- 3x Abbot of Keral Keep
- 2x Bedlam Reveler
- 2x Elusive Spellfist
- 1x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
- 2x Mercurial Geists
- 3x Mirrorwing Dragon
- 3x Stormchaser Mage
- 2x Burn from Within
- 3x Collective Defiance
- 2x Glint
- 2x Kozilek's Return
- 1x Learn from the Past
- 3x Negate
- 2x Turn to Frog
- 1x Devour in Flames
- 1x Elder Deep-Fiend
- 1x Eldrazi Obligator
- 1x Fevered Visions
- 1x Fiery Impulse
- 1x Geistblast
- 1x Ingenious Skaab
- 1x Jori En, Ruin Diver
- 1x Niblis of Frost
- 1x Press for Answers
- 1x Ravaging Blaze
- 1x Roast
- 1x Savage Alliance
- 1x Spreading Flames
- 1x Summary Dismissal
- 1x Talent of the Telepath
- 1x Tears of Valakut
- 1x Thing in the Ice Flip
- 1x Trail of Evidence
i don't love curious humunculus or jace. i would cut them for a few more pump spells
July 21, 2016 9:43 a.m.
I'd increase the ratio of non creature spells to trigger prowess like effects more often. Maybe add sorceries that make tokens, like Dragon Fodder as that would give multiple creatures for zada/mirrorwing. I'd remove rogues passage to have as much coloured mana sources as possible. You can run 4x slip through space, 4x expedite and a couple of Magmatic Insights to cycle lands that build up in your hand from the extra card drawing - allowing many spells to be played in a turn while retaining cards in-hand.
July 21, 2016 10:07 a.m.
Short story: Yeah, maybe! I have a TON more playtesting to do, so I'm not sure yet. But I really appreciate your thoughts!
- I started this brew by looking at the creature-to-spells ratio of some Top 8 UR Prowess decks of yore: 12-15 small Creatures / 3-8 Card advantage / 6-9 Removal / 7-10 Pump.
- But this deck has a higher top-end (due to Zada and Mirrorwing), so I really need to double-up on cards (e.g., playing Creature and Pump spells that can also get card advantage). Plus the higher top-end means the deck is going to have to lean more mid-range. That got me looking for cards to enable graveyard recursion, which led me to Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip and then Goblin Dark-Dwellers. And then to Curious Homunculus Flip to take advantage of it.
- As I type this, I've got a ratio of 11 small Creatures / 12 Card advantage (including recursion from Jace & GDD, draw from Expedite & Slip Through Space, and the Scry effect from Titan's Strength) / 5 Removal / 8 Pump (including Slip Through Space.
- I still have a ton of playtesting to do, but if anything, I suspect I'm going to want less draw and more removal.
- I agree that Curious Homunculus Flip is probably my weakest two-drop.
- I don't like Jace's price tag (ouch!), but I actually love everything else about him.
- Dragon Fodder and Magmatic Insight are really interesting ideas. Thanks much!
Again, I really appreciate your thoughts; thanks tons!
July 21, 2016 10:53 a.m.
I forgot to mention: I'm not entirely sure it's right for this deck, but I ran a very similar manabase during OGW Standard, and it worked almost perfect for me. I found the fixing to be great and the Unblockable effect from Rogue's Passage to be priceless. Thanks though!
July 21, 2016 11:19 a.m.
Elusive Spellfist is kinda off-performing here. He dies to almost every removal spell you're likely to encounter. Sure he is good when you get to chip some life, but that wont be much. I'd rather play Jhessian Thief over him. Though 18 creatures is kinda much in thiskind of an deck allready.
I think you should narrow your mainboard spells a bit and play Harness the Storm as a 3-of. Multiple copies on board are even better, since you might turn one Titan's Strength to three. So beatdown plan for main, and counters answers to side.
If you consider counterspells i think you should stick in 1cmc spells. Invasive Surgery is great, since all the sweeps in format are sorcery speed. Turn Aside is also super good because you really want to protect your creatures.
Do you think :chandra, flame of kaladesh might have room here?
July 22, 2016 3:29 a.m.
