It seems like going all in on mana rocks would be dangerous. I'd be afraid of the Vandalblast s hiding in every Rx deck out there. Any mana source is vulnerable and I realize that and I guess if you can aggro the crap out of people and it works then all the power to you.

Yeah vandalblast still costs 5 mana. And if someone ramps to it fast enough they are using mana rocks too. The deck is VERY explosive I have a 60% chance to hit +8mana on turn 4. I understand the risks but with no one around to exploit it I am in free reign. I was playing a game online where I was hit with 6 fax removal spells in first 3 turns. That put me down. But not for too long. I still have the ability to just cast my things on time with everyone else, because they spent all their mana on dealing with my board instead of developing theirs.

In my deck I only run 2 mana rocks and as I have said I usually win any game it plays in. I also have alot more utility in my fatties. For example, Purity says you can only kill me with combat damages. It also happens to have synergy with Mana Crypt .

The beauty thing about Mayael is every deck you look at is different. Obviously a lot of the staples are going to be in most versions but the nuances really let the pilots shine through.

Just got back from playing.Highlights of the evening include a game of 2HG with me being alone as 5th turn 2 sneak attack into kozilek, turn 3, put down Avatar of Slaughter+Angel Of Serenity killing 1 team, then passing turn and blocking an attacker with moldgraf recurring AoS+AoS and swining for game.

Yeah Nate, guess we work on a different levels. I could put out the mana rocks and be two turns slower and play some utlity and wraths to compensate.

Yeah I agree MindAblaze, I love how much variety you can have in Mayael considering you basically have only like 30 slots that you can have any kind of variety.

Akroma's Memorial and Garruk, Caller of Beasts seem good in here. Also Lurking Predators as well

Nice to see you in MTdude!Akroma's Memorial is sadly a card that costs too much for what it does. All of my creatures are already able to win, I don't need them to win more through memorial. The slots would be taken from the creatures, and I'd rather pay 7mana for a fat than Paying homage to Akroma, flavor-wise I could make the nod for her. It would be cool to have her iconic presence looming here. Woes of struggling between Vorthos and Spike.

Garruk, Caller of Beasts Was decent but I felt that it lacked the raw power I wanted from it. I didn't have that green creature in my hand that often to truly abuse it and I felt like the +1 hurt me unless I had rack out. WIth more ways to manipulate top/hand I'd see him good. Sadly enough he lacks the power/impact I'm looking with the slot. Garruk, Primal Hunter Always draws me +5 cards or starts putting threats out.Lurking Predators isa good showcase of cards that I'd love to play but cant. The effect is really good and the card is reasonable costed. But I just don't have slots to durdle around. I'd either eat into tempo or redundancy when making the cut for it. And why would I want to make my deck more bad to occasionally play lottery with my top card?

Why do you have Wall of Roots in there? If i may ask :)

Wall of Roots is basically another talisman or signet. It's just another card that has immediate effect on the board. For example you can go turn 1 ancient tomb+0cmc rock into Wall of roots casting another 2cmc spell. With rampant growth or something smilar I'd be just stuck with taking 2 damage and having mana over It's another signet basically When my Mana Crypt arrives in post I will have to take out a a signet(which one, boros or selesnya??) because Wall of Roots gains me 1 mana immediatly with 2 cost whereas signet needs to have 1 to pump it.

Why not replace it with like a Coalition Relic ? More stable AND you can use it more than 5 times :p Also, someone i didn't see in here. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite . I know you cant fetch her with Meyel, but she is still an amazing piece in any creature based deck. And just for (LOLs) i want to see Warstorm Surge in here :) lots of fatties, lots of damage. And an instant kill with Blightsteel Colossus

Coalition costs 3, I need things that cost 2 because I can cast things that cost 2 surprisingly often on turn1, AND that gets me turn 2 Mayael. Elesh was never in my lists, it's a pure win more card and would server as an Infest only, and I dont have slots again for anything that is only utility, I get the same effect through various creatures. Warstorm Surge is another Lurking Predators Big Flashy enchantment that I would need to cut a fat to make room for.

The deck has very very very tight slots. It's the reason most all of these good stuffs cards are out, they are simply not synergistic enough to warrant a cut from anything that is inside right now. Or at least then you'd have to reason it out to me very plainly, card-for-card

How about Mirrari's Wake? you have been worried a lot about consistency in mana and this is a medium cost enchantment that gives a small buff to your team and doubles your mana. I personally run 39 lands in my Mayeal. I like to be able to hard cast if they have answers for mayael or the other methods of cheating out big creatures.

