DiamondFlavor: So I ended up following your advice about Stoneforge Mystic and added one to the deck. It seems to go pretty well. I also stuck in Mortarpod. While it's a sorcery speed combo outlet, I ilke the idea of having a backup to Blasting Station.

@enpc would you mind summarizing the conversation on Pattern of Rebirth + Boonweaver Giant (+Altar of Dementia) from when / if it was discussed here?

illumfolly: There are a few reasons behind not running the combo. There's a few different trains of thought about different aspects of the "why" so I'll try to keep it condensed, but this might go a bit long.

So basically, I try to minimise the number of "situationally" good cards. Don't get me wrong, they're both good cards, however they primarily function in combo. Outside of that, while Pattern of Rebirth is ok, Boonweaver Giant doesn't bring a huge amount to the party. And when it comes to combo cards for the deck, I have been quite ruthless in making sure I don't include a bunch of cards which don't offer support outside of combo. Out of all the current combo pieces, the one which provides the least out-of-combo usefulness is actually Reveillark, however this card provides enough utility and also works with far too many cards inside of combo.

Now the other thing to mention is regarding the sac outlets themselves. Of all the sac outlets in the deck, short of some very convoluted interactions, there are only 4 cards that I can infinite combo with. These are Blasting Station, Altar of Dementia, Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar. I deliberately don't run cards like Fanatical Devotion or Martyr's Cause as they don't provide a win condition and they don't provide setup into one either. At least the mana altars do just that, the give me mana to shift into the next combo.

So when you look at the combo in totality, this means that I need two sac recursion creatures and an outlet. Of the outlets available, 2 of them (assuming I'm not coming up against eldrazi) are win conditions in their own right, meaning that there's no need to have access to my entire deck. For the other two, that's the risk I take that I can't shift into a game winning combo from the. However I run a decent chunk of card advantage pieces (more than a lot selesnya decks), most of which can assist in making that transition.

On top of that, Most of the combos in the deck also work with my commander. Typically (not always but enough of the time) I have access to her, meaning that while Boonweaver can set up the combo by himself (a fact that I do really like about it), This isn't fully necessary.

The other thing is that while I have a decent amount of creature tutors, Boonweaver is also more expensive to play than any other creature that interacts with Saffi. And as for Pattern, I have all of one card that can tutor for it and most of the time Enlightened Tutor will be looking for the sac outlet.

Don't get me wrong, The Boonweaver combo is very cool and I really do like it. And if/when there is ever released a green/white creature that has a free sac effect, I will very strongly reconsider it for the deck. However as it stands, I don't feel like it's strong enough to include in the deck as I don't think it adds enough value outside of combo.

Cool thanks!

I would also think that Eldritch Evolution would have been an auto-include?

Yeah, it most likely will be. I've got one lined up to trade for but I haven't gotten around to sorting it out yet.

Honestly, it's just trying to figure out what to cut for it that's the hard part. Initial thoughts?

Mortarpod and one land.

From experience playing shirei, mortarpod is good but underperforms. Maybe because black has better outlets?

35 lands is a-okay -- just need filtering and fetches!

Drop two cards for Eldritch Evolution? must be a big card :P

I'm not a big fan of reducing my land count. I recently went from 37 to 36 and that stressed me out enough. While I'm sure it wouldn't be too much of an issue, I don't like the idea of swapping out lands for non lands, especially non-ramp nonlands.

Mortarpod was added alongside Stoneforge Mystic in one of the more recent updates. While it's not the strongest card, I kind of like it in that it can be tutored up with a creature tutor (via stoneforge) and provides a win condition with infinite mana, effectively providing me with a backup Blasting Station. I think I need to test it a bit more before writing it off. But yeah, black is much better suited in forms of sac outlets. What I wouldn't give for a green/white Viscera Seer.

The other card I was thinking of possibly cutting was Oblation. While I hate cutting removal, I sometimes can get frustrated by it in that it's not only expesnive but also gives so much benefit to my opponent. That being said, it also gets rid of just about anything, so I can understand the drawback of the card.

Maybe sub Oblation for Council's Judgment. That gets rid of anything.

Fun deck! I am stealing some of your white cards for use in my mono white soldier deck. Not sure WHY I haven't been running my Karmic guide in it.... other than me being an idiot. I'm running Darien, King of Kjeldor as my commander, so I think I will be including blasting station and that gift of immortality as well.

Oh yeah and the Jester's cap cuz the flavor is sooooo goood.

Go for it. And yeah, Blasting Station is solid. It triggers individually off each soldier that Darien drops so you can return each point of damage dealt to you directly back to the attacker. Or combine it with Healer of the Pride for infinite life (if you keep pinging yourself). Plus I'm assuming you're already running Cathars' Crusade.

Oh and yeah, king, jester, I like it. Good card too.

What are your thoughts on Altar of the Brood ? With the endless recursion combos it would be an alt win condition from a 1 drop.

Altar of the Brood is ok, however the issue with it is that it doesn't provide a sac outlet. This means that it needs to be paired with one of the existing loops and at that point it's just win more. And outside of combo, I want to try to avoid painting a target on my head (plus against a graveyard deck, milling them generally just helps my opponent).