I don't know if other people have actually playtested this deck.
I have, and it's been going very nicely.
Rogue's Passage is essential and there was no danger of me being colour screwed AT ALL.
I've got loads of experienced with land in dual coloured decks and you are absolutely fine with 3 colourless producing land.
Elusive Spellfist is also important. It works overtime in your early game, where you need it. You could always chuck in that brilliant new Counter spell, Turn Aside, if you want to protect and pump it a bit more.
If it dies in the mid to late game that doesn't really matter. Every Creature can die to something.
The deck feels really strong and balanced to me.
It has earned +1 from me.
July 22, 2016 10:28 a.m.
Jhessian Thief is cool, but she needs Unblockable to work, while Elusive Spellfist has it built right in. And I'm frankly overjoyed whenever Spellfist eats removal, because that means Zada won't have to later :-)
I'm glad to hear Harness the Storm works for somebody, because I've never been able to get it to work. A three-drop that takes a ton of effort to set up, and then forces me to pay the casting cost anyways? No thanks.
Yeah, I'll probably fiddle with my counterspells throughout the season, as the meta shifts. For starters though, I like Clash of Wills on the mainboard vs. anything and Negate on the sideboard vs. Sorceries, Instants (CoCo), and Planeswalkers.
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh Flip? IDK, maybe? I know a lot of people love the card, but I'm just never that bummed when an opponent casts it against me. I think it's because even though the card has a high ceiling, the floor (when you just can't get Chandra flipped) is pretty low. Chandra, Flamecaller for the sideboard though, maybe? Nyah, a six-drop is just too much ...
July 26, 2016 5:46 p.m.
Wow, thanks for the high praise clayperce. I still haven't updated my own prowess deck for EMN as a new Delirium deck has been consuming most of my time. I will think over it though and get back with you in a day or two. First impression is that the deck seems kinda clunky atm but I think we can make it smooth and streamlined. Off the top of my head Bedlam Reveler I think will be the new all-star of this kind of deck, and I have to disagree with however and I definitely think Curious Homunculus Flip is going to be the unsung hero a lot of the time. Let me think over the cards and I'll have a better in depth look of what to recommend.
July 27, 2016 3:24 p.m.
Alright, here comes the long review on where I believe Prowess is trying to go. I will try to keep it mid-range like you wanted but Prowess typically wants to be somewhere between mid-range and aggro.
Most creatures that you want will be in the two-three drop slots with your curve toppers being at five. Creatures that you'll want will be things like Thing in the Ice Flip, Stormchaser Mage, Bedlam Reveler, and yes, Curious Homunculus Flip. If you need more low cost creatures then consider Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip, Elusive Spellfist, Thermo-Alchemist and Abbot of Keral Keep. The big fatties should be less populous so I'd never go over a two-of for them with the three best choices being Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Mirrorwing Dragon, and Docent of Perfection Flip. I get that you like Zada, Hedron Grinder and play her if you want but from a competitive standpoint she doesn't do enough, there's no recursion, and no penalty to the opponent for removing her like there is with Mirrorwing Dragon. On the upside she's 4 mana and not 5 so I could see a one-of being reasonable.
Spell wise, you want a lot of draw power and a lot of combat tricks. Cards like Expedite and Slip Through Space are obvious auto-includes. Titan's Strength, Rush of Adrenaline, and Borrowed Hostility make for phenomenal combat tricks. For removal, things like Collective Defiance, Fiery Impulse, and Galvanic Bombardment will get rid of anything else that you can't power through. Since you're running blue, consider the new Unsubstantiate, it works better for you than Negate or other counters because it can hit creatures already out. It's super versatile and just because it isn't Remand doesn't mean it's bad. Clash of Wills is actually bad in this kind of deck, you often won't have the mana to hold open for countering battles which is what that card wants to do. if you want another counter-esque spell go with Negate. Talent of the Telepath is a super good sideboard card for the mirror match, and Day's Undoing I have found to be invaluable for the long games
Lands are pretty easy to figure out, although Rogue's Passage is a really expensive ability, you may be better off going with a Hanweir Battlements for Haste on a stick. Even though it isn't technically a land, Pyromancer's Goggles can be insane in this build and is worth looking into.
