I just wanted to thank everyone that commented and voted here, you made me reach 50(!) votes, I personally think that's a lot so i'm flattered but more importantly, you guys improved my deck. Thanks!
There's been quite an overhaul, check comment #10
White deck, basically a Kuldotha Forgemaster fetch deck with an agRessive edge. The idea is to get the opponent on his heels during turns 3-5, possibly kill him with the big creature count and fieldbuffs like Tempered Steel and Signal Pest. if this does not work out for any reason the forgemaster can get what you need in a Steel Hellkite, Myr Battlesphere, Eldrazi Monument or last but not least: Blightsteel Colossus.
Th deck needs work, so please let me know what you think would be good for it!
+1 if you like it, comment why if you don't!
seems pretty good here, I like this idea I too have been playing around with the idea of a deck using the battlesphere and the vat. I never thouht of the forgemaster tho, thats a pretty clean addition Id say!
December 21, 2010 1:51 p.m.
thanks, you can leave your +1 in the upper right corner ;) do you think i should put in less control? i'm not too sure if it's necessary with this much bodies, any ideas?
December 21, 2010 4:30 p.m.
take out walls and condemn and add tempered steel and youre ready to go
December 21, 2010 6:48 p.m.
i like the concept but as everyone has said Tempered Steel is definitely a must for this deck (think of the crazy amounts of myr tokens running your opponent down...mwahah.) anyway. +1
though, i definitely think you should keep Condemn
As for the Wall of Tanglecord it's cheap and a good thing to put out, but i feel like it will inevitably slow your game down. good deck though.
December 21, 2010 7:01 p.m.
Keep the dispense justice and the condemns. As awesome as your bodies are, there are times when they resolve a grave titan or something that is a problem and you need answers to deal with it. Also, condemn works around your opponents mimic vat, which is a huge deal since, at least around here its not unusual to find decks that play 3 of em since that card is just so awesome, and then the look on their face when they drop that mimic vat and you condemn their big creature that they totally assumed was going to be mimic vat material and they were planning on using it to wreck your life. You have to have answers to problem creatures and those are great ways to do it- condemn and dispense justice. Dont drop those unless you plan on replacing them with even more answers. Tempered steel IS crazy good option for this deck...I think the best options I see for taking out...are 1 voltaic key, or maybe 1 myrsmith, and then drop the two tanglecord walls. You shouldnt need to do much defending since thats what your answers are for.
December 21, 2010 8:02 p.m.
added 2xTempered Steel after a bunch of requests :) i agree with it though. i do think 3 is maybe a bit much, since there's a lot of other wincons in here, and i'd like to keep in 2 voltaic keys because they allow me to search for 2(!) Myr Battlesphere s/Platinum Angel s/Mimic Vat s with the Kuldotha Forgemaster in one turn, as well as help out with extra mimic vat uses, Myr Reservoir uses, and sometimes even 1 extra mana from the Palladium Myr s.
December 21, 2010 9:12 p.m.
+1... there's no more to say. its a good deck. how does it do in tournaments?
December 21, 2010 10:43 p.m.
i have no clue O.o, i thought it up yesterday :)
Never even played tourneys yet. All the wisdom i have in magic (if any) comes from this site xD
December 21, 2010 10:45 p.m.
Like the deck. Are you considering taking it to FNM or anything?
December 24, 2010 8:52 p.m.
thanks, and no, not yet, gonna play it to friends first, see what needs to be done to get it working optimally, same reason i put it on here :)
i need some input, because i feel that it's close to finished, but could still use some work.
comments very welcome
December 24, 2010 8:59 p.m.
Man..this deck seriously looks scary. This is a dseck to be reckoned with for sure. I already know from experience if you get off a vat against control, you basically win. I keep attacking it from every angle I can think of...Id say that day of judgemenet would wreck this but the mimic vat and the reservoir prevent that. The same goes with counterspells. If they counter up against your myrs, it doesnt even matter because you can use your reservoir to get the myr right back! Thats crazy! Thats not counting the archangel of indestructibility. Id say that aggro decks with burn spells and stuff would have a field day with you...but you have so much ramp that you can prolly keep up with some of the fastest red decks even. And if not, you have 6 ways to stabalize in the form of condemn and dispense justice. Valakut might give you trouble...unless you side tectonic edges, or something like that, but at the same time, your deck is possibly as fast as theirs and they dont have many blockers to take care of that battlesphere which you will ramo on the field turn 4 or 5 O.O I dont know how you would handle quest decks but again it seems like if you answer their threat you would probably win anyways...and you can always side in more answers if need be. I know how devaststaingly fast the battlesphere is and so I dont know how much trouble you would have with titan decks...except maybe frost titan, if they start tapping down your battlesphere..that could be problematic.Wait...holy crap you can untao your battlesphere with the voltaic key! This deck is, theoretically at least, incredibly competent against a high number of mtachups... Unbelievable. The weakest cards at this point in the build are tempered steel(note that I said the weakest cards in the build...not that they are weak cards _;;) and possibly myr smith....and those are helpful on so many levels. I concede this to you: You have a solid deck here. Congrats man, I cant wait to hear how this does at a tourney. I already gave it my +1 but I would give it 2 more if I could.
