For your first question, I would get rid of llanowar elfs, and Gyre Sage, for some combonation of Arbor elf and utopia sprawl effects.

B) No it is not better, because you have to wait a turn to attack with it before it can be used, and it can get killed by a removal spell before you can use it.

c)I wouldnt get rid of Prymordial Hydra, but i would get rid of either Reverent Hunter or Khalni Hydra for it.

D) yes Asceticism is better, it protects your creatures agaisnt a wrath effect, and your creature should be big enough that multiple blockers isnt an issue.

E) Bioshift can be removed completely.

Dryad Arbor seems bad, if its your early lands cant tap for mana. Youre not buffing him or need alot of creatures execpt for your other bad creature that can be replaced with a better hydra.

Thanks for the advice 12rreber. It's much appreciated

A) With the Arbor Elf / Utopia Sprawl combination, can you still use the effect to essentially cast something higher mana cost than the number of lands you have, such as with Llanowar elves? If not, does this not suffer compared to the Llanowar elves? I had Gyre Sage there mostly as it filled out a fairly low mana creature slot, scaled a bit, and could be used to stack up quite a bit of extra mana

C) I changed Khalni Hydra -> Kalonian Hydra, as it seemed like there would be too many high mana creatures if i swapped our reverent hunter, especially if i take out Gyre Sage too. It seemed unlikely I'd need Primordial, Khalni, and Kalonian as they all do much the same job.

D) Is the higher mana cost of Asceticism likely to be an issue?

E) Removed it. Though I'm curious as to why? (Sorry new to the game, still trying to learn stuff)

Yeh, now that you mention it, that doesn't seem a risk worth taking or that I get much extra from it. I just kind of thoguht 'hey free creature' i suppose. I switched it out for 4x Forest extra. Do you think 23 lands is sufficient for this deck?

While Garruk, Caller of Beasts is indeed a powerful card, I'm not sure having four of them is the most effective. Since you are running a lot of hydras his second and third ability is not as useful to you because I believe they would come into play as X equaling 0. Plus you cannot have more than one of them in play at the same time. Maybe take out two of them out and put in two more removal cards? Just a thought!

A) Yes its usually just better, Arbor elf is the same as Llanowar Elf, Both give you extra green mana, But if you have a Utopia Sprawl out as well, Arbor elf is giving you two extra Mana. (ontop of the one extra that Utopia Sprawl is already giving you)

The problem I have with Grye Sage is that it cannot help to cast a creature until youve already cast a creature, and when you do that you probably wont have enough mana to cast another one until next turn, but youll hit another land drop, So is Grye really helping you ramp, or just helping you if youre doing well, and a burden if youre not? (I think more of a burden)

D) It really depends on your meta, if it turns out to be the case. Something like heroic intervention might be better. And considering Doubling season is the same CMC it might not be the best call. Thats something youll have to decide by playing.

*A good hydra that works well with doubling season is Hydra Broodmaster

E) Im not really a fan of this card, because you wont really be moving around counters unless its to save them from removal, and at that point just save the creature.

I agree with EnederKvothe about Garruk.

Also Managorger Hydra fits better with the theme and has value after cast, not just when casted so makes a better 3 drop than Reverent Hunter

Oh and if budget is a thing and you cannot afford teh doubling season, Harden scales is a weak replacement

I also agree with the Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl combo for early fast ramp, replacing the Gyre Sage. The Sage is just too slow. Keep at least 2 Llanowar Elves because you really want to have a turn-1 ramp play, and right now you only have 4 1-drop cards, so the likelihood of having one in your opening hand could be improved.

Get rid of the Worldspine Wurm. It's too big to be cast and can't be reliably dropped from Garruk since there's only 1 copy in the deck. It also is a wurm, not a hydra, and doesn't deal with +1/+1 counters, so it's not a good fit here.

As before mentioned, Garruk's -3 ability will put your hydras in play with X=0 so maybe split 2/2 copies with Garruk Wildspeaker to get extra untaps of your Utopia Sprawl and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx lands. If I can think of more suggestions, I'll post again. Have fun!

Birds of Paradise can save you from a lethal flyer, potentially buying you the turn you need to swing for the win.

You have four two-drops as Primordial Hydra doesn't count and your other 2cc is Solidarity of Heroes. Strangleroot Geist goes well with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Doubling Season, and Reverent Hunter.