The last thing I have is that super aggro/burn is this kind of deck's worst enemies. It'll lose like 4/5 matches against those ones. Fevered Visions helps keep the psuedo-Hellbent abilities of the Vampires from activating but it also gives them cards so I usually don't include it but I've seen it work for a few people.
These are the cards that I would build out of for my EMN prowess deck, but like I said at the beginning I tend to go for the faster ones so hopefully the top end isn't too weak. Ideally, you play a tapped land on turn 1. Turn two go for a creature. Turn three start playing spells, Turn 4 should be a bigger creature or some combination of turns 2 & 3, and then turn 5 you play the bomb and coast off of it. Ideally you'll want about 15-18 creatures so be VERY picky about them. 19-22 lands is about where you want to be, depending on how many curve toppers you have. That should leave you with 20-26 spells and the more you have the better it works.
Hope this helps clayperce!
July 28, 2016 9:51 p.m.
I'm going to disagree about Rogue's Passage.
Where Prowess decks struggle is in the late game, when they need to squeeze one last bit of damage through. Rogue's Passage helps with that.
Given you are playing that land and Wandering Fumarole, I wouldn't be afraid of playing 24 lands. It stops you being mana and colour screwed at the start of the game, where you will do the most damage, and gives you extra land in the late game for Rogue's Passage and Wandering Fumarole.
July 29, 2016 12:24 a.m.
July 29, 2016 7:47 a.m.
Thanks tons for all time you invested in my deck. I really appreciate all the suggestions and I'll be diving into them later this weekend. But one quick comment: Evasion is nothing compared to Unblockable, especially in a meta full of Fliers. I'm not dropping the Rogue's Passage until they rotate. :-)
July 29, 2016 8:32 a.m.
And OMG there are going to be TONNES of Fliers in this upcoming meta.
Just about everyone I know is planning to run a Spirit deck, and the decks StuBi and I both have heavily feature Fliers.
July 29, 2016 9:31 a.m.
Finally getting back to you with some comments ...
- I agree on Bedlam Reveler (added). That card had proven to be REALLY good.
- I've frankly been underwhelmed with Curious Homunculus Flip. I think it's a solid card, but only if I had a lot more two- and three-drop Instants and Sorceries. But for this deck, I found him annoying in the early game (because the extra from his front side is rarely useful) and a REALLY annoying top-deck (because he has to survive a whole turn as a 1/1 before he can transforms into anything useful). Maybe in a more burn-oriented deck?
- Thing in the Ice Flip seems great early, but I think it would be another annoying top deck. That was OK in SOI Standard because there were so few Horrors ... it would almost always wipe an opponent's board. We'll see how EMN Standard shakes out, but it's looking like there will be a lot more Horrors on the battlefield, so I'm leaving it on the maybeboard for now.
- I totally agree on Stormchaser Mage (already in). LOVE that card!
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip is awesome, and was a key part of the original list I picked up from Argeaux. I'd totally run Jace as a two-of, but I don't have any on hand and I'm just not that excited about trading for/purchasing them this close to rotation.
- I'm with you on Abbot of Keral Keep and Elusive Spellfist (both already in). I found Thermo-Alchemist to be really good in a burn shell, but I don't think it's good enough for this deck, due to the lack of Prowess.
- I'm also with you on Goblin Dark-Dwellers and Mirrorwing Dragon (both already in). I have not playtested Docent of Perfection Flip and I while I like the idea of some token generation, my five-drop slot is already very crowded and it doesn't seem nearly as good as the other two.
- Slip Through Space (already in) for sure, and I'm still tweaking the right about of Expedite for the deck (surprisingly, I seem to have enough other sources of Card Advantage). Resounding yes on Titan's Strength (already in), meh on Rush of Adrenaline (I prefer Unblockable for this deck), and blurg on Borrowed Hostility (this deck prefers Unblockable to combat tricks anyways, but if I wanted this effect I'd go with Sure Strike). I like Collective Defiance (currently on sideboard) a lot, but I like Incendiary Flow much better than Fiery Impulse or Galvanic Bombardment because they can only hit Creatures.
