Should ideally be able to Surge no later than turn seven/eight. My record so far is turn 4. I'm sure it can be beat! Suggestions on how to ramp even more efficiently are always welcome.
given that none of your creatures have haste, wouldn't you lose in the next turn since you won't get to draw a card? Maybe add Fires of Yavimaya
May 20, 2012 8:39 p.m.
jeffpaiva: Primal Surge can be stopped at any time. I usually stop when there are ~10 cards left in the library, so I don't deck myself if there are any tutor triggers. That leaves enough power on the board to take down the opponent next round. Unless opponent has Wrath of God or equivalent, of course. In which case I'll be screwed.
I don't think Fires of Yavimaya is needed. Sure, the earlier attack can be nice, but I don't think it's all that crucial in this deck. Thanks for the tip though. :)
May 20, 2012 9:04 p.m.
Just so you know, you won't always instantly win if Pandemonium hits the board with Primal Surge . The order in which the permanents enter the battlefield matters. If Pandemonium is the last card in your library and you put it out after 20 creatures, it won't trigger.
May 29, 2012 2:56 a.m.
@zandl: In fact, I have an open question on the Q&A about that very issue right now. I think the rulings on Pandemonium and Primal Surge suggest that the order of the permanents hitting the board is irrelevant. I might be wrong though.
May 29, 2012 3:06 a.m.
It's simple to answer, really, when you look at it like this:
If Pandemonium isn't on the battlefield when something else enters, how could it trigger in the first place?
May 29, 2012 3:10 a.m.
Yes, I can absolutely see that what you're saying makes sense. But when I read the ruling on Primal Surge , it seems to contradict this. "If putting any of those permanent cards onto the battlefield causes abilities to trigger, those abilities will wait to go on the stack until Primal Surge has finished resolving."
Am I just reading it wrong?
I didn't know about Warstorm Surge , though. It's like an improved Pandemonium! Thanks for enlightening me. :)
May 29, 2012 3:17 a.m.
Well the triggers go on the stack after Primal Surge has finished resolving since nothing can enter or leave the stack during a spell's resolution. But the triggers that occur while it's resolving are called "delayed triggers" because they exist, but can't be put anywhere until the stack is usable again.
Cast Primal Surge . It begins resolving. You reveal Pandemonium /Warstorm Surge and put it onto the battlefield. You reveal Ambush Viper and put it onto the battlefield. Before anything else can happen, a delayed trigger for Pandemonium is created. You choose to end Primal Surge . Pandemonium 's delayed trigger is put onto the stack.
Cast Primal Surge . It begins resolving. You reveal Ambush Viper and put it onto the battlefield. You reveal Pandemonium /Warstorm Surge and put it onto the battlefield. There are no triggers since Ambush Viper was on the battlefield even before Pandemonium was revealed from the library.
May 29, 2012 3:23 a.m.
Ah, delayed triggers. I stand corrected/informed. Thank you for that.
I guess it was too broken to be true. I'll have to find another way to break this deck. Too bad Fires of Yavimaya isn't modern legal.
May 29, 2012 5:47 a.m.
June 16, 2012 4:29 p.m.
You are ridiculously wrong...
There aren't any " Delayed Triggers " that happen once you put permanents from Primal Surge into play. Similiar to how Valakut interacted with Primeval Titan, Primal Surge allows you to stack the triggers any way to want once it has already resolved.
Please never say rulings that you don't know as if they are true.
June 27, 2012 2:29 p.m.
June 27, 2012 6:52 p.m.
Just asked the judge IRC: They confirmed what I had said.
June 28, 2012 12:44 a.m.
If putting any of those permanent cards onto the battlefield causes abilities to trigger, those abilities will wait to go on the stack until Primal Surge has finished resolving. Starting with the active player, each player puts his or her abilities on the stack in any order.
zandi was right
July 11, 2012 8:44 p.m.
July 12, 2012 3:41 a.m.
July 12, 2012 11:59 a.m.
Surge into Craterhoof Behemoth and it will rip your opponent to pieces.
July 20, 2012 5:25 p.m.
To settle the debate: zandl is correct.
Triggered abilities trigger the exact moment they happen, but are not put on the stack until priority would be received. If a creature enters the battlefield before Pandemonium , then it will not trigger Pandemonium . If a creature enters the battlefield after Pandemonium , then it triggers Pandemonium . The trigger is placed on the stack after Primal Surge finishes resolving.
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability's trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn't do anything at this point.
603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that's not a card the next time a player would receive priority.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses.
August 7, 2012 7:55 p.m.
I know I'm right. Check your sources, scrubs, before denouncing me.