December 24, 2010 10 p.m.
Tempered Steel is not the weakest card in the deck. It's a force multiplier, and with the numbers he has a chance of amassing it's a very effective one at that.
Lilwolf just gave me an idea, though. Because of the pretty high amount of tutoring you can do with this deck, you could potentially Condemn one of your own high-toughness creatures to gain life, and then it doesn't matter if they're on the bottom of the library because you can just tutor them back.
In most cases it'll be a better play to save the removal for, well, removing...but it's an interesting option to have.
December 25, 2010 3:06 a.m.
Wow, so much praise!
I must be honest, i haven't built it yet, i'm still missoung out on 3 spheres, 2 forgemasters, 2 emeria's and a vat, but that should be fixed after the holidays are over.
Even though this all sounds very good, i'm still very much open to suggestions in case i missed something :)
December 25, 2010 5:42 a.m.
Platinum Angel is fun but I'd hardly call a flying 4/4 a win factor. Sure with a Tempered Steel or Indomitable Archangel it becomes way more annoying, but with the numbers you're running of those cards I don't see it happening very often. I think running 2 Steel Overseer would help you out more, because when they pop up you'll always get to use their effect, and the counter don't go away when they die. They are also 5 less to cast. Just my 2 cents. Overall great deck +1.
December 26, 2010 2:37 p.m.
How about Steel Hellkite instead of Platinum Angel? It's cheap to acquire & in my experience, very effective...
Tempered Steel is crazy good also, maybe work another one into your deck somehow..
December 26, 2010 3:23 p.m.
I've never really played the deck yet, so ill swap an angel for a hellkite, one of both should suffice anyway, due to the tutoring. And the kite should provide a good sink. Thanks!
December 26, 2010 3:50 p.m.
@Magnorcriol- I agree with you that it is a crazy effective force multiplier. Im saying that it is, imo, still one of the weaker cards in the deck. I only say that simply because he already has lots of great creatures and the ability to basically smash his opponent anyways. Its not necessarily just a win more card at this point, but its possibly one o fthe closest in teh deck, thus making it a 'weaker' card choice. I was really trying to draw more emphasis to the fact that I feel the deck is really good as opposed to saying the card is bad or anything like that.
December 26, 2010 5:48 p.m.
i guess one Wurmcoil Engine would be nice, to add even more versatility to the deck, it also works neatly together with the forgemaster.. i've put one in for a Myrsmith , or do you think there are other cards to take out?
January 2, 2011 7:55 a.m.
I like this deck +1. Mimic Vat decks are lots of fun =D. Have you tried out Semblance Anvil at all? Could help accelerate you even faster up to the Kuldotha Forgemaster . Granted, as a tradeoff you are giving up two cards from your hand to make the rest cheaper. Not sure what I'd remove to try it.
January 2, 2011 4:03 p.m.
+1 a tutoring deck always fun, because it can search your answer :) i wonder if this cards can be a help or not, may be can be put in sideboard
Etched Champion --> protection of colors
Emerge Unscathed --> protect your angel
Sword of Body and Mind --> for another win scenario
Tectonic Edge --> valakult and eldrazzi ramp
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre --> milling deck
Precursor Golem --> instantly give you the metalcraft and kuldotha sacrifices
January 2, 2011 10:56 p.m.
Another suggestion maybe is to add a couple of myr galvanizers. Then when you attack with the battlesphere you can untap all your myrs to tap them again or swing with them also.
January 3, 2011 2:55 p.m.
@cnielsen05 thx, no ihavent tried the anvil, but i'm just not comfortable with the imprinting, it seems like a bit of a waste, because i do not have any draw i'd like to keep the cards i get until they're of use :)
@Champion thanks also! Those are some good SB suggestions, i'll get to making one pretty soon.
@Tbshaw i'm not saying the galvanizers arent good, but in this deck they don't fit. also, you can't untap with it and attack once more with the sphere, because declaration of attackers is simulaneous, and no interference is allowed. Thanks for thinking along tho!
January 3, 2011 9:39 p.m.
only a d bag would make this deck.what a tool bro. this deck is literally terrible. why no black lotus or jace 2.0 wow kid learn to play. scrub.
