinite. When the second part of Disappearance triggers, you activate Sundial, exiling that ability from the stack. All your opponent's stuff stays in exile permanently. It's the control player's kill switch. DO IT.
Seriously, this deck is awesome.
February 15, 2012 4:03 p.m.
With how much token decks plague me(if I don't get the board locked down hard and early, it is a going to end badly), I am really going to look at Sudden Disappearance after this Friday. I want to get a good set of games in to see how it is working out mechanically, before I make any changes. My sideboard deals with tokens well enough, but so much of the sideboard is more or less there because of token poopers. It would be nice to have some kind of answer to overly abundant token droppings all over the field, without having to entirely rely on the sideboard.
It would help open up the sideboard a bit for other cards that may be needed. :)
Anyway, if you think my deck is awesome, give it some love with a +1 :D
February 16, 2012 4:03 a.m.
Detailed update tacked on.
Some notable changes based on results of play.
Comments, suggestions, anything, please drop a post!
And if you haven't yet, why not hit that up arrow and give the deck a like?
Appreciate the help and support everyone! :D
February 18, 2012 8:54 a.m.
add another titan he's good enough for a 3 of and I think it'd work better in general turn 6 for you doesn't seem to promising 3 ofs are just a good number I thinkcheck out my deck similar to this deck:darkness-flows
February 18, 2012 8:59 a.m.
I'll take another Titan into consideration, might take one Sudden Disappearance out.
I'm considering further tinkering of the sideboard. I have a pair of Steel Sabatoge in there to deal with Shrines of Burning Rage (fairly common in my local Meta) and the possible Grafdigger's cage, but I don't know if I want to bother keeping Demystify in there- I have had little problems with enchantments. I can make them bounce, toss an O-ring on them, or dispel them. Sometimes they are a bit of a pain, most times I can let them sit until I can find a way to combo them out.
In place of those two, I am thinking about putting the Drogskol back in, or I could go with a pair of Sun Titans, or one each. I want something that can fit fairly heavy and offer some sort of benefit (creature retrieval or life gain). In Control vs Control or Against Heavy Planeswalkers (Uber friends :D is a good trial run, played two very similar decks Friday) I get creature whacked hard for a while, and then struggle in the late game. That is even with limiting creature usage until later or trickling- trying different strategies to see how to adjust for decks constructed in that manner.
Negate, however, makes a huge difference. It gets me to the late game. Now I need a way to finish the late game off. Haven't used negates in testing against a control deck, but I expect it should do well enough to shorten match times down.
February 20, 2012 1:30 a.m.
Deck looks great! Also, the random observation of sleeves sticking together causing poor draws, priceless. +1
February 20, 2012 6:38 p.m.
I like it! If I had venser or snap caster I would build it!
February 21, 2012 12:02 a.m.
You can't swing with Gideon and have the opponent attack him in the same turn, even with Venser. Venser exiles cards until the end step, at which time Gideon's abilities cannot be activated.
Land configurations currently run smoothly, I've had a couple of screws as well as a couple of floods, but most of the time the land comes at the rate needed. Moorland haunt requires removing creatures from the graveyard, that with the exception of two creatures in this deck, can come back with Sun Titan, I don't think it would come in handy much.
Celestial purge seems pretty limited, and I really don't see red or Black Titans in my meta much. Sun Titans are somewhat common, but that card doesn't nail down white.
I don't see how I would get a Huntsman in here without Green or Red Mana. =/
Gideon I might find a place for someday anyway, because of his ability to force creatures to attack, as well as being an attacker who can't take damage, should I have Stonehorn out and keep the other side from attacking with Venser bouncing it.
Thanks for the suggestions anyhow. :)
February 21, 2012 1:17 a.m.
Hmm, come think of it, it would also help against certain Planeswalkers, such as that Sorin/Sorin's Vengeance combo. I'll have to take the purge under more consideration. :)
February 21, 2012 1:55 a.m.
Sorry I was not clear before XD. Gideon is better in my opinion because your opponent's creatures are tapped down giving you a better opening. And you are right about venser/Gideon that's my bad. Celestial purge is just a good answer to almost any red/black threat. Gideon also swings for six or blows up a creature. Stonehorn does nither. And if u have sun Titan out you can block those pesky small creatures to keep them from swinging for lethal. It also gives you time to get the combo out.