- Unsubstantiate would be great sideboard tech against Meld Creatures and Ormendahl, Profane Prince Flip, but in general, I REALLY dislike the card because (1) it doesn't hit Planeswalkers, and (2) it actually makes Creatures with ETB effects worse :-( Clash of Wills has proven to be really strong in testing, so I'm sticking with it for now over Void Shatter. I'm with you on Negate (already in sideboard) though. And Talent of the Telepath looks strong for sure (it was on Argeaux's original sideboard and I'm keeping it in mind if "spells matter" becomes a thing in my local meta).
- Hanweir Battlements would be fun for sure, but I have not missed Haste as I trimmed back on my Expedites, so I'm not sure I even need it. My color fixing is really strong though, so I'll probably try a one-of at some point. But if so, I'll be swapping it in for a Mountain rather than a Rogue's Passage :-)
- I'm not a fan of Pyromancer's Goggles for this deck. Partly because my five-drop slot is already very crowded, but mostly because 50% of my Instants and Sorceries are Blue.
- I seem to end up on the receiving end of Fevered Visions WAY too often in Limited, so it's on my maybeboard for sure. I really appreciate the insights on how to best use it (e.g., against Madness decks).
- Finally, with an Average CMC (as I type this) of 2.44 and a strong desire to cast my five-drops with mana left over for pump and/or counter spells, I'm really liking 24 Lands for this deck. I'll probably try 23 somewhere along the way, but I'd have to run a "pure" Prowess deck (Ave CMC of 1.7 or so) to get down to 19-22.
Thanks again TONS for all your insights and thoughts! I really appreciate the time you took to validate some of my assumptions/make me think long and hard about some of my others!
August 2, 2016 12:09 a.m.
No problem clayperce its what the site is for to make everyone a better player :) Happy to help!
August 2, 2016 7:06 a.m.
n4pesto and Argeaux,
I wanted to circle back with y'all on Turn Aside. I haven't playtested it yet, but it just doesn't seem great, as it doesn't do anything for non-targeted spells (e.g., Tragic Arrogance, Planar Outburst, good ol' Languish) nor all the creature-based removal out there that triggers on ETB rather than cast (e.g., Spell Queller and Reflector Mage). Maybe for sideboard if RDW becomes a thing? Or am I just not thinking about it right?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
August 2, 2016 4:54 p.m.
Yes, there are non-targeted spells out there.
I have yet to meet a deck which has NO spells that target.
Wouldn't it be amazing to shit down a Declaration in Stone with one Blue mana?
August 2, 2016 6:38 p.m.
Gotta agree with Argeaux. With the amount of creatures you play, you're less likely to encounter sweeps than targeted removal. Also languish and radiant flames are not too good sweeps against prowess, since you probably can just pump your guys from the danger. Well stormchaser mage at least. Murder is most likely to be on mainboard of any black included deck, and red has tons of cheap removal. I simply consider it to more likely to encounter targeted removal than sweeps. If you expect to see wide variety of sweeps you should consider Invasive Surgery since ALL (pw's not included) the sweeps are sorceries.
That's my two cents.
August 3, 2016 11:24 a.m.
Oops, that should have been SHUT down a Declaration in Stone.
Freudian slip! lol
August 3, 2016 12:03 p.m.
Yeah, I wasn't going to say anything, but thought that was pretty funny too! :-D
August 3, 2016 1:13 p.m.
Just wanted to amend this Comment:
"ALL (pw's not included) the sweeps are sorceries"
Kozilek's Return is Instant speed.
Not sure if there are others, but I knew about this one off the top of my head.
August 3, 2016 1:19 p.m.
August 3, 2016 1:38 p.m.
The only board sweep spells that aren't Sorceries or Planeswalkers in standard are Awoken Horror Flip, Deathbringer Regent, Aligned Hedron Network, Savage Alliance, Chandra's Fury and the aforementioned Kozilek's Return. Spreading Flames also may or may or not qualify depending on how you count it.
