Freyalise High Tide

Commander / EDH Slivortal

SCORE: 106 | 111 COMMENTS | 28626 VIEWS | IN 45 FOLDERS


Love-in-Theory says... #1

+1 Like the Deck!

Garruk, Primal Hunter?

(Check out my EDH The Warleader or The Prevailer? if you have a chance!)

September 7, 2016 12:09 p.m.

Slivortal says... #2

Unfortunately, this deck doesn't run that many large creatures; I cut Garruk PH in the past because the draw was very inconsistent and mana-hungry. Greater Good gets a pass because it costs a mana less, is a sacrifice outlet, and allows you to cycle through your deck more efficiently.

Thanks for the suggestion, though! I'll definitely check out your list.

September 8, 2016 9:35 p.m.

chirz2792 says... #3

Rude Awakening lets you untap all your lands for even more mana.

September 17, 2016 3:25 p.m.

Slivortal says... #4

Rude Awakening's actually a pretty interesting idea; I'll start testing it (Garruk mostly is played to +1 on your combo turn, and this is that but better).

Thanks for the find!

September 20, 2016 1:51 p.m. Edited.

Slivortal says... #5

After more testing, I've had to unfortunately cut Rude Awakening; while it's great for untapping your Cradle/Nykthos, it's relatively narrow and doesn't synergize well with the rest of the deck unless you have something to sink your mana too (at which time you're probably going off regardless). It was cut for Wall of Roots, which accelerates a faster Freyalise, blocks smallish creatures, and is good with all the Collective Unconscious effects.

Thanks again for the suggestion, though! It was fun to try out.

September 27, 2016 10:14 p.m.

Lilbrudder says... #6

I really dig the list. I especially like Defense Grid and/or Dosan the Falling Leaf and will likely try it out in mine as a way to prevent interaction on my combo turn. Now as for things I would suggest:

Terastodon: Arguably a stronger etb effect than Ulamog and it can be Natural Ordered.

Woodland Bellower: Grabs a ton of useful creatures.

Fierce Empath: One of those useful creatures. Gives you another way to get Regal Force into play. Elvish Harbinger can also form a nice tutor chain for you as well with empath or just get your big mana dorks.

September 30, 2016 6:58 a.m.

Slivortal says... #7

Thanks for the suggestions! Yeah, Dosan and Grid end up being pretty necessary in Freya, as FoW sets you incredibly far back, and Commandeer just outright prompts the concession.

I've tried the Bellower/Empath package before with mixed results. The Bellower itself isn't bad, as it provides 2 bodies and value, but my major problem is how bad Empath is if you draw it naturally. Do you run any interesting targets to combat that problem? If Empath's in my opening hand, it just feels like I'm relatively far behind; affording threat+3 mana before the ult turn can be difficult.

Tdon's pretty interesting because of its interactions with NO, but Ulamog'a pretty necessary to deal with hatebears that can be gumming up your gameplay. Tdon also runs the nasty downsides of giving your opponent material to pressure Freya, and a Bribery target that can set you pretty far back. Newlamog also provides a second Eye target; all in all he's surprisingly one of the cards I'm pretty impressed by in this list.

Do you have any suggestions on cuts for testing new cards? I've considered dropping the land count further, but it already feels pretty low considering I'm running Arbor, Eye, and a bunch of colorless lands.

I've also considered tossing in Symbiote/Quirion, but given that there are only 3 relevant untap targets, I'm unsure of whether it's worth it.

September 30, 2016 9:48 a.m. Edited.

Lilbrudder says... #8

I can see why you wouldn't like Terastodon in your deck and Fierce Empath is admittedly a lot better in an elf ball deck. Since your ramp package is more about lands I don't see value in untap effects.

As for cuts I always start at the top of my curve first as those cards are terrible in your opening hand. This may be due to a lack of experience with the card but I'm not a huge fan of Wolfbriar Elemental. Sylvan Offering seems like a good political tool that also combos with Priest of Titania. Have you given any thought to Staff of Domination. It seems like a nice combo piece given how many infinite mana combo creatures you have.

September 30, 2016 7:19 p.m.

Slivortal says... #9

Wolfbriar Elemental is definitely in contention for one of the weaker spots in the deck; the fact he has little value when cheated out is a big negative against him. The only thing he's really great for is being the 4th "token generation" spell after Hermit/Avenger/Hornet. But you're probably right in that Sylvan Offering could very well be better; that sounds like a great card to test out.

I agree with you completely with the "expensive cards are clunky" statement, though doing it in practice is difficult. Ulamog's a great out to certain hatebear/Leo strategies (that also gets around counters), and Kozilek's mainly there for the shuffle. I think the 6+ drop that has the highest contention of being taken out is Craterhoof, which then means we cut Greater Good most likely. I'm just a little hesitant due to how Craterhoof can be an emergency backup plan, and the synergies between it/Greater Good/Devoted Druid.

