Description

My trice list, for my paper list check Competitive tier 1 Aetherflux Reservoir combo

Jeleva storm with most of the fat cut for more explosive and consistent early games and for better Ad Nauseams.

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Updates

Cuts: Izzet Signet, Rakdos Signet , Dack Fayden , Island

Includes: Counterspell, Lim-Dl's Vault, Serum Visions, Sunken Ruins

Remember the "grixis miracles" joke of only drawing interaction? It's actually "grixis no-gas" and Instead of shaving interaction in favor of action spells now I'm testing shaving two of the worst 2cmc rocks. The rocks (especially the signets) rarely make an opener keepable by themselves because turn 2 rock is just too slow. Dack got cut too, it's still a good card with great combo potential but I felt like the grind value isn't as needed as the early game value and tutoring power SV and LDV offer. Additionally Dack still dies to a stiff breeze since we don't have many creatures to use as blockers against all the dorks and dongers.

All includes are pretty self-explanatory, shave a couple of ramp slots for both interaction and gas, Visions is here to make 1 landers more keepable. If you're one of those heroes that thinks that Visions is hot garbage be my guest and play Opt or Portent or Peek or Omen or whatever the cool kids are playing instead I don't really care, a 1 mana cantrip is a 1 mana cantrip. Island for Ruins because black costs are hard yo.

Comments View Archive

Zarathustra616 says... #1

I own every card on this list except Timetwister. What would you suggest replacing it with?

February 13, 2017 1:18 p.m.

reversemermaid says... #2

Time Spiral. The recursion is relevant sometimes.

February 13, 2017 3:21 p.m.

HeavenlyAxe says... #3

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why not run Krark-Clan Ironworks. Cast all your rocks....sac them all, Yawgmoth's Will, recast...up storm count and most of them cost nothing or pay for themselves. Net mana, net storm count.

March 20, 2017 8:04 p.m.

Is there a reason Snapcaster Mage is excluded? Were you finding it just not doing enough for the storm game plan to warrant an inclusion?

March 25, 2017 12:28 a.m.

reversemermaid says... #5

Krark-Clan Ironworks sounds stupid enough to actually work. The deck doesn't really have that many 0 or 1cmc artifacts so it doesn't really turn things into rituals even though it does one-shot a lot of mana if I get it down. The cost of 4 mana, only working with Yawgmoth's Will and being quite dead otherwise makes me thing it's not that good.

Snapcaster Mage is a card I just find lacking. Paying 2 extra for a tutor or a wheel mid storm turn is terrible and for the grindy games I think just running an additional counterspell or gas card is better. I think there are better cards the deck cound run.

March 25, 2017 2:31 p.m.

Recently became interested in trying this deck out, curious as to the exclusion of cards I would have previously considered 'staples' to this archetype, such as Intuition / Past in Flames. Also wondering about the inclusion of Aetherflux Reservoir but not Paradoxical Outcome? Are these 3+ CMC cards just too clunky in the competitive meta?

March 27, 2017 10:43 a.m.

reversemermaid says... #7

Intuition is kinda bad without Past in Flames, it fuels YawgWin lines well enough but those would require you to actually have the YawgWin in hand. Outside them I've never been that impressed with Intuition, a 3 mana instant tutor that can't be used to get the best cards like Nauseam or Doomsday or Notion Thief isn't super exiting. I've even thought about cutting Grim Tutor just because 3 mana for a tutor is just so much mana.

Past in Flames is just a bad Yawgmoth's Will, drawing either usually doesn't feel good but not being able to do LED shenanignas with Past in Flames plus the costing 4 made me cut Past in Flames. I haven't missed it, if I want to tutor the effect YawgWin is just strictly better.

March 27, 2017 2:32 p.m.

Thanks for responding so fast! How useful have you found Jace, Vryn's Prodigy? Also still curious about Paradoxical Outcome, when I was goldfishing it seemed to usually be a sort of combination turnabout / wheel, providing additional storm count, mana (through net positive rocks / re-using candelabra) and card draw. Have you considered it at all or again is 4 CMC just too much?