August 3, 2016 1:39 p.m.
I knew someone would look it up, while I was just sitting back here, being lazy. :0)
August 3, 2016 1:42 p.m.
Lol I definitely know that feeling Argeaux, I just happen to keep a list handy because it's really useful information to have.
August 3, 2016 1:44 p.m.
Just noticed clayperce, it's worth noting in your description that Dance of the Skywise doesn't function like that because the base creature is completely lost for a turn it is only a blue dragon. "Loses all abilities" is why that card never sees any play. It isn't important, as you aren't running it but I thought I would point it out for clarity's sake.
August 3, 2016 11:02 p.m.
There comes a time for us all, when we can correct our own missleading statements and my time has now come. By stating "all the sweeps are sorceries"... I lied. There are lots of cards that does clear the board if played right time against right deck. What i wanted to state was, the cards that threatens YOUR deck and you might be most likely to encounter are sorcery speed.
I truly am sorry for missleading anyone to believe such an foul statement that every sweep is sorcery, since that obviously is not the case. You shouldn't take any of my advice since now I'm known and confessed liar - who knows what else trickery I may have incepted in my statements.
My apologies and best regards. - n4pesto himself in 4th of august on our Lord's and saviour's year 2016
August 4, 2016 2:36 a.m.
No, it totally works that way. Like I say, Prowess triggers on cast. So if I have an Elusive Spellfist on board and cast Dance of the Skywise, Prowess will trigger and the Spellfist will get +1/+0 and Unblockable. Then, once the Dance resolves, it will become a 4/4 blue Dragon Illusion with Flying but no other abilities. At that point it's a 5/4 with Unblockable and flying. Sure, if I cast another noncreature spell after that, it's not going to get another Prowess-lite trigger. But Dance can't go back in time and take away something that's already happened.
Like I say, I think the reason it doesn't see much play is that Titan's Strength is just better. There's no reason to turn Spellfist into a 5/4 Unblockable with Flying for when I can turn it into a 5/4 Unblockable for . :-)
n4pesto and Argeaux,
Nevertheless, I'm sticking with Essence Flux over Turn Aside ... it er, SHUTS down targeted removal too, and it also gives ETB effects on a few creatures and a +1/+1 counter on one. Thanks again though for talking me thru Turn Aside; I have a newfound respect for the card.
August 4, 2016 6:50 a.m.
When you cast that spell the Spellfist turns into a 2/3 unblockable. Once the spell resolves, the 4/4 overwrites its current stats because the Spellfist doesn't exist anymore. It loses all abilities so the unblockable ability it had, is now lost. The stats don't get +4/+4 they turn to 4/4 regardless of what it was at before. If you just pumped your guy to a 17/17 and I cast that spell, its a 4/4 with Flying and nothing else.
August 4, 2016 8:09 a.m.
Still no. It doesn't turn into a 4/4. It turns into a Creature with base power and toughness 4/4. That makes all the difference in the world.
August 4, 2016 8:54 a.m.
Okay well I just looked up the rulings and we're both right. It will be a 5/4 Flyer but it loses Unblockable because that is an ability which it loses
August 4, 2016 9:03 a.m.
Still no. The "can't be blocked this turn" has already resolved and can't be taken away.
August 4, 2016 9:04 a.m.
When you cast a noncreature spell its oracle text turns to
Can't be blocked
When the spell resolves it turns to:
Abilities gained til the end of turn still are written as abilities on the card otherwise they wouldn't actually affect the card. Play MTGO or Xmage and watch how the card text changes because it gained or lost an ability.
However I'd rather not argue so lets just agree to disagre, because it doesn't even matter as you're not even running the card.
August 4, 2016 9:17 a.m.
August 4, 2016 9:21 a.m.
clayperce I'm unsure if the problem is on my end or your end but that link takes me to a blank page with nothing on it.
August 4, 2016 9:33 a.m.
August 4, 2016 9:42 a.m.
You should replace the 2x Kozilek's Return with 2x Radiant Flames in the sideboard since you don't have any Eldrazi. It would end up being like $10 cheaper that way, and it should be pretty easy to cast it with one for the exact same effect.