Will try testing Sylvan Offering over Wolfbriar Elemental. Staff of Domination is the "infinite" effect I've come closest to running because it provides a wincon and 6: Draw a card is great if you've obtained infinite mana via other means, but it's still hard to justify given how there are only 3 creatures to go infinite, and it still requires the haste outlet unless you manage to untap with one. I'll try to find some kind of cut to give it a shot.

Thanks for the advice; anything else look kind of weak in addition than Wolfbriar? I've been playing the deck for long enough that it's become hard to evaluate cards like that, which I'm used to seeing.

October 1, 2016 2:47 a.m. Edited.

Lilbrudder says... #10

Realm Seekers and Wood Elves are just ok. I dont use either despite playing elfball. I think Eldritch Evolution and Elvish Harbinger would give you more functional copies of your infinite mana creatures and have more utility in general than the two you have.

October 1, 2016 6:24 a.m.

Slivortal says... #11

Wood Elves is actually a pretty good cut. I'm a little cautious on cutting Realm Seekers; the deck really functions its best once there's a Cradle/Nykthos on the field (enough so that it's willing to spend 9 mana to do it), and Seekers is the only card that provides a creature-based tutor to that route.

October 1, 2016 6:58 a.m.

beninator says... #12

Hall of Gemstone seems good here. You're only using one color, it's only fair your opponent's have to do the same, right?

October 1, 2016 10:42 a.m.

Slivortal says... #13

Hall of Gemstone is somewhat awkward in that it only works defensively after a full turn cycle (no impact on combo turn), and it doesn't stop rock mana. However, I haven't tried it in the current build, so I think it definitely deserves a chance in the spotlight; dropping this in the pre-Freya turn seems backbreaking, even if it's not great once you're starting to go off.

I'll test it and get back once I see how it does. Thanks for the advice!

October 3, 2016 8:14 p.m.

Slivortal says... #14

C16 is out! I'm trying to find room for Benefactor's Draught, but I'm having trouble finding room. Suggestions? Also considering Defense Grid vs. Conqueror's Flail, but Grid is cheaper and therefore probably better.

October 30, 2016 4:03 p.m.

Slivortal says... #15

Original thoughts for cuts are potentially Oracle of Mul Daya, Bane of Progress, and/or Wolfbriar Elemental. All three have been very good to me, though.

October 30, 2016 5:47 p.m.

Acmegamewerks says... #16

You might want to consider Khalni Garden, Pendelhaven, Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, or my favorite land Treetop Village. These are just suggestions and the final cut is always up to you.

Deck is really nice and looks like a lot of fun! +1

November 1, 2016 3:57 p.m.

Slivortal says... #17

Khalni Garden comes in from time to time. It can slow down your fast Freya casts, but there's a lot of value to be had from the 1/1. Pendelhaven, Oran-Rief, and Treetop are fine, but a little slow for what we're trying to do.

Thanks for the advice!

Additional note:

Testing: Wolfbriar Elemental cut for Spontaneous Generation

I could be wrong, but it seems like there's a lot of value here. Will test.

November 1, 2016 10:43 p.m. Edited.

HyourinmaruX1 says... #18

Unless you care about basics (with, say Earthcraft and Utopia Sprawl) Pendelhaven is just better than a forest. Though i guess that you do care about basics. That one game where you have no basic lands and you do have both pendelhaven and utopia sprawl, it would feel bad.

I don't know, these are just my two cents :P

November 9, 2016 9:55 a.m.

Slivortal says... #19

Basic Forests are pretty important vs Blood Moon/Ruination/Back to Basics/Wasteland/Dust Bowl, and they have the aforementioned interactions with Earthcraft, Utopia Sprawl, and even Mouth of Ronom. Meanwhile, pumping 1/1s doesn't do a lot for you, other than letting your Freyalise tokens block 2/2s, which are already rare-ish in my meta.

I have considered Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers before, not for its buff effect, but because it takes out Horobi and common Phantasmal Image/Makeshift Mannequin targets. It was an interesting thought exercise, but I'm still not sure if that makes it worth it.

November 9, 2016 8:05 p.m.

Slivortal says... #20

Spent a little while testing a The Great Aurora version of the deck, but it was just too inconsistent and fragile. Spontaneous Generation -> Wolfbriar Elemental has been changed back, largely due to the fact that Generation is a "win more" card; there are points in the game (if you're disrupted) where all you need is an army in a can, and Generation doesn't solve that problem. Now, some changes:

-1 Bane of Progress

+1 Song of the Dryads

Bane has a problem in that it's good when it's good, but it's terrible AND overcosted when it's not. Song of the Dryads is cheap, and it deals very nicely with a number of problematic generals such as Leovold and Saskia, as well as large fliers that would otherwise slam into Freyalise, like Atraxa. Far more flexible, far cheaper. Sounds great to me.