March 28, 2017 10:36 a.m.

reversemermaid says... #9

JVP has been underperforming to be honest, not being able to loot the same turn + digging only one card deep is not that strong, and the flashback too is rarely exiting, just okay. I've cut it from my most recent list but this one's unchanged since I'm playing in the /r/competitiveedh tournament and I'm not allowed to change it because of that. Baral, Chief of Compliance is the new spiciest tech I'm testing.

Paradoxical Outcome is just too fat, it's almost like a strictly worse Hurkyl's Recall. It doesn't do double duty as artifact removal, hits for 4 from nauseam and drawing cards while good is either not going to be that relevant on the combo turn and on a non-combo turn the deck rarely has enough rocks you want to bounce for it to be good. I'd play Retract before Paradoxical Outcome but I don't think the deck wants two of the effect, you do moderately often tutor for Hurkyl's for Desire lines and stuff but those happen when you've notionwheeled or naused and it's possile to tutor for Hurkyl's.

March 28, 2017 5:08 p.m.

Hey dude, love the list, it's giving me a nice launching point into grixis with leovold doomsday being my main deck. One question for you, i noticed that you opted for a lot more of the fast mana rocks whereas Moxnix's version goes higher up on the curve with gilded lotus and mind over matter. Do you feel that the lotus into mind over matter line is just too clunky with Isochron? Also, being that I play solely paper magic, and Candelabra and Timetwister are just out of the budget at the moment, what would your recommendation be for a substitute for those 2? I know how important Candelabra is for high tide but is there a way to play high tide effectively without the candle? Thanks dude!

April 19, 2017 11:43 a.m.

cEDH decks have become so much faster and more consistent that going as high on the curve as Moxnix with Gilded Lotus and MOM is just wrong, you never want to see those cards in your hand when going against Selvala or FCT or something. MOM as a line was just pretty win-more, if you're able to hit 6 mana on your Nauseam turn there's most likely some other line available that leads to winning the game. Lotus is just bad.

Candelabra isn't in fact that important, it's nice to have since there's actually a lot of little synergies it offers. It fixes mana, makes mana with Ancient Tomb, is funny against Winter Orb and of course the High Tide synergy. Overall it's not that needed though and can be replaced with an additional rock or an interaction spell or a gas card or something. Timetwister is hard since the card is just super good and the recursion is actually pretty relevant. You still do want the effect so I'd just slot Time Spiral back as a replacement.

April 20, 2017 9:43 a.m.

Would you ever seriously consider bubbling muck as a "second high tide" in the Candelabra slot? It combos decently well with urborg, though I really like having another gas card as that's the big issue I find myself having.

April 20, 2017 11:55 a.m.

No, the deck doesn't get enough swamps into play consistently that it'd be better than Rite of Flame most of the time. I'd play even Rain of Filth before Muck. Plus I'm not even on urborg, and if I were spending a tutor for it to get Muck online would never feel good.

April 20, 2017 3:25 p.m.

One other thing, have to ever considered running paradox engine or is that just too high on the curve to act as a secondary win and likely belongs in a deck built around it? I've played paradox engine since it's printing and have gotten quite comfortable with it, though I feel paradox engine may just fit better with sultai shells. Any chance that this could be a line that could he considered over the scepter/reversal package?

April 25, 2017 1:19 a.m.

I feel like Paradox Engine would be rather win-more, if I'm able to hit 5 mana with enough cards in hand to start going off there's probably some other line. The only thing why I'd concider playing Engine is if people played more Sphere effects since Engine kind of allows me to storm around them, but as it is I don't feel like the deck wants to run a 5 mana card that's dead outside the combo turn and not totally necessary during.

April 25, 2017 1:31 a.m.

Perfect! Your list has been a fantastic starting point for Grixis for me, so thank you for taking the time to answer these questions:)

April 25, 2017 1:36 a.m.

AlwaysSleepy says... #17

How is this a deck? 27 lands is not a "competitive" deck. How many lands do you draw in a game Rev, like, what, 8?

You obviously need to go to 26.

<3

April 29, 2017 5:37 p.m.

So Rev, now Moxnix is back making YouTube videos, are you two gonna team up or be rivals?

