UpdatesFiend Hunter to deal with things like Rakdos Cackler and chump block Gravecrawlers in the meantime? what do?
Inspiration worth a card slot in here?
Azorius Charm and Think Twice. Also, is Tamiyo worth her spot in the list? Or could I drop her for more board answers?
Counterspell will always be useful in control decks. No matter how annoying cards that cant be countered are, there will always be other important cards that you can counter. I have seen lock down control like this work time and time again. The only thing that I would suggest is to find some early game card advantage cards. Anything that will let you draw should be good because control decks always need the card advantage. card:Judge's Familiar might also be a good addition do this deck.
September 6, 2012 6:12 p.m.
Yeah, things are kinda tough with Ponder and Preordain being gone. I was thinking Forbidden Alchemy, but then I'd have to find room for Snapcasters, and it's already pretty crowded. Would you say that card:Judge's Familiar is an auto 4-of? Like Lingering Souls in esper control?
September 6, 2012 6:25 p.m.
I could see card:Judge's Familiar easily being a 3 or 4 of. Card advantage will be difficult now but I will try to find something that could work for you.
September 6, 2012 10:20 p.m.
I think what I'll do for now(thanks again for the card suggestion, what you're saying makes a lot of sense) is slip it in the sideboard. My answers to plays start right off the bat at turn 2, and quickly come into play with Chromatic Lantern . I'll side in card:Judge's Familiar for the matchups where it's high tension with early spells that I desperately need an answer for. Awesome card, I'll see how it works out in playtesting matches! :D
September 7, 2012 12:43 p.m.
Aren't you worried you have too-few one-drops and that your threats are too expensive for you to protect when you cast them?
September 7, 2012 5:16 p.m.
Negate and card:Judge's Familiar come in game 2 if early responses and protection are needed, actually.
September 7, 2012 11:07 p.m.
I would consider taking out Chromatic Lantern, it just doesn't seem to fit in the deck to me. An also main Jude's Familiar Just for a good turn one drop.
September 9, 2012 10:48 a.m.
Some advice I would give you on this deck is that you don't really need 4 of Avacyn, Angel of Hope . Indestructibility is nice, but it's better to draw control cards or detain things. I would recommend running 3 Archon of the Triumvirate and 2 or 3 Drogskol Reaver , and 2 or 3 Captain of the Watch (produces a lot of bodies) or 2 or 3 Avacyn, Angel of Hope (since you already have 4). Also, why are you running Chromatic Lantern ? Between 8 dual lands, you should be just fine on your colors. I would recommend switching those out for more control or card draw. Finally, 6 board wipes might be too much 3-5 would be good maybe a 2-3 split between Terminus and Supreme Verdict . Also, a pretty good counterspell to bring to your attention is Syncopate . Finally, I think 2 or 3 Snapcaster Mage would be a good addition in such a spell heavy deck. I love Azorius control, and good luck playing with it.
September 9, 2012 11:15 a.m.
With so much stuff that can't be countered (spells and creatures).. i would suggest that you put more answers on whats on the board instead of countering them. If anything i would suggest to focus on non-creature counterspells instead of essence scatter like negate because if you already have many answers to whats hit on the board, you don't need to counter them compared to spells that can do you serious damages like rakdos's return for example. I also think you need more card advantage (card drawing spells) like think twice. I love Azorius control, always been a great fan of those kind of deck!
September 9, 2012 9:18 p.m.
I second Frisacra on Chromatic Lantern. I playtested this a couple times and it was definitely dead in my hand.
September 9, 2012 9:48 p.m.
I was intending to use Chromatic Lantern as a replacement for Pristine Talisman as the source for solid mana ramp. I'll try dropping the Latern out for now, and putting Essence Scatter down to 2, and slipping in 2-3 Negate and see how it playtests. Also, Avacyn was my primary win condition with board clear synergy. Indestructible 8/8 flier, blow up the field, keep swinging unopposed. I can see where Drogskol Reaver would be good though.
September 10, 2012 10:33 a.m.
Chromatic Lantern isn't bad if u need to ramp and being active.. like lightning angel control played by Tiago Chan in worlds 2006 who played with 6 signets. But from what i can see, you are more playing 'counters-draw-go' until you put a bomb in play, So technically the draw spells need to be instant speed. I personally think that there are good draw spells but in sorcery speed (which i don't think it will fit in your deck). So i think it always depends how the style of the deck is. Also it depends on the meta-game of your environment.. If for example everyone plays creatures/aggro, then for sure Essence Scatter will be better and the fourth Supreme Verdict will be good.