Another option, instead of running all the artifacts for ramp is running ramp spells. This would thin your deck and allow you to hit your fatties more consistently.

I for sure understand your arguments, however, topping a Cultivate compared to a signet late game would be much more advantageous. Moreover, it allows you to run those board changing enchantments such as True Conviction , Lurking Predators , Mirrari's Wake, Warstorm Surge .

Also you run Wall of Roots but were opposed to Elvish Piper . Personally one turn of using elvish piper always beats out a turn two mayael. Mayaels ability cant even be used until you have 6 mana so I personally dont see a point in turn twoing her unless you have a way to use her the next turn. In addition, if you get the piper out and its targeted it draws out removal from your opponents that wont be there when you start dropping mayael or other hard to deal with fatties.

Just my two cents I suppose.

Sorry, thats Mirari's Wake not some random persons deck :P

Very nice Discussion Inthe0ry, you really put some effort into that. I really understand your points and see where you come from, let me try to explain my theory of deck building a bit, maybe you can see where I come from?

Let me dig into it: If I'd run a mana doubler it would be mana reflection by far, it goes infinite with Basalt Monolith and has a lot of synergy with the deck in general, It's a game breaker on turn 3.

Running ramp spells is a whole different anima(L). With artifact mana I can spiral out of control about 2 turns faster than anyone using spell/land based ramp. I do use the best sorcery speed ramp spells, because they are as fast as mana rocks. The 2 cmc spells net me 1 mana per turn. And this is soooo crucial when the deck aims to hit 8 mana by turn 4, I've had games where I play turn 2 sylvan primordial.

The deck has a very redundant and mean function of Bloom Tender followed by next turn virtual free Mayael. I agree that It's sucky to draw signet later on. And there are occasional situations where you are the target on the board and your hand is shred. Then you are out of the game. A good way to figure out rocks/lands is cutting a land per two rocks. I'm a bit skimpy on my lands because I really only need to hit 2, that's usually enough.Thing about all of those enchantments is that they are not creatures AND they need creatures to be effective. When I have more power and mana out than anyone else I simply do not need them. Elvish Piper hits my hand, which I often don't have, I can play my hand out. Mayael is also very strong pseudo CA. It draws me a card with a good 70% chance. WIth piper I'd need to get something in my hand first. And the piper. I already spend like 2/3 of my tutors spells getting either Seedborn Or Bloom Tender. Wall of Roots is another 2 cmc spell that actually costs 1. All for the sake of emptying your hand as soon as possible.

Really, my EDH deck building philosophy starts from the point where I want to cast anything on my deck by 4, and I want to win with it. I'd love if if you'd find a hole to poke Warstorm surge in, because cutting artifact mana will falter my probabilities of hitting 8 mana on turn 4, and cutting fat will make my whole game plan of getting mayael weaker and pretty much any other slot left over is either Tutors or Game-winners.

Two cards, just off another quick look at the list, that do not seem to synergize are Urabrask the Hidden and Mind Stone . Mind stone does not accelerate your mana per say like a Sol Ring or something of that sort and could be replaced with something like Regal Force if you need some draw power. Urabrask to me seems to be in their purely for the utility yet cannot be cheated with mayael. You have plenty of search spells in the deck but with the power in the other creatures you have I doubt you would be searching urabrask.

If you are set on the mana rocks its your style and flavor you bring to the deck. It has been working, as you said, so why change it if you get the acceleration you need.

Urabrask the Hidden is there when people start targetting the anger in gy. And the deck loves haste, it picks up notch when ever you can just rip mayael off the side and start jamming. Or then plain old "cast it sideways to the table". It's redundancy, It's a shame it cant be picked with Mayael though yeah, If it had 5 power it would be absolute bonkers.Mind Stone is just another 2cmc rock that gives you 1mana, besides it replaces itself which is very good.I actually just took out Regal Force for a mana rock. I felt like it was doing a bit little being so restricting and was just a dumb 5/5 after ETB. I dont really missing TnN'ing for avenger+regal either.

Yeah I play with lots of different people and I love it when people roll their eyes when I go: "forest Crop rotation ancient tomb Signet mox diamond bloom tender."