Reverent Hunter makes waves as a one-of. Alpha Authority is a good card to have at least one copy of. Wickerbough Elder can pull double-duty for you if you keep the Gyre Sage, and does extra work with a Doubling Season on the field.

Maybe Genesis Hydra would be good, since it has counters and plays an additional card

Hi Guys, Thank you for all the great feedback.

12rreber::

Okay, I'm convinced. I replaced the Gyre Sage / Llanowar Elves for Arbor Elf / Utopia Sprawl. Following Dervuid's suggestion I made space for 2 Llanowar Elves by reducing Kalonian Hydra to a 3-set and Managorger Hydra to a 3-set. I agree I need a little bit more at the low end of the mana costs, where as most my creatures i can always pay more mana for and have them scale.

Re: Hydra Broodmaster, I'm a little unsure what I would replace for it. I see it would do double work with the doubling season, just not sure what I would take out.

Budget is not a big issue. I don't want to have to sell my organs to buy my deck, but I have some funds i can throw it at it.

I replaced Reverent Hunter with Managorger Hydra.

Dervuid:

Done. Kept 2 Llanowar and went with the arbor / utopia sprawl.

I'm unsure on this one. You're definitely right it's too big to dropped normally, but the idea is using Garruk's -7 ability to bring him out (or -3 if it happens to be in hand, but i'm not counting on that). With the doubling season around this might even be an ability that can be triggered right away. If I were to remove it, pretty much all my remaining creatures have an 'X' based mana costs, which counts as 0 if Garruk's ability put it there, so I think to have this available as an alternative victory condition that the single worldspine wurm might be better left in. I realise it's thematically inconsistent, but I'm not so married to the concept that I don't mind a small deviation. I was basically jsut building around Primordial Hydra.

Done. This seems like a strong replacement to split the Garruk's 2/2. I was worried the 4 Garruk's would lead to more dead cards as it was anyway.

aswordforthefallen:

Do you think it would be wise to replace the 2 Llanowar Elves for 2 Birds of Paradise?

Re: Strangleroot Geist, I see what you mean, I'm not too sure what I would remove for it?

In the end I took out Gyre Sage. I replaced 2 Asceticism with 2 Alpha Authority. I would like to know if you guys think this the best way to arrange the protection for this deck (As 2 asceticism / 2 alpha)

Iron-eye2:

I'm not too sure about the Genesis Hydra. Pretty much every creature card it can bring out in my deck has an 'X' based mana cost which would come out as X=0, and so much of it's summoning power would be reduced. There's the Worldspine Wurm, but with only the 1 in my deck it'd be unlikely to draw.

Some things I'd be interested in your guys opinions on:

1) Do you think 23 Lands is sufficient for this deck?2) Is 17 Creatures enough, or is my draw chance on creatures looking a bit low?3) Regarding, Protection. Is 2 Alpha Authority and 2 Asceticism the way to go?4) Would it be better to have the 2 Llanowar Elves or 2 Birds of Paradise for the flying block (since I have no reach or flying)?5) Deruvid mentioned removing the Worldspine Wurm. Personally I think it works, and is a good thing to keep for Garruk's -7 (And if it gets killed it can keep coming back). Thoughts?

Cheers for all the feedback guys.

Also, given I lack removals, should I include these? If so, what cards would be good for our and what should be removed?

looks fantastic and fun to play! Wish I had doubling seasons to spare ;) I you'd like some inspiration to make it cheaper - both mana and money wise - take a gander at my deck The Stingy Hydra. Stay frosty!

"1) Do you think 23 Lands is sufficient for this deck?" Yes, with the mana creatures plus Utopia Sprawl, I think this will be plenty.

"2) Is 17 Creatures enough, or is my draw chance on creatures looking a bit low?" Yes, this should be fine. Each card you have slotted has its purpose, and no need to add more creatures just to reach some magic number of creatures.

"3) Regarding, Protection. Is 2 Alpha Authority and 2 Asceticism the way to go?" This should be fine. You'll still run into issues where you just don't have the protection you need at the right time, but it's not worth devoting more card slots to it.

"4) Would it be better to have the 2 Llanowar Elves or 2 Birds of Paradise for the flying block (since I have no reach or flying)?" Birds will be marginally better for the utility reasons you listed. It's just that you'll be paying several dollars instead of a few cents for the cards.