September 10, 2012 3:32 p.m.
September 12, 2012 2:44 p.m.
Good catch! Detention Sphere is in! As soon as Tappedout.net updates the card catalog of course, haha.
September 12, 2012 4:22 p.m.
It's gonna be hardcore good against the populate mechanic this block :D Super excited.
September 12, 2012 4:25 p.m.
They just released Counterflux, you might like that one.
September 12, 2012 4:48 p.m.
I realize now that was a stupid comment in every way, so I apologize. I didn't pay attention to the color of Counterflux, again my bad.
September 12, 2012 6:53 p.m.
Sphinx's Revelation is sweet drawing + life gaining at instant speed
September 13, 2012 12:36 a.m.
card:Sphinx's Revelation is a great lategame card draw spell to grab me a bomb if I haven't found one by turn 8. Taking out 1 Think Twice for it. Thanks for the suggestion!
September 13, 2012 12:41 p.m.
everyone is saying to add detention spheres for o rings! Take em out for other stuff. no problem with 8 o rings
September 13, 2012 8:10 p.m.
btw 4 hallowed fountain is a waste of money in 2 color control
September 13, 2012 8:11 p.m.
It's possible to play Syncopate on turn 2 as a Mana Leak replacement when you open with it. When you don't open with it, it's just another counterspell that's in your arsenal. It acts as both an Essence Scatter or a Negate on turn 2 to hit their Geist of Saint Traft or card:Runechanter's Pike. When I confirm that early pressure isn't a problem in game 1, I'll sideboard in Dissipate game 2 for efficiency. I like the flexibility game 1 though.
September 14, 2012 7:36 a.m.
Gonna warn you, this deck does not do well if Liliana of the Veil ever hits the field. I've been playtesting it against B/G Heartless (New Standard) and it doesn't win if she resolves. SAVE THOSE COUNTERS!
September 14, 2012 9:52 p.m.
4 toughness makes it tough to be aggressive and close out the game with, as it can easily be chump blocked and killed. Also, if I'm confident I can throw down Isperia, Supreme Judge and protect it. Whereas, if I swing with Archon of the Triumvirate , I can ensure that their blockers stay tapped down and don't get a chance to block/kill it. It reduces the amount of resources needed to protect my win condition. It's not a bad card, I just don't like it in this list. :]
September 21, 2012 10:46 p.m.
Not just blockers. Archon of the Triumvirate just wrecks planeswalkers too. It really is a fantastic control win condition.
September 22, 2012 12:59 p.m.
Ooh. I didn't even realize detain worked on planeswalkers. Azorius just got so much sweeter. It should also be noted that Archon of the Triumvirate is immune to both Mizzium Mortars and Selesnya Charm , putting it in a very favorable and rare position among creatures.
September 22, 2012 4:50 p.m.
Think Twice costs more than Inspiration (3UU versus 3U), but the flexibility of spreading that over two turns and being able to start cycling on turn 2 outweighs the cost advantage. card:Sphinx's Revelation undoubtedly trumps Inspiration as late-game card draw.
If Rest in Peace becomes the go-to graveyard hate, though, I could see an argument for dumping Think Twice in favor of Inspiration or Divination . Of course, Inspiration is instant-speed and therefore likely superior to Divination . And all that would probably be a sideboard question.
September 25, 2012 1:56 p.m.
The deck needs more land, with all of the X spells and 6-8cmc spells you got 26 or even 27 would be good.
card:Judge's Familiar is more for delver decks at will be at best a sideboard option for control the bird simply doesn't make sense in a deck that wins with haymakers instead of a flurry of quick jabs.
Finally you need more threats, 5 isn't enough to reliably benefit from the time you can get from a sweeper effect against aggro and 5 will almost always mean another control player will have enough removal to deal with every threat you can make especially since all of your threats are creatures.
Now any advice or +1's for Decendants' Path of a Lonely Road would be appreciated
September 26, 2012 8:56 a.m.
