Commander / EDH
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I was really confused when I saw your commander, but then I remembered what it actually was. If New Avacyn is your general, you want board wipes and indestructible creatures for days. Really. That's it. Heliod, God of the Sun is pretty good at filling the role of Indestructible dude. But seriously though, take out everything and add in a million boardwipes with creatures that can survive them. You're in the two best colors for it. And don't forget some wipes for those pesky artifacts and enchantments!
This isn't sarcasm, just to clarify. This is really what you want to do with new Avacyn as your general.
March 20, 2016 8:52 p.m.
amazingdan: With all due respect, I entirely disagree. Your idea is definitely ONE way to build a deck around her, but your comment is irrelevant here: the extent of your advice is "cut everything and rebuild".
Furthermore, there aren't even that many good cheap indestructible creatures, and I'm trying to build a voltron deck, where they're useless. Your advice would make my deck measurably worse, especially since I play in a competitive meta where my deck has to be fast. Rather than building my deck around mitigating Avacyn's flip trigger, I'd prefer to treat it as a positive trait to exploit (with lifelink and deathtouch in particular).
Given the plan and direction I have already established for the deck, do you have any suggestions that might be helpful? Thank you, sir, for your comment regardless.
March 21, 2016 3 p.m.
Sorry, that comment was for the "Advertise Your Deck" forum, but I decided not to because it wasn't ready to be criticized. I'm not very familiar with Voltron, and new Avacyn just seems like a nuke. I went through your deck list, but I kinda skimmed your description. It just seems intuitive to put Avacyn in a "blow everything up" deck. My mistake; I should have read your description before commenting.
Tl;dr: My bad g.
Note: I did upvote it as well, so I was well within the parameters of the forum.
March 21, 2016 3:24 p.m.
amazingdan: No worries, and I wasn't accusing you of skimping on your duties, haha. Have a nice day! :) Sorry for the confusion.
March 21, 2016 3:25 p.m.
No, that was my fault. I didn't take the time to turn my criticism into contructive criticism. Really wish I could help, but Voltron is one of the archetypes I just feel totally lost on. You have a nice day too!
March 21, 2016 3:28 p.m.
as a combo player, I saw you were playing R/W and immediately thought of the + combo. it is a good way to lock your opponents down if you really cant win. it also lets you win if you only have like 1 flyer and a really low life total. plus you con tutor for the enchantment with Idyllic Tutor or Enlightened Tutor.
Furnace of Rath also makes for a tasty damage buff, especially with lifelink. If you are running the aforementioned combo, it is essentially an ultimatum saying "concede now or die in 3 seconds." I also love using Manabarbs to slow down the opponents if that's your thing. If you do, I would suggest also running Personal Sanctuary and maybe Ankh of Mishra. That might just be from me loving my Mogis, God of Slaughter edh deck, though. if you decide to go with the damage doubler, Dictate of the Twin Gods and Gratuitous Violence are both pretty good. especially given that Gratuitous Violence only buffs your stuff.
If you put in any of these, it is essentially a permanent version of Quest for Pure Flame, so I would swap it with that. I personally don't like Grafted Wargear, so I would probably swap that for something else if you decide to put anything in, but if you like it, then it should stay. thats really just more a personal preference of mine because all of my "friends" run a ton of artifact removal.
I also like + , but I dont think that really fits the deck also, you have Boros Reckoner already, so Stuffy Doll might not be necessary.. I just thought it might be something to think about. it might be really good with Spirit Link or Spirit Loop, though. Mark of Asylum couold really make this combo work, too.
Fling might make a really good finisher for this deck. it can be great and take people by surprise.
that might not be very voltron though, so lets see if we can add some more aggro suggestions:
Academy Rector might be good for getting free enchantments, especially if any are high cost. as a nice bonus, it is a good block choicce, and it can be killed by flipping avacyn, which might be what you want to do with it.