-1 Defense Grid

+1 Skullwinder

While Defense Grid worked well for a while, it's really not necessary with Dosan and all the creature tutors that this deck provides. In a more control-oriented meta, I think Grid finds its way back in for sure, but Skullwinder provides another cheap tutorable Regrowth effect (EWit often gets Path'd to prevent recursion), and provides an extremely relevant 1/3 deathtouch defender/deterrent for Freya. In comparison, giving back the least threatening of players at the table a Regrowth is not that important to have access to such a powerful blocker.

The next cards I'm eying as cuts are Craterhoof Behemoth and Greater Good. Now, cutting either of these cards in a mono-green deck sounds like blasphemy. However, this deck wants to win quickly with its board, and without Crossroads, Craterhoof is actually a fairly slow win condition, that requires multiple turns of setup. In these scenarios, its only really powerful use becomes a 2-card combo with Greater Good that allows you to draw your deck for 12 mana. This is great, but somewhat of a pipe dream, considering that Greater Good can't be tutored for. In their place I am considering a Fierce Empath/Woodland Bellower package. While I don't normally like this package (mainly because of the low power level of Empath on its own), adding a second EWit effect may push the power level into acceptable enough for the deck. Some lines include:

Bellower -> Elvish Archdruid/Priest of Titania - Ramp

Bellower -> Empath - 6 mana tutor for 6+ creatures (mana sink)

Bellower -> Wood Elves -> Dryad Arbor - 3 creatures for 6 mana (to fuel Unconscious effects)

Bellower -> Fauna - long-term tutor (fragile, but decent payoff)

Bellower -> EWit/Skullwinder - recursion

Bellower -> Wall of Roots - reduce its own cost by virtual 1

Additionally, Empath can allow for GSZ -> Empath -> Ulamog for only 14 mana as a way to deal with Leo and similar hatebears. This is much more efficient than the GSZ -> Realm Seekers -> Eye of Ugin -> Ulamog line, which requires 25 mana and a land drop. It also allows for Kozilek to be cheaply tutored if you need to draw cards in a pinch.

Additionally, I'm considering Lotus Petal and Elvish Spirit Guide as ramp, but I'm not convinced yet. The last thing I want in this deck are more dead draws in the lategame.

Is Bellower/Empath better than Craterhoof/Greater Good? Are Lotus Petal/Elvish Spirit Guide worth playing? Let me know!

November 21, 2016 9:07 p.m. Edited.

Slivortal says... #21

I really like the current iteration of the deck, but I'm trying to make more room for interaction like Nature's Claim, Natural State, and Null Rod. Does anyone have any ideas for potential cuts?

April 7, 2017 3:39 p.m.

LordNazahn says... #22

Have you considered Nissa, Worldwaker as a ramp slot? She almost pays for herself with her plus, then is ramp every turn after.

June 13, 2017 3:02 a.m.

ThatManDo2 says... #23

Im not a very good commander builder and i am interested as to why Gauntlet of Power is not in the deck as well as Caged Sun. I consider these to be very powerful in mono coloured decks.

June 19, 2017 6:06 p.m.

Slivortal says... #24

I used to run Nissa; she's pretty strong, but the problem is that you're really focusing on comboing off before you have a chance to abuse her, and the payoff just really isn't THAT high (+4 mana is nice, but at best you're playing her the turn before you combo off). I may try her soon for old time's sakes, but I really wasn't too sad to see her go.

I'm not a fan of Gauntlet because it's such a double-edged sword. Caged Sun is a card I used to run in past revisions, but has since been cut. The big deal with Caged Sun is that you need to play it and have it stick in order for it to be good; one could make the same argument for Mana Reflection and Doubling Season, but those cards are still very good mid-combo turn (Reflection due to its ridiculous interaction with Cradle/Nykthos/Deserted/mana dorks and Season due to its ability to turn Freya into a card draw machinegun/infinite mana out).

Sun used to be important to leverage Earthcraft before I started running Utopia Sprawl/Wild Growth, but those two cards fulfill that purpose without being nearly as expensive (in terms of mana cost). It might be worth trying again sometime, but like Nissa she sits on an awkward place on the curve (ideal is Freya -> tokens -> win, but even in non-ideal cases neither Nissa nor Sun contribute overly well to the board).

I'm really looking forward to Ramunap Excavator; I may be overrating it, but I'm interested in just how powerful it'll be to have a tutorable Crucible to combo with Cradle/Nykthos/Deserted.

June 20, 2017 11:26 p.m. Edited.

Enral says... #25

Your list looks incredible but I do have to question the inclusion of Hornet Queen and Avenger of Zendikar, I get the token + mana generating potential or getting infinite tokens with sabertooth but I feel like you have more than enough redundancies to powerthrough a win without those. I might not be seeing your line of logic, please correct me if I'm wrong. Cool deck nevertheless +1

June 23, 2017 11:43 a.m.

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