May 3, 2017 12:14 p.m.

Is that a challenge? Should I now make my own YouTube channel? :P

May 3, 2017 6:11 p.m.

Yes :p

May 3, 2017 7:44 p.m.

Make a YouTube channel and I would watch that in a heartbeat, can't see the difference between this list and your paper list, the description says no bob in paper but neither list has bob?

May 4, 2017 3:49 a.m.

alias570 says... #22

Please make a youtube channel and i will watch every video. I have watched near all of moxnixs and would like to see how a lower to the ground storm deck pilots.

May 8, 2017 1:18 p.m.

Thoughts on praetor's grasp? I've been doing a mental exercise on using it to steal opposing win conditions if I get real unlucky with jeleva flips.

Also, I'm adding blood crypt back into my version in addition to Badlands for consistency. Nobody in my meta plays back to basics or blood moon (outside of me) so it feels perfectly reasonable to swap out the swamp for it. I've been re-testing grapeshot as a more flexible interaction card instead of pongify that can also be used as another kill condition. Ive yet to run into issues with jeleva exiling all of my own win conditions so far, but it's just something I've been trying out.

May 12, 2017 6:41 p.m.

Praetor's Grasp is strange, in my paper meta I might cut Grim Tutor for it just because there's so many Naus/Storm decks in my meta, but in cockatrice meta I would never cut Grim for it, and playing both just seems bad. Grim Tutor is already super underwhelming at 3 mana (with double black) and 3 life, so running a second copy doesn't sound ideal. It is true that it can be used to steal your opponent's wincon if Jeleva exiles both (or all three actually) of your wincons, but from hundreds of games played that has yet to happen to me. Once has Jeleva exiled both Labman and Reservoir, but I ended up winning that game with Iso/Rev into draw deck with Top into play Jeleva-remove Jeleva and mill my opponents out.

I'm not a huge fan of Blood Crypt even if no-one is playing nonbasic hate, if that's the case just run Sunken Ruins, Underground River or Urborg instead of the basic Swamp. The deck usually fetches Badlands so rarely anyway that I'd definitely rather run a more conditional U/B dual than Crypt. Grapeshot is okay, I don't really see the need to run it even when it doubles as a 3rd wincon since exiling Reservoir and Labman is super rare anyway, and also because without Remand/Unsub it pretty much needs Iso/Rev to work as a wincon. Vanilla-storming to 60 and Grapes-Yawgwin-Grapes doesn't sound like the best thing ever, plus I just like Pongify since being a blue instant is actually kinda relevant, it pitches to FoW and is tutorable with Merchant Scroll. Grapeshot is spicy tech against dorks, but because of how popular dorks have become I just went and added a second boardwipe in the form of Fire Covenant, which atm is actually Rolling Earthquake in my "experimental" Jeleva list.

May 18, 2017 4:44 p.m.

I've been trying to figure this out, but how do you remove jeleva enough times to mill your opponents out? There's probably a very obvious interaction I'm missing though..

May 18, 2017 7:58 p.m.

Step 1: Make infinite mana with Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal

Step 2: Draw your deck with Sensei's Divining Top or Mind's Desire

Step 3: Cast Jeleva, hold Priority and Mana Drain/Pact of Negation/FoW/Delay/Counterspell her and repeat so that she costs a lot of mana

Step 4: Cast Jeleva and let her resolve, all your opponents exile the top 10+ cards of their deck

Step 5: Chain of Vapor/Snap(sending to the command zone)/Pyroblast/Pongify/whatever her and keep recasting and removing her so your opponents exile the top X cards of their libraries where X is a lot. This already should be enough, but if needed we can keep going.

Step 5.5: Timetwister and do it all again, then if it STILL isn't enough (because most of your removal and counters are in exile? iunno) Yawgwin and do it all over again.

Step 6: Pass the turn and watch your opponents deck themselves.

May 19, 2017 2:48 a.m.

I completely forgot about twister! Thanks dude!

May 19, 2017 3:13 p.m.