Murder Investigation could be a backup for if avacyn gets killed off at some point. at the very least, it gives you a nice army to chump block with while avacyn gets over her summoning sickness.
well, thats about everything I can think of for this deck. some of it (especially the early suggestions) probably wont work out in a fast meta as they are kinda slow, but if you get into a more casual meta, they could seriously buff the deck. awesome idea, too. definitely gets a +1
also, I dont really know the EDH ban list too well, so I might have reccomended a bunch of banned cards by accident. oh well.
March 21, 2016 4:07 p.m.
First, remember that the Ability damage will NOT count toward the 21 commander damage. Commander damage only counts combat damage.
Secondly, I'm not sold on Voltron as the strategy here, but I havent had much playtesting with my idea. My strategy is more to just abuse her transformation by flickering her and changing how she does damage, which you have here as well.
Main question that has to be asked first, is this made more for 1v1, or for multi-player pods. If its for pods, Id focus more on finding ways to use her ability rather than try to Voltron, since voltron strategies will get you killed faster
March 21, 2016 5:19 p.m.
So, in a competitive how do you deal with combo? If your meta is ok with it, I'd suggest some mass land destruction like Cataclysm or just Armageddon. After suiting up Avacyn, it seems like a good way to ensure no one messes with you while you beat them all to death.
March 21, 2016 6:29 p.m.
readerrw07: Yeah, I know the 3 damage doesn't count towards commander damage (though of course I wish it did), but I'm more concerned about it hitting creatures anyway. The reason I think she might prove a good voltron commander is that she 1) has evasion and high power and 2) removes any potential blockers, but the list also strays almost into combo with ways to abuse her ability (lifelink, deathtouch, other shenanigans). The deck doesn't have to rely on voltron, however: if it works as I hope, it can also pull off a victory without the commander (by suiting up a creature, or just having enough efficient creatures to push damage through). Flickering was a major part of my first draft, but as I drifted towards focusing on Avacyn's combat abilities, I dropped most of it (since it reduces her power significantly and resets her summoning sickness). Flickering is definitely a legitimate way to play her, though! :)
With regards to whether this is for 1v1 or a pod: I already have a tuned 1v1 deck, and several decks tuned for large pods, so this is meant to fill the in-between space. The ideal pod for this deck would be two opponents, or possibly three.
Pro_Noob: Don't worry, nothing you suggested is on the banlist :) A few are a little expensive for me to acquire at the moment, however. Now, on to the card suggestions themselves...
Damage doublers are amazing in this deck, of course. I'm nervous about Furnace of Rath, because there are several decks in my meta that will use it to kill me. I like both Gratuitous Violence and Dictate of the Twin Gods, but they're both at five mana (competing with my commander). (Quest for the Pure Flame averts this, because Avacyn flipping should activate it, then I can sac it to kill someone.) HOWEVER, if I acquire an Academy Rector, they become amazing (Avacyn transforms, kills the Rector, fetches GV, swing to kill). I'll definitely take the non-Furnace ones into consideration - I hadn't thought of the interaction with AR!
I've got nothing against Manabarbs and friends, but I don't see how they play well with this deck. The deck is actually pretty mana-hungry, as it has an expensive commander and requires a lot of costs to be paid to equip things. It's hilarious while also playing one of the damage preventers, but I feel like that's too much of a reach here. I don't have that many tutors in this deck to find the two combo pieces, and the tutors I do have need to find other, more central cards.
QtheOmnipotent: Honestly, I don't have too much of a way to deal with combo or lockdown/stax. (Deflecting Palm is in there to help somewhat, though.) I'm afraid that I refuse to use MLD on principle (except occasionally Ruination), so although I acknowledge that your suggestions are strategically a very good idea, I'm going to have to take a pass :(
Thank you all very much for your comments! :) I appreciate the help.
March 21, 2016 7:41 p.m.
Well, if your meta shifts towards combo there is always Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst, or Sphere of Resistance. Unfortunately you can't run too many hate bears seeing as they'll be killed rather often it seems. You really aren't running too much artifact hate for stax, though Vandalblast is pretty great. Of course, adding these things would water down your deck which sucks, still it might be necessary, only testing will tell. How do you feel about Blood Moon? Being in two colors kinda sucks, but it's still doable if you aren't opposed to it.