"5) Deruvid mentioned removing the Worldspine Wurm. Personally I think it works, and is a good thing to keep for Garruk's -7 (And if it gets killed it can keep coming back). Thoughts?" It really depends on how frequently you expect to get Garruk's emblem. Since we slashed two copies of big Garruk, it will be even more inconsistent to draw, cast, ultimate him. On the other hand, it does provide a strong win-con in the long game. It's also hella fun. I say go ahead and keep it in.

Ha - I like the thought process of 'hella fun'!

One last question - Ignoring the theme of the deck for the moment, given that 6cmc Garruk can summon any creature from my deck, what would be best in that slot?

Currently I have the Worldpsine Wurm, because it's green, possibly hard summonable if need be (though unlikely) and just doesn't go away, as well as a kind of game finisher. Though if I'm looking for a high mana game finisher that I probably won't summon normally, is there any reason not to just go all out and use Emrakul, the Aeons Torn? as that's more or less the ultimate in big ass creature that mess up your opponents day and won't go away (okay you won't get the double turn, but other than that). Alternatively, I could use the slot for the Hydra Broodmaster that a few have suggested - as it doesn't have an 'X' based summoning cost and I can use the piles mana the next turn to make it monstrous. It still does a pile of damage itself (Thoguh not as much as Worldspine Wurm or Emrakul) and lacks their tenacity in coming back from the graveyard, but even at the lowest end I should be able to spawn 3 3/3 Hydra tokens, though I don't think they get trample or anything.

So i guess my question is: For that 1x slot designed for Garruk summoning - Worldspine Wurm (As it currently is), Emrakul the Aeons Torn or Hydra Broodmaster?

After that, think I'm ready to buy my deck. Thank you everyone for all the help!

Nick

I think adding Vines of Vastwood might be a good addition.

Unsure if the Garruk, Caller of Beasts + Worldspine Wurm combo is either worth or on theme. As it is, you have no way to interact with your opponent's board. I would definitely have to suggest Beast Within.

If you're having a lot of trouble against blue players, Mistcutter Hydra is a great card to keep around in case you need to board it in.

If budget is not an option, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is a better creature than Worldspine Wurm. The biggest downside is that its a dead card if you don't have big Garruk. If you want to splash the money, go with Emrakul.

Wait, wait, stop all the. I just realized Garruk's ability must put a GREEN creature into play. So definitely not Emrakul. Wurm!

I do like the suggestions of Vines of Vastwood and Beast Within, though not sure what I would take out to fit them in? Will bare that in mind regarding Mistcutter Hydra.

Hydra Broodmaster is still green, could still use him or Worldspine Wurm?

hmmm Epideme, as regaurds to what i'd remove Id have to say the plains walkers, I know you might say they add a nice addition to the deck, and on paper yes that is true. However I play tested this deck several times, as I've built a hydra deck of my own, and I wanted to test the tempo of it, and what I can say is the plainswalkers didnt have much inpact at all in terms of speed. I still had game winning creatures on the field turn Seven at most, and even with plainswalkers on the feild It still adveraged around turn 7, however what I did find is it could definitally use protection, and the tempo of the deck could easily be haulted with a simple removal turn 1. I feel some early protection might garentee a higher chances of a win, or at least buy you enough time to get Asceticism or your hydra's on the feild.

Id also sideborg Autumn's Veil4x against blue and black

Between Hydra Broodmaster and Worldspine Wurm I'd probably play the Hydra because it's still castable even if you don't get big Garruk out. I would not remove the Planeswalkers because they are mana acceleration and card advantage. As far as protection goes, right now you've got 4 slots dedicated to hexproof in Alpha Authority and Asceticism. If you want Vines of Vastwood instead, then you would have to take out Alpha or Asceticism. Maybe split 3/1 Vines/Asceticism. If you wanted to carve a slot for a single Beast Within, then I'd recommend cutting a single Doubling Season because you really only need to have 1 out, and don't want to draw them in multiples. 4 might be a little too many.

I really think you should add Bioshift back into your deck as one of your ways to win with this deck needs it.

I quite liked the bioshift, but the argument seemed to be, it's primary useful vendor was to save counters on a dieing creature, which would be just as well saving the creature.

What should I remove to squeeze in the bioshifts?