Moorland haunt is just good. You can exile a creature to chump a big threat w/o having to bounce the Titan and deal with another trigger. It also gives you protection against wolf run ramp + inkmoth nexus.
February 21, 2012 6:11 p.m.
Switched up the sideboard, I am going to see how the celestial purge pans out. Not entirely sold on the Moorland Haunt, but I'll keep it under consideration. Gideon is one that has been in the back of my mind, and will continue to remain there for now as well.
Thank you all for the suggestions. :)
February 22, 2012 6:50 p.m.
hey, what about sideboarding a few Volition Reins so you can let them get close to the ultimate on their planeswalkers and just steal it?
February 24, 2012 11:05 a.m.
I would take out Venser. Planeswalkers generally make decks run slower. 1 less Disperse for 1 more Dissipate. It seems like a simple fix but, disperse is just like vapor snap, exception bcuz opponent doesn't lose 1 life with Disperse but 8 is too many 7 is just right. Dissipate will counter and exile (No flashback if exiled :>) so you want as much of that as you can get so swap in quantity could help. Redirect might be a nice one especially if you don't got your counter spell in your hand then you bring their spell back to them. Snapcaster Mage for the record does not grant just ANYTHING flashback! I don't know where you hear that or who told you that and why you put that in your deck description it say TARGET INSTANT OR SORCERY. Sorry that letters are big but there is no bold text. 1 less Ponder for 1 more Dissipation field. Ponder is not a necessity. 1 less Island and 1 less Plains for 2 more Grand Abolisher Thank you for looking at my deck. I have not tweaked it yet but I have added some of your suggestion to the maybe board. I have also noticed most of your cards have a cost of 4 or more. Try to tweak the mana and see where it goes since you say you keep getting mana flood. If you aren't getting any mana with your new mana adjust use Silver Myr
February 25, 2012 1:35 a.m.
Venser is the heart of this deck, therefore, he absolutely will not leave. I have only lost one match in FNM when I had a Venser hit the field and remain there for more than two turns. If planeswalkers are slowing you down, you need to adjust your deck to better work how they are adding synergy to your strategy.
It is IMPLIED that Snapcaster Mage is for sorceries and instants. The types of cards I mentioned are indeed all instants, with the exception of one sorcerery. I'm not sure how you got that misconstrued.
Mana seems about right. I get floods and screws in equal amounts, which tells me that the lands aren't off, just bad draws. If it were more one-sided, I would look into re-balancing. Silver Myr is unneeded, as it has no added use other than a slight increase in mana garnering. I'm not looking to rush the mana, the removal/stall cards are all low mana. I need to leave creature slots for those that have use upon entry to the battlefield.
Of course, that means overhauling other card amounts. Also considering Fiend Hunters, as a blocking Oblivion Ring.
February 25, 2012 9:40 a.m.
Not bad. Maybe a sideboard addition of Day of Judgment???? Just sayin....... might be fun. :)
February 25, 2012 9:31 p.m.
Love the deck idea for standard. I use the same venser combo with stonehorn in my own deck. Awesome to see the utility in standard, I'd only consider maybe a stronger beating flyer like Serra Angel or something obnoxious for the kill. +1 for originality
February 27, 2012 8:59 p.m.
Not sure if you are aware but there is also the synergy between Disperse and Oblivion Ring. Play O-ring, with the ETB trigger on the stack, play disperse returning O-ring, O-ring tries to return something and fails, then the original ETB trigger goes and permenantly exiles the object targeted.
I had a casual Venser deck for a while, unfortunately I don't think I put the list on here, I'll look though
Hope this helps :)
If you could check out and +1 my deck: Heartless Necrotic Lich
February 28, 2012 8:53 a.m.
LOVE IT! Here is my version, check it out if you will deck:bounce-back-to-life +1
February 28, 2012 11:41 a.m.
@ ottosmagic13- I've actually pulled that combo during FNM before, lol. But thanks for pointing it out. :)
@ Nephilim- Took it out, because it wasn't doing enough. :( At this time, I even took out the Sun Titans. I am finding using Fiend Hunters helps a lot, and the less cost creatures helps the speed out.