August 4, 2016 11:41 p.m.
Kozilek's Return is much better. It's Instant speed, and will still do damage when you (eventually) get it back from a Spell Queller. Sure, Radiant Flames is less $, but that's the only thing its got going for it.
August 5, 2016 6:11 a.m.
@clayperce I had completely forgotten how annoyingly effective Spell Queller is in bant humans. I guess not everyone wants to play counter spells, though Horribly Awry might be the best solution for it. Why can't those dirty humans leave the spirits for the spirit deck? :/
August 5, 2016 12:05 p.m.
May need a few Devour in Flames for Liliana, the Last Hope in the SB, this deck could get swamped by Zombie token playing a wide game strategy. Also 2x Turn Aside instead of the Glints due to just the one blue mana cost of the former.
August 8, 2016 5:36 a.m.
I talk about Turn Aside up in Post #29 (and before) ... it's a fine card, but I like Essence Flux much better, as it's just as good against targeted removal, but also gets rid of pesky Enchantments like Dead Weight, allows creatures to chump block and survive, gives ETB effects on a few creatures, and puts a +1/+1 counter on one. Glint is really for non-targeted removal, like Languish and Kozilek's Return.
August 8, 2016 10:52 a.m.
After playtesting with a similar UR deck I'm gonna have to strongly recommend a couple of Goldnight Castigators in the SB for those durdly Emrakul & BW Control decks. Nothing puts those guys on the clock better and they don't really get the damage happening to make her drawback deadly.
Best of luck on Gameday!
August 10, 2016 7:28 p.m.
Very similar to my buddy's Izzet Prowess deck except he added and then removed everything that cost more than 3 other than the Mercurial Geist. It started as a Turbo Thing in the Ice deck that became Prowess heavy because they can do lethal damage just as fast or faster. Now TitI is back in the deck though for the low cmc, it's balls to the wall aggro with no counter or burn except in the sideboard. I got to Meld a Brisela, his deck became useless lol. I like the speed of these decks but they can really run out of gas. If you can Mirrorwing on turn 5 then you should be able to be lethal on turn 6 if you had even one other creature and then drop a Stormchaser with Haste and a couple of spells on Mirrorwing to buff up everyone, especially if one of those spells are Uncaged Fury.
It's too bad that several cards are leaving on rotation like the Abbot and the Spellfist, but Titan's Strength at least gets a suitable replacement with Built to Smash.
Are you planning on updating this for Kaladesh or letting it rotate out? I'm surprised that decks like this don't seem to feature Niblis of Frost, his last ability with Chilling Grasp is almost better than unblockable because you can tap down 3 creatures for 3 combat phases and prevent them from being able to swing back. It's my favorite trick in my Spirits deck.
Anyway, kudos for putting Zada's pet dragon to good use. It's a really fun card :)
September 19, 2016 1:15 a.m.
Hey! Tappedout suggested this deck for me to check out and it looks pretty sweet! I'm making a similar deck if you have any thoughts, I'd love to hear them :)
I like what you did here with the unblockable ability on the land, I think I might add that.
March 1, 2017 2:18 a.m.
March 1, 2017 8:41 a.m.
Sorry it's taken this long for me to reply! Just in case it's not obvious by now, I just let it rotate out :-)
Thanks for the kudos though, this was a fun deck for sure!
What Argeaux said ... Rogue's Passage was awesome, but is no longer legal in Standard :-(
Thanks for the kudos. but I would frankly not recommend using this deck as a model for anything remotely competitive :-)
Maybe something like this deck instead? It was VERY strong last season, and (depending on your meta) might still be playable.
I'll give your deck a look. And for future ref, here's how to add a deck link:
Baral, Cheif of the Ice. You can also use the link button at the top of every Comment window ... and there are lots more tips behind the Formatting tips link at the bottom of every Comment window).
March 1, 2017 9:38 a.m.
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|Date added||9 months|
|Last updated||1 month|
|Folders||red decks, EMN, Standard, EMN, ., >> Deck Archive <<, Ideas for Decks|
|Top rank||#6 on 2016-08-07|