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+1 on the Enchantresses! Curious about a sideboard choice though. Why run Thalia, when you have so many non-creature spells in the deck? Seems a little counter-intuitive to the deck itself.
Also, how would you handle playing against an aggressive flying-based deck? I can think of a handful of token-based decks that send a bunch of flying creatures out fast, and can take games pretty quick if you can't defend against flying and/or kill them faster. Since it's mono-white, I might suggest even having a Ratchet Bomb around that you could set off for 0 (which wipes out all your tokens, but more importantly theirs as well).
Neat deck though! I look forward to seeing what you do with it!
Looks very basic. And sometimes that's best.
I'm a big fan (and maybe the only fan haha) of Angelic Overseer when playing humans. But she's really only necessary if you find you lose steam mid-late game and the other guy has more kill/burn than you can handle. +1.
Could you look at my deck The Elf, The Mirror, And The Battlesphere and tell me what you think? Thanks!
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite , even as a one-of is very powerful. If he draws it as he needs it (which won't be until at least turn 7 with this deck) it can turn a game a complete 180 in his favor.
He also already has a set of Fiend Hunter in the mainboard. I would assume the Oblivion Ring s come in for things like Swords and Planeswalkers. He also explained the Doomed Traveler and Fiend Hunter in his description.
As for sideboarding swords? Never a good idea.
looks good, looks alot like my deck:avacyn-updated-crusaders deck ;) I'm not a big fan of Hero of Bladehold , though. Don't get me wrong, she's hoss, however, I prefer to drop Angelic Destiny T4 or Riders of Gavony and call whatever they have to block with on the field as the pro-critter. Calling 'wurm' vs Wurmcoil Engine is always awesome, too.
The problem with Angelic Destiny is that they come back to your hand when the creature in destroyed so having 4 in your deck is often overkill. Also they are an enchantment so they are useless if you have no creatures on the board. An awesome card but I find that even 3 is too many.
Riders of Gavony are awesome but often useless unless someone has a single creature type deck. I have them in the side board to blitz those deck types from round 2 onwards.
Hero of Bladehold is a love/hate card. I personally like it because for 4 mana you get a 3/4, 2 tokens every turn and battle cry. Even if you only get 1 turn with it then it can turn the game and if it lasts more than one turn it's a massive token generator.
Same deal. Everyone always tells me its crap at FNM purely because no top 8 decks use it. It's an insanely undervalued card that has won the game for me many many times. Even on a champion of the parish on turn 2 against other creature decks. He just keeps getting stronger and they can't do anything about it.
True Conviction does benefit more creatures but it doesn't really turn the tide. If I have 6 mana to spare and enough creatures to make it beneficial I've pretty much already won or I don't have any creatures for it to effect. The point of this deck isn't the same as a token deck. It has a few tokens for chumping long game if necessary and for buffing Champion of the Parish but it's mainly about getting 1 or 2 ridiculously powerful strikers by turn 3-5 and swing for lethal without being able to be stopped.
True Conviction is what I consider a "Win More" card but not a "Win" card.
Angelic Destiny cuts out 90% of burn and removal spells by adding 4/4, and gives flying. It can turn a 2/2 Mirran Crusader being chump blocked by weenies into a flying machine of death especially when mixed with a few Honor of the Pure or Silver-Inlaid Dagger .
Thats my thought process anyway.
Thalia mainboard is a disadvantage to me unless I verse certain decks. I agree she is a powerful card but if its a choice between Thalia and almost any other card in most agro situations I'd prefer the other card (Mirran, Angelic, Spirit Mantle) etc.
She is valuable but restricted in play for me since my deck has alot of none creature cards. Perfect for my side board.
I agree on oblivion rings but I had alot of people telling me to phase in fiend hunters... I don't like them and unless they shine this week they will be getting chucked back out for oblivion rings freeing up 4 more slots in my side board again.
It's a pretty solid deck overall, +1 from me.
I'd probably put some different swords into your sideboard, and as far as "Round 1 vs Red Mono Burn - 0/2." goes, Timely Reinforcements is the bane of all red decks, if you see enough red decks in your meta to justify them.
Updating this to be more apt atm. Timely Reinforcements is usually in the sideboard but atm I'm testing Fiend Hunter vs Oblivion Ring . I prefer O-rings but I keep getting told that the Fiend Hunters are better. At the end of the week I'm guessing I'll find out that I prefer O-rings still. :P
When that happens Timely Reinforcements will go back into the sideboard where the O-rings are and the O-rings will replace the scrapped Fiend Hunters.
Thanks for the feedback.
Fiend Hunter on the other hand, is a tempo card. It puts a creature on your side of the battlefield, while removing a creature from your opponent's side. It's also a lot more likely to be removed than Oblivion Ring
That is exactly what I am finding and what my thoughts were initially.