February 28, 2012 4:40 p.m.
@Twosocks42 If you must keep your Venser, the Sojourner remember the games I played with you. Of those games I had a pretty good estimate of when you'll get him and thus used Night Terrors to exile it from your hand. I even beat you all the times I played you with that deck as well. Not to mention my deck is based off the premade deck it came from and only has a few changes to it. So keep in mind if you are going to add more Venser, the Sojourner Night Terrors came with the deck. :)
February 28, 2012 10:04 p.m.
Foreknowledge of a card in my deck before playing, with the luck of getting a night terrors off before turn three, and catching me with venser in my hand, is not something that will occur in a true competitive setting. Also, no one in my meta runs that card at all.
February 28, 2012 10:50 p.m.
February 29, 2012 12:45 a.m.
Might be sideboard consideration, seen a few Surgical Extractions turn up, but never Memoricide. Have to be an important card they target, considering that I have things I like to keep in my Graveyard -___-;
February 29, 2012 1:18 a.m.
Major edits. Read Description for details, reasons, etc. Any other recommendations for fine tuning are, as always, greatly appreciated.
March 5, 2012 7:31 a.m.
so i played against a deck similar to this at my FNM with my Boom goes the goblin! deck and it was the only thing to legitamatly beat me, well done sir (although he had Geist of Saint Traft and less long term strategy)
March 5, 2012 7:58 p.m.
If you're looking for more bounce Aether Adept would run nicely in place of Fiend Hunter, depending on if you'd rather force an opponent to recast or kill your creature to get theirs back. Love abusing Venser's abilities though nice job!
March 8, 2012 5:43 p.m.
Ok seeing as you are running Venser, the Sojourner and Curse of Exhaustion I think Knowledge Pool should make an appearance. With Curse of Exhaustion and Knowledge Pool out your opponent can never cast another spell. Then you can just wait a turn to cast the spell that you wanted to OR you can bounce out the pool with venser cast your spells then let it return.
March 8, 2012 5:48 p.m.
Also with venser's emblem out you are technically casting two spells per turn so it will kick twice.
March 8, 2012 5:49 p.m.
I love how you say the deck is B/U yet it is W/U x3
March 8, 2012 5:51 p.m.
Woo, another update. I'll delve into more details later on, (I am seriously tired right now), but basically- a lot of focus on the aggro deck right now, because this is 90% of the Meta I deal with. The sideboard is to work around the other 10%.
Let me know any thoughts or comments, or hell, if you like the lineup, give it a +1 :D
March 12, 2012 6:50 a.m.
Firstly, you AREN'T running enough mana sources. Secondly, this isn't a real consistent deck because the curve is to high. When decks are winning on turn 4 and 5 you still wishing you could find the other piece of the puzzle. You look to have an expensive Fun deck that will most likely finish 4-2 or 3-2 at most FNMs. I suggest a complete overhaul hereif you want to play this curse-pool combo...tezzeret would work here mox opal, memnite, swords, tempered steel, etc. K pool shananagans...
March 12, 2012 7:25 a.m.
A complete overhaul would destroy the original intention of the deck, which was to bounce creatures around using Dissipation Field and Curse of Exhaustion. Adding the knowledge pool was a new idea thrown to me, but I liked it.
However, your point about the mana struck a note within me, and I looked into it. I decided to tweak some things and get a set of Sphere of the Suns added in, to accelerate the process. Between that, treasure mages and the current set up solely focused on creature bouncing and a couple counters, I am finding that this is running fantastically during play testing.
Four out of five goes, I get to 4 mana on turn three, allowing me to drop the curse or a field down earlier in the game, which immediately helps stabilize, before the other side gets overwhelming. I find a good one two combo is to drop dissipation field, which would give an opponent pause in attacking (put it off for a bigger pay off, or an answer to the enchanment) and then follow through with a Day of Judgment, which wipes the board clean.
Naturally, this set up is major focus on creatures, but that is what I run into 85% of the time. The sideboard switches out fluidly with creature focused cards, to focus on non creature cards. I find with sideboarding, it functions just as well in dealing with decks not creature heavy.