Some things that I've been testing with mixed results recently, due to not yet owning Imperial Seal or grim tutor, are Transmute artifact and personal tutor. Lim-Dul's vault had been my substitute for Imperial Seal so far and it's performed admirably, so much so that I'm likely to keep it. I understand the feeling with the 3 cost tutors, which is why I cut fabricate from my initial build and replaced it with Transmute artifact with mixed results. Most of the time, Transmute artifact is great and allows me to assemble future-top or dramatic scepter relatively easily. I had originally cut snap for personal tutor as a test, but personal tutor so far has netted very mixed results, especially since I treat it as Doomsday #2, wheel #3 or twister #2 (I'm using spiral right now due to not owning a twister). I feel like in a deck where Doomsday is the primary game plan, personal tutor would be a fine stand in, but I'm not as impressed with it as I was with snap, which is always good.

What I have wanted to get your opinion on was Diabolic intent as another way to kill your own jeleva when you need gas, while still netting a significant advantage at the same time. It seems a little cute of an idea but it may have legs?

May 23, 2017 12:24 a.m.

Intent is never online early game and is rarely online on the combo turn. Even the payout really isn't there, resetting Jeleva is more of a desperation play you do when you have to do it, not a thing you actively want to do. If we had access to green and dorks then yeah Intent would be great, but since we don't I wouldn't play it.

May 25, 2017 8:36 a.m.

alias570 says... #30

Hi reverse have you considered unsubstantiate? I feel ultimately it would prove itself more useful than the likes of snap. While it does not untap the lands it is was more versatile, from "countering" any spell even uncounterable ones although the only really relevant targets this might have is creatures of type named from cavern of souls but also just using the remand trick on your own mind's desire. Overall I think the cards versatility might out way the efficiency of snap. What do you think about the card?

May 30, 2017 2:13 p.m.

I played Unsubstantiate for a long time and in the end it was just too bad. The thing is Snap costs practically 0 mana so it pairs great with wheels and other similiar plays plus being a ritual with High Tide is actually really big. The problem with Unsubstantiate is that as a counterspell it's kinda lackluster, in counterspell wars it doesn't do anything against Swan Song and the likes and overall you either want your counters to be hard counters or not cost two mana. The creature bounce mode isn't irrelevant but again at two mana it was too slow on the combo turn and hard to justify on later turns since unless you're going off the same/following turn (if you EOT Unsub) they can just play their hatebear/efficient beater back in which case running a real removal spell like Pongify is just better. I really like cards that do double duty and fill multiple roles, but Unsubstantiate in my experience was just too bad at both jobs to keep in the deck. As for the Mind's Desire synergy, more often than not that's just win-more and if the card isn't good as a reactive card what it primarly is the cute interactions ultimately aren't worth it.

May 30, 2017 4:49 p.m.

Zedsy says... #32

Hey man, I love the list, and I've been wanting to get into grixis storm for a while now.

My only problem is that as a student I don't currently have the largest budget at the moment.

I was wondering if you had a budgeted storm list already made? Or if you could make some suggestions for the 100+ cards? Thanks!

June 7, 2017 12:55 a.m.

Budget Jeleva

There's a budget Jeleva, it's pretty far from optimal but 4000$ -> 500$. That's about as bare-bones as the deck can go, updating is easy just get cards in this list that aren't in the budget one.

June 9, 2017 9:11 a.m.

thefallan says... #34

I have or am able to get almost all of these cards except for a few of the more expensive ones I do not already own is there any way to make substitutes for the following: abu duals, candelabra, fluterstorm, force of will, grim tutor, imperial seal, mana drain, timetwister. Sorry if that is a lot of cards they are just a bit out of the price I am wanting to pay on a deck at the moment I fully understand the deck will not be quite as good without a lot of these cards, but would like to try something out that is similar to your list any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

June 11, 2017 12:30 a.m.

ABURs -> just twiddle around with different lands. Sunken Hollow is probably worth playing, Volc should be Shivan Reef if you want a second UR land, it could also just be Urborg, Sunken Ruins or just another basic Islans. Badlands just becomes Blood Crypt.

Fluster, Drain, FoW -> Anything that reads "counter target spell" and isn't 3 mana.