O-rings are pretty much a global removal that can deal with any permanent. Shines, swords, creatures, enchants etc. Alot of people told me to remove them as an agro deck shouldn't need them which I consider to be wrong but anyway, I am giving it a 2 week trial and so far I am finding that everyone is just blowing smoke up me... -.-
Fiend hunters can only exile creatures and all it takes it a morbid tragic slip or an incinerate and it's back often doubling it's initial battlefield bonus.
I like to find someone that is singing my tune. :D <3 At the same time just so I can say that I did try it and they were wrong I only need to include them for another 4 days of matches and then my deck will be back to how I think it works best. What are your thoughts and its intended composition?
I tried it initially. The spirit token can sometimes be the only thing that wins the game. Alot having a flying non-human means you can get a sword over the wall of blockers or that you can block something with protection from humans.
Oblivion Ring does the same thing to you as Fiend Hunter does- one or two for emergencies is justifiable but the only use it has is clearing your opponents big dumb blocker so that you can swing for the win (if you're slowing yourself down to use an O-Ring, you're probably on the back foot, and if you are on the backfoot you're probably losing). I'm not sure 2 Angelic Destiny is a particularly great way to go either, as in combination with Hero it pushes your curve to a place that can get uncomfortable with 22 mana sources, also the sideboard is very shakey.
Oblivion Ring and Fiend Hunter are two totally different cards. Fiend Hunter can be dealt with by a simple Incinerate or any removal for that matter. Once it is dealt with it also triggers any battlefield effects on the massive creature you just took out of play. That is the other problem... it can only target creatures. Exile permanent is not only for big creatures, it is also necessary to get rid of enchants an artifacts. This single playset is the only form of removal in this deck and is a great all rounder.
The only pro to having Fiend Hunter in this deck is being able to pump a champion of the parish and play it with Cavern of Souls to stop it being countered. This isn't good enough to make it rival Oblivion Ring as a replacement. I can safely say that putting 4 oblivion rings in a deck is almost never going to loose you the game. Not putting them in is going to cause alot of "If only I had an Oblivion Ring ..." moments as your opponent wipes the floor with you.
Any white deck in the current standard playlists more or less MUST play O-rings, be it weenies, tokens, humans or otherwise. Shrine of Burning Rage , Sword of War and Peace , card:Runechanter's Pike, Angelic Destiny , Honor of the Pure , Sword of Feast and Famine , Torpor Orb , ANY PLANESWALKER and OTHER Oblivion Ring s keeping your own cards out of play are completely unable to be dealt with except by a full out damage race without Oblivion Ring in the deck. Have you ever had a Koth of the Hammer used against you in turn 2? Or a ramping infect deck get a sword of war and peace on an inkmoth in turn 3-4? I'm guessing not.
24 mana is perfect for a base curve deck. This deck is under that curve. 22 works, if you don't believe me try it. Being mana flooded is a far greater risk of loosing with a deck like this than including 1 playset of all round removal cards.
awesome deck, humans are some of my favorite creatures this block, but i agree, o-ring is better then fiend hunter for control, especially because fiend hunter can only exile creature. only time fiend hunter is ever good is if trying really hard to go for an infinite combo, or if u boost him up, but boosting him takes away from the other creatures ur boosting, or giving him some protection, otherwise he quite easy to tackle. since ur playing more aggro i really cant see much else u can add :)
@Kinder5 Most of the deck rotates out soon so there is no point. When the blocks change I will make a new deck but at that stage I loose...
So making one without the sword would be pointless at this point.
@MemniteShyamalan I've tried abolishers and they are good but honestly they are a waste in the sideboard currently in my mind. They may go into the side board after rotation but Cavern of Souls , Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and card:Grafdigger's Cage give me enough against the control that I verse at FNM. I'm not downplaying the viability of the card, simply it's viability for me currently.
Unless your meta demands it, 4x Riders of Gavony seems a bit overkill.Also, give Nearheath Pilgrim a try over Timely Reinforcements . In my testing with him in White Weenie decks, he's just as good, especially when strapped to a Mirran Crusader or a growing Champion of the Parish .
Take a look at Mr. Pilgrim in one of my variants (deck:boros-guild-innistrad-mirrodin-division) and you will notice that against a variety of aggro match ups gives you such a boost at staying ahead in the race, which is often key.
I'm surprised everyone else's meta doesn't need them to be honest. The amount of human, spirit, myr, wurmcoil reanimation , vampire and zombie decks around atm is astonishing. Naming any of these shuts down the respective decks.