Sphere of the suns also gets you to the 5 and 6 mana point much sooner as well. This enables an earlier venser or knowledge pool drop. Getting the board locked down, and wiping it clean with a Day of Judgment, sails you into a solid win. :)
Hope I have a chance to take this out to FNM this week.
March 14, 2012 6:53 a.m.
well it seems like you have put a lot of time and effort into this build. this is always a bonus because you know what to do and when to do it because you deck is going to give you what you expect. i will admit that Sphere of the Suns makes this list look a whole lot better.
i'm sure you'll do great at FNM :)
March 14, 2012 3:15 p.m.
Nice; i was just going to ask you to take out sundial but you did first. :)
March 14, 2012 3:55 p.m.
Would this deck work without the snapcasters? I can't afford 4 of them and I really wanna try this deck out :[
March 15, 2012 12:08 a.m.
Would it work? I doubt nearly as well, but if you cannot find a way to get them through trades, a still not cheap but still much cheaper option is to add muscle through Mirran Crusader. I just did some test runs through different low mana guys, and Mirran Crusader was the one that made the most impact. He has no ETB abilities, but adding him in provides some much needed muscle for blocking/attacking (You can attack and then bounce with venser to have a blocker) since you can't sweep stuff as well without the Snapcasters.
If you run into a lot of the aggro going around like I do right now, 2 out of 3 decks I run into are Black or green (or hybrids of) decks. The other is spirits, and that, well, I don't know what to say. Sideboard something to deal with those? 0_o
So, maybe the crusaders? They seem to still go for about $6-$8; basically, a playset at the cost of one snapcaster. @___@;
March 15, 2012 1:49 a.m.
I'm not sure what to replace, I was thinking maybe the AEther Adepts (or maybe just 2 of them) but Manor Gargoyle might work well in this deck. I know the point of the deck and the Adepts is to bounce the other guys creatures but with the lockdown combo you have and a Day of Judgment afterwards, the indestructible Gargoyles will remain in play for a pummeling afterwards and beforehand are perfect blockers.
March 29, 2012 4:33 p.m.
second guess would be useless in this deck considering they should only be casting one spell per turn...lol i like this version much better. curse of exhaustion + knowledge pool is epic. i'm making it. know that you have inspired someone. =)
May 14, 2012 9:44 p.m.
It has been quite a while since I had activity on this one. I appreciate the feedback and am glad that I could inspire some interest. I must warn you that in the competitive lineup, I have found this will do quite well against control decks and combos, but against any aggro that has any sort of speed it will roll over too, and unfortunately, that is what the current meta seems largely comprised of.
Nonetheless, the deck was extremely fun to play, and it got a lot of talk at our hobby shop, despite the absolutely mixed results I got, ha ha. :)
May 15, 2012 7:46 a.m.
Knowledge Pool and Curse of exhaustion create a lockdown on spellcasting- the cursed player can no longer cast spells. If the attempt it, the spell goes to Knolwedge pool, and then they are unable to cast a second spell that turn.
Assuming you clear their field out of creatures, you have it. They can either scoop, or be stubborn and let you pick them off a couple points at a time.
June 17, 2012 6:57 a.m.
I really like this deck idea, great job!
Here's a couple ideas:
The new tutor "Open the Armory" can fetch auras or equipment, so it can fetch Curse of exhaustion, so if you used that you could play less curses and add other aura based control like detention sphere etc to avoid having dead curses on your hand without reducing stability.
Thing in the Ice would be thematic alternative board wipe to Day of judgement, since it bounces creatures like the rest of the deck and be easily flipped due to all your cantrips and snapcasters.
June 18, 2016 8:34 a.m.
Oh My... this looks amazing! and I think it is! can you make this legal in a format?
February 2, 2017 9:34 a.m.
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|Date added||5 years|
|Last updated||5 years|
This deck is not Modern legal.Highlight illegal cards
|Illegal cards||Dissipation Field , Vapor Snag , Seachrome Coast , Treasure Mage , Knowledge Pool , Sphere of the Suns , AEther Adept , Disperse, Buried Ruin , Day of Judgment|
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|Top rank||#2 on 2012-02-14|