Twister -> Time Spiral

Candles, Grim, Seal -> Lim-Dul's Vault, and if your meta supports it throw in Praetor's Grasp to keep up tutor density, otherwise just throw in another counterspell or a rock or a cantrip or something. Candles could be Turnabout or Seething Song, but those are kinda bad so yet another rock or cantrip would be better.

June 11, 2017 4:19 a.m.

EREM says... #36

Why so many tutor? Why there is no haste card? how do you attack with jeleva? someone might handle your jeleva 1st before attack

June 12, 2017 6:28 p.m.

EREM says... #37

And also, whats the main win con of this deck? I see the other jeleva deck have many high manacost card that really powerful if you cast it without mana cost from jeleva.

June 12, 2017 7:11 p.m.

Jeleva is a the tertiary plan for the deck. The deck operates without ever casting jeleva.

You win through fish bowl laser or doomsday/lab man generally.

June 12, 2017 11:37 p.m.

EREM, this is a combo deck and it aims to win the game without ever having to cast Jeleva at all. If you have to cast Jeleva you're in a losing scenario and she's there just in case you run out of cards. If she hits a tutor or a wheel effect off of someone's topdeck that can often times stabilize the game for you. The reason there are so many tutors is because the wincons are so finely tuned that usually 1 tutor can allow you to win the game on the spot or set up 1 turn in advance.

This is a storm deck and it has 2 wincons:

1) Casting a bunch of spells in the same turn with Aetherflux Reservoir in play so that you can gain enough life to shoot your opponent(s) for 50 damage. This can easily be done with the combination of Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter and a mana rock such as Sol Ring in order to cast an infinite number of spells, which also turns Mind's Desire into a wincon of sorts.

2) Assembling a 5-card pile with Doomsday that almost always involves casting Laboratory Maniac and drawing from an empty library within the same turn. This is the most complicated wincon in all of Magic, but a typical 5-card pile for this deck will be Gitaxian Probe, Gush, Lion's Eye Diamond, Yawgmoth's Will, and Laboratory Maniac in that order. However, there are a myriad many possible Doomsday piles and it's highly dependent on the board state and your knowledge of your opponent's deck.

June 12, 2017 11:42 p.m.

All of that having been said, there is so much more nuance to this deck than I or reversemermaid could explain in a couple of paragraphs. I've been playing almost this exact list for about 3 months and I'm just now starting to get a hang of the deck. It's by far one of the hardest decks to master, but one of the most fulfilling.

I recently got an astonishing turn 4 win where I was able to cast Mind's Desire twice in the same turn, once for a storm count of 8 and again for a storm count of 27. Between exiling Time Spiral and Ad Nauseum I was able to show off to my friend and go from 9 life (with Aetherflux in play) to about 1000 life in the same turn.

June 12, 2017 11:52 p.m.

I love that you keep this so up to date as it makes it easier for me to see what I'm always striving for. I was curious as to what you thought about reality shift in comparison to pongify / rapid hydridization. My meta has devolved into a race to hulk combo recently and I feel like the extra mana for an exile might just be good enough.

June 16, 2017 5:11 p.m.

I feel like creature removal is the wrong way to approach Hulk decks, using Nihil Spellbomb or Tormod's Crypt or throwing Counterspell back in would be what I'd do if I played against Hulk more. In addition to that depending on the Hulk pile Pongify still gets the job done.

That being said Reality Shift is an okay card if you play against decks where the exile is relevant but aren't graveyard-abusing enough to make a Crypt effect worth it.

June 17, 2017 8:13 a.m.

benw says... #43

Can you put a basic description together at the beginning that explains a) what "storm" is, b) how this deck works. I've started reading an page of all the commanders listed in tiers and your Jeleva deck is listed as a tier 1 top cEDH deck. From reading, I've recently understood that combat damage is not the way to win...apparently! Again from reading, I've seen many decks with many commanders essentially all winning from Laboratory Maniac. Many decks too seem to have Ad Nauseam in them. I don't actually understand about 90% of the interactions this deck list and comments discuss. Could someone spare the time to briefly explain how this deck works, what it's trying to do and hopefully explain that cEDH isn't just a tedious race to the most consistent Laboratory Maniac win con, in the process.