Never thought about Nearheath Pilgrim but I think I'll stick to my guns until the sets change over in october, it's serving me very well as it is. Nearheath Pilgrim isn't going to save me verse hardcore burn but Timely Reinforcements is.
@Dritz Thanks man. :D
@fadelightningmm Um... Yes card:Conjurer's Closet does indeed pump Champion of the Parish ... that doesn't mean it should be included in the deck. It's a very specific, very expensive card (for the curve in this deck) that will be useless 99% of the time. Make a case for it over the cards already included?
I like this deck it has good synergy but that fact its mono colored is off putting cause u loose out on some benefits of other colors. With Champion of the Parish u could use Thatcher Revolt or Increasing Devotion and he will be powerful. or green with Champion of Lambholt and all those awsome green miracle cards that boost.
Still love your deck, bud. It's just concise, and vicious. My White/Black deck can't quite hang with it. The only silver lining is that I tried to design it with the format change in mind (I only recently picked up playing again after a hiatus since the original Mirrodin block).
Addendum: Maybe it can? I did a play test where the first few turns were virtually identical between the decks (T1: Champion, T2: Champion, T3: Gather the Townsfolk, T4: Champion...). Afterwards my deck just shined at what it did best... and dropped a Terminus somewhere in there :P. I think all in all, your deck is more consistent, and poses a faster kill... but I have enough creature control in my deck to feel at least semi-safe a majority of the time.
Have you peeked at the M13 spoiler yet? Or in general, have you thought of an idea for a new deck after this one phases out?
easiest thing your opponent can do to shut this down is creature control. Orings and basically every removal that isn't black or green. ;D So I'd consider some card:Faith's Shields or maybe a 1 of. if anything it's just nice to have a pro from the only colored blocker on their field, but it's a very versatile 1 drop. Situational, but situational against what a weenie deck loses to. Just an idea.
There's enough creatures to deal with it. Faith's shield is just going to use up spots and won't make a different. You can't put in every single counter card just because wizards prints them or you end up with 2 creatures and a bladed bracer + 37 "WHAT IF HE USES THIS!?" cards. It's agro, win strategy with agro is to kill hard or go home, not to outlast or out maneuver.
I'm stuck here trying to find some suggestion or improvement to make me sound smart... I'm having difficulty. Silly idea that won't work but splash green for autumn's veil? Yea I know it's silly. This really does fit the bill of amazing white weenie. Only thing I could possibly think of is accorder paladin for a human battle cry with tokens. It also schleps fill a small creature 2 mana slot.
If the manabase can support a green splash for Gavony Township , it is a strong late game card for such an aggressive deck (if it gets to a late game). Township is an uncounterable engine to keep the deck becoming more powerful if your opponent has actually developed board presence and didn't die early on.
+1 for such a well thought out deck, and I'm sorry if you've already heard that suggestion before.
Ever thought of bumping out Sword of War and Peace and replacing it with another Silver-Inlaid Dagger and Spirit Mantle ? It seems like the sword would be cast, and then you'd have to wait another turn before it can be equipped, thus giving your opponent a turn to react. The other two can be both be dropped and enchanted/equipped for the same mana that it would take to cast the sword. Normally I'd choose a mythic equipment that performs so very well over an uncommon one, but in this case your deck is so focused on rushing in damage with Silverblade Paladin or Mirran Crusader that I can't see the sword helping with your attack-before-my-opponent-knows-what-happened plan.
...oh, how I shit my pants realizing that all my decks except mono -green and mono - black infect can't touch this deck... even my modern tokens failed a playtest.
Scary thought: I tested this vs. Reanimator in Legacy. Though close, 2/0 record for this deck. Props to you. +1
Additional comment: I am going to find a deck in standard that can consistently beat this soon. I'll comment w/ more details.
I have to see what is coming in from the ravnica block before deciding on a rotation combo. I've tried to convert it to a black/white exalted deck but it just ramps too slowly. Atm all my time is going into the designs for a green/white human tournament deck for serious competition.
The reason for Angel of Jubilation is already listed in the deck explanation. This is my FNM deck which works for the meta I play against. All sideboards and even small deck changes are available depending on the meta. TBH I'm kinda done with this deck now and will bench it soon. The current deck competition deck I'm making that is more inline with the current meta is deck:alus-synergy-v2-tournament-edition.
|Date added||1 year|
|Last updated||4 months|
|Legal formats||Commander / EDH, Extended, Legacy, Modern, Vintage|
|Illegal cards||Hero of Bladehold , Mirran Crusader , Honor of the Pure , Angelic Destiny , Accorder Paladin , Sword of War and Peace|
|Top rank||#1 on 2012-06-20|
|+3||Knight of Glory||main|
|-1||Riders of Gavony||side|
|+1||Hero of Bladehold||main|