I surprised at the lack of planeswalkers. I know in todays meta they aren't a must have but if your running control I feel like you need a midgame threat that will either gain you incremental advantages or distract your opponents attacks so you can make it to the late game just in case you draw poorly or don't have the answers. I would say 2 tamiyo and 1-2 jace, architect of thought. I would switch the planeswalkers in for the judge familiars. Besides that I like your list :)
October 3, 2012 3:09 p.m.
I actually had both of them in initially, and I totally agree with what you're saying. My only problem is that I don't have the money for 2 Tamiyo + 2 Jace.
So for the purpose of this list(what I plan to run), I'm not able to fit them in. I basically have a choice between 2 Snapcasters or a few Planeswalkers in terms of money. Personally, I find the Snapcasters to give the best output for me.
October 3, 2012 3:22 p.m.
I added them back in for the sake of others that wish to play this list if they're looking for a starting point.
October 3, 2012 3:25 p.m.
I really don't see the point of card:Sphinx's Revelation, for a CMC of 4 you get 1 card... It takes 6 mana to out draw divination or inspiration....
Overall it's not a good card. Early game its a dead draw, mid game its a lesser version of other draw cards, and late game it might, maybe, kinda, help you out.
Seems risky to even have it in the deck to be honest.
October 5, 2012 2:59 p.m.
hey mate, im running something very similar but using Drogskol Captain and Geist of Saint Traft as my creature options, it's similar in set up, clear the path to swing in uncontested, 1 card that i find very handy is Inaction Injunction it can buy you a turn most times you play it and gives you a card for just 1U so i'm running 4 actually, i'm also running Lingering Souls and boarding Sorin, Lord of Innistrad just for options, if you have a captain out with a couple of tokens it's a nice early set up, if you then get a 2nd captain turn 4 or 5 your opponent is in BIG trouble, however i'm still finding it very hard to play B/G zombs unless i get the nut draw, in which case it just works really nice, i'll keep playing with it until it's more capable of handling zombies. Good luck with yours
October 10, 2012 8:44 a.m.
Have you tried Augur of Bolas ? It's a solid blocker and helps dig for whatever spell you need.
October 10, 2012 12:40 p.m.
I had thought about it actually. What irked me was that I generally wanted mana up for counterspells and EOT stuff like Think Twice as opposed to tapping too much down to dig for something. I think the amount of draw power I have right now is actually sufficient to find what I need when I need it.
October 10, 2012 10:59 p.m.
I'd upvote but I've killed too many kittens to do that... Great deck though, I originally thought azorius would be the worst guild but this deck looks incredibly playable.
October 11, 2012 10:05 a.m.
Thanks hollandboys, I appreciate the compliment!
October 11, 2012 10:16 a.m.
Played this deck at FNM. It didn't do well against Rakdos Aggro. ?add some lower mana cost creatures?
October 13, 2012 6:10 a.m.
Sideboard in Fiend Hunter and card:Judge's Familiar probably. I agree that this deck has problems with Rakdos, I'm actually in the process of looking for ways to make it naturally stronger in that matchup.
October 13, 2012 9 a.m.
If you're playing U/W control, you NEED to have 4x Terminus It's flat out the best removal in the format.
October 28, 2012 1:20 a.m.
I'd also drop the card:Judge's Familiar and Syncopate from the board and replace them with more utility cards.
October 31, 2012 1:40 p.m.
Thanks F, that helps a lot. I've actually been looking for more copies of Terminus lately, so that's in the works. Being that I have trouble stabilizing my life total versus decks that have burn spells(after the board is wiped) I can see where Drogskol Reaver would come in handy.
October 31, 2012 2:22 p.m.
He's better than people give him credit for. He is 6 damage a turn with evasion, huge life gain and card draw. Not only that but he isn't killed by Mizzium Mortars , Selesnya Charm , 5 toughness makes him hard for RDW to burn, Ultimate Price can't hit him. Obviosly Dreadbore and the like kill him but as you can see he is harder to kill than most, and only needs to be there for a turn or two.
October 31, 2012 3:03 p.m.
Any ideas with what to replace the Archon in my sideboard with? He's just a placeholder right now.
October 31, 2012 3:05 p.m.
I never feel happy unless I leave home without 4x Geist of Saint Traft in my board. Possiblu over the needle. But if your looking for a one of, then I'd got for Tamiyo so you can bring in a third against control match-ups.