June 20, 2017 5:46 p.m.

benw says... #44

EREM seems to be as baffled as me. I bought the pre constructed Jeleva deck years ago and got into commander. I love the format now. But my Jeleva deck like all my decks are built from the notion of explaining the commander's abilities ie. lots of expensive sorceries. But it's rubbish partly because my cards are cheap and partly because it's slow and almost entirely random. So I never play it, instead I play other commanders that deliver commander damage and build creature board presence. But from reading the tier list decks and particularly this one, I'm beginning to understand that you don't actually attack in cEDH, instead you just get infinite mana, or turns or something like that and just 'win'. The game is about doing that in turns 1-4 more consistently than everyone else. A game I feel you could play by yourself!

June 20, 2017 5:55 p.m.

If you'd see cEDH in action you'd see that cEDH is actually really interactive. Decks usually run more interaction than casual decks and while games usually end turn 5-ish they still contain a great amount of action and interesting plays. Just look at 60 card kitchen table casual vs. modern or legacy, just because the games are fast doesn't mean that they're boring or that no-one gets to do anything. There's also the thing that in EDH all the tutors are legal and players having 40 life makes creature beats a worse plan than slotting some combo in your deck. That being said there are a lot of decks that try to stop and slow down other decks through hatebears or just having more counterspells and card draw than others. If you dislike using combos as your wincon on a fundamental level cEDH probably isn't for you, but if you can look past that you'll see that it's actually a really fun format capable of much more than "durr race to a t2 infinite combo".

As for this deck, if you really have no idea what you're looking at I suggest checking out Moxnix's youtube channel, in his videos he mostly plays against non-competitive people in MODO and his list is pretty different from mine, but it's still good enough to see how Jeleva storm works. Moxnix's Channel: Moxnix's channel

If you just want to see cEDH gameplay Laboratory Maniacs has some great cEDH gameplay: Laboratory Maniacs' channel

June 21, 2017 5:26 a.m.

YoshiCline says... #46

Hello, I heard on Reddit that you were the man to come to with grixis storm questions.

I saw that you rated Jeleva slightly above Kess but recommended bringing Kess along if you know the meta or are playing with less than a four pod. However, I wanted to know your opinion when running a sub-optimal deck where they are more likely to be cast.

For example, if I'm less likely to hit a tutor off Jeleva, wouldn't I want Kess so that when I did find it I could immediately reuse it?

But as a counterpoint, wouldn't it be better to wheel for free especially if it's windfall or time spiral instead of WoF rather than wheel twice?

August 24, 2017 2:17 a.m.

In a non-optimized list you'd just have to test which performs better, though I wouldn't dismiss Jeleva only because a deck lacs some of the more expensive cards, after all a lot of the power of Jeleva comes from your opponents' decks since 3/4ths of exiled cards are not yours.

In a competitive meta and with an optimized list I do think that Jeleva is much better. Not needing to spend mana and being more live early game makes the deck better at what it wants to do while Kess is more about lategame value.

August 24, 2017 2:45 a.m.

YoshiCline says... #48

You raise some good points. I'll definitely test with both as I learn the deck. Are you planning to test with Kess at all?

August 24, 2017 5:35 a.m.

I'll pay extra attention to Jeleva's role and what she does in games where I cast her, and depending on that I'll test Kess. In the few games I've played since Kess got spoiled I've done that, and honestly the early game burst of gas and value has been so relevant I'm starting to doubt Kess as the commander more and more.

August 24, 2017 6:32 a.m.

majikal says... #50

I switched to Kess as my commander to test a few games, making no changes to the main deck (I run an Urborg, and the Pongify slot changes sometimes depending on the meta, usually Demonic Consultation) and so far I'm actually liking it better. Outside of the combo turn I have gotten extra value out of cantrips and tutors, and one game I got to recast a Mind's Desire during my combo turn.

Jeleva is also good at what she does, but my meta is full of removal, so it's kind of risky to play her. I think it really depends on how your group plays, but they seem to be on equal footing, with Kess being more backbreaking in a lot of cases, but a little less explosive.

August 31, 2017 1:25 a.m.

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