March 21, 2016 9:26 p.m.
I'd definitely be willing to run Trinisphere and Blood Moon. I have a copy of the latter, but the former I'd have to buy (it does shut down Omniscience and Mizzix, though!). I'll play it as-is for a while, and if the meta becomes too combo-focussed, I'll add the two in.
March 21, 2016 9:56 p.m.
Sagi007: Honestly, I'm not too much of a fan for this deck. The tokens will all die if Avacyn flips, the large-creature wipe kills my commander, and it's always unlikely to get the emblem.
March 26, 2016 7:09 p.m.
Sun's champion is a decent option for making tokens to sac to flip Avacyn. Thats why I kinda reccomend the Flip-Blink strategy, since you can build an army, sac one to something like Skullclamp, then blink Avacyn back to her Archangel side and make your army indestructible. Just food for thought
March 27, 2016 midnight
readerrw07: I see your point, and you're correct that Elspeth is a good choice for a certain build with this commander. However, I decided to build this deck in a different way (being willing to kill my own creatures, rather than trying to prevent Avacyn from flipping in the first place), and for that strategy, I don't think that Elspeth is extremely helpful.
I understand my deck description has not entirely been clear on this point, so I'm in the process of updating it now :)
March 27, 2016 2:04 p.m.
March 27, 2016 8:16 p.m.
hannibal6: Wear / Tear is a good idea, especially since I can cast it off of Sunforger (can I cast both sides?). I'll get an Eldrazi Conscription when I can find one; I have convinced myself it's good as well. However, Frontline Medic only allows me to protect them after combat, while my commander transforms during upkeep, so I'll have to pass on that one :(
March 27, 2016 8:48 p.m.
I have a question about your Sunforger. Is it Mained just for the +4/+0 buff or do you actually get to consistently utilize its ability to freely cast any or Instant in your deck with CMC 4 or less?
March 28, 2016 8:47 p.m.
Pokemaster325: The +4/+0 is really nice, but it definitely gets used when I have nothing better to do with my mana. It can actually hit every instant in my deck, but Overblaze and Boros Charm are especially common (the former to double the transformation damage, and the latter to protect my stuff against a board wipe). Opponents will often cast a Day of Judgment and forget I can use Sunforger to tutor for an answer :D
Any other questions? I love to talk about my deck construction lol.
March 28, 2016 8:53 p.m.
Great! I see some folks use Sunforger for just the buff (which is totally fine, +4/+0 is crazy good) and it confuses me at times. Since you actually use the Sunforger might I suggest Brave the Elements for endgaming and maybe Tempest of Light for play against heavy enchantment decks?
March 28, 2016 9:09 p.m.
Pokemaster325: Good suggestions! I slightly prefer Bathe in Light over Brave the Elements, though, because often Avacyn is red instead of white. For now, my meta doesn't have too many enchantments, but I'll keep Tempest of Light in mind. Do you have any ideas for good instants to deal with artifacts, though?
March 28, 2016 9:18 p.m.
Instants in / for Artifact hate is rare, but in my Aurelia, the Warleader EDH I use Isochron Scepter + Smash to Smithereens to get rid of Artifacts. Vandalblast is a thing but the Overload is above 4 CMC hence my not suggesting it yet and Smash to Smithereens gives the extra "Bolt" damage so its my go to card
March 28, 2016 9:31 p.m.
March 28, 2016 9:40 p.m.
The card reads
Mana cost: R
Card text: Destroy target artifact you don't control.
Overload 4R (You may cast this spell for its overload cost. If you do, change its text by replacing all instances of "target" with "each.")
I assumed its possible as the reminder for Overload says "you may cast" instead of "as an additional cost to cast" but I may be wrong :)
March 28, 2016 9:51 p.m.
I should probably go ask a judge...I'll do that tomorrow, when I test this deck for the first time.