January 3, 2011 10:41 p.m.
lol @ Graemachine93
Nice deck, very versatile. If I had to choose something wrong with the deck (for feedback purposes of course) is that glaringly high 3 mana slot. Not saying its bad and the deck works beautifully as is. Just something to mull on if you find yourself having trouble the first few turns. +1
January 3, 2011 10:55 p.m.
I would seriously consider precursor golem.
A. You instantly give them all shroud with your archangel
B. You sac them, whenever you want, in response to them dying, and get yourself a myr battlesphere as a replacement.
C. The golem will be too big to bolt with tempered steel
D. You put it on the mimic vat and keep making tokens/sacking to the forge
E. You get the idea.
I believe the golem is a perfect addition to your deck... :) +1 for the deck.
January 4, 2011 1:09 a.m.
You truly need to hurry up and make this deck before you continue to get lots of feedback lol. Some of these suggestions are good but possibly not necessary, but its hard to know if it will work well. theoretically this deck is solid haha, IRL....well...it IS a game of Magic. In the meantime you just end up swapping theories and not knowing if it really is for the better 8D
IM DYING TO HEAR SOME TOURNEY RESULTS FROM THIS DECK!!
January 4, 2011 1:35 a.m.
alright, i've started MTGO recently, and i had decided to build this deck if it was under $20, and it's come down to ~ $19, so you're in luck :P teh wurmcoil engine is missing from the build so far though, but that shouldn't get in the way of its strategy. will be playing my first match soon :)
January 4, 2011 2:58 a.m.
Maybe throw in an Eldrazi Monument for a myr reservoir for another win condition and help from losing creatures to a DoJ. Plus you can tutor for it.
January 4, 2011 10:23 a.m.
Ajani Goldmane is good for the Battlesphere though. +1/+1 and vigilance, swing with all 5 (Sphere+myrs), then tap myr's for sphere - also, the way I read it, if it has vigilance, you could tap the sphere for its own ability if you wanted to.
January 4, 2011 10:58 a.m.
@Phrancheyez that is technically true that the myr could tap itself when it attacks, which is fun...but ajani would be a win-more card at this point. Tempered steel does the same thing, almost better, for cheaper.Understandably he does only have 2, but there isnt much roo for something like ajani, I wouldnt think...his list is pretty tight. Ajani is considered one of the current weakest planeswalkers right now because he is really only good in a very specific type of deck-tokens. This isnt a tokens deck, it just features a card that gives a couple tokens. Also, if the battlesphere is waging war with the opponents face, its like a 3 turn clock, max, unless they deal with it anyways. At that point they want to try and block it as much as possible, but the extra damage from tapping down his myrs adds up way too fast. Even if ajani gave them all vigilance and a little bonus, he probably would want to attack much with the myr tokens because they can get dead a bit too easily...and the battlesphere is supposed to be getting blocked anyways or the extra damage is irrelevant =b
January 4, 2011 11:10 a.m.
like honestly bro just take appart this deck its so bad. this deck would lose ever game kid your a d bag. scrub.
January 4, 2011 12:50 p.m.
Question. If you have two Battlespheres out and swing with both then tap X myr, does both battlespheres get the +x/+0 and deal the x damage directly to your opponent? Also with the myrsmith, if two are out and you cast an artifact and pay the 1, do you get two tokens or do you have to pay the 1 for each myrsmith?
January 4, 2011 12:52 p.m.
@ Graemachine93 loltroll
@ Tbshaw the sphere's only got +x/+0 for the myrs that they themself tap, if the effect is caused by a different battlesphere, only that one gains the bonus, and only once does the ability go off that you do extra damage to your opponent. With the myrsmiths, you have to pay twice for 2 tokens
so i've been playing on MTGO, and the deck works pretty well, the tutoring works perfectly and the cards are pretty good, although i must say that Tempered Steel has yet to prove it's place. the new objective though, is to find a good sideboard, because i find that a lot of times, that's when i have no answers:
Champion already made some nice suggestions, i'll hear any and all others you have to share.
January 4, 2011 2:59 p.m.
hmmm all white ratchet sideboarding huh? what to do there? perhaps a couple tectonic edge for the side to help against man lands and ratchet bomb to help against aggro? really some of the only white cards that are good for a sideboard are...answers. Oh and artifact/echantment hate such as revoke existence(which is a HOT card because of all the mimic vats decks and decks like yours =b) journey to nowhere, ratchet bomb, condemn, day of judgment(not saying I approve...altho it IS nice to force things onto mimic vat) revoke existence, kor firewalker, celestial purge... those are the best options I can think of =/ hopefully some of them will prove useful
January 4, 2011 3:42 p.m.
wow im not a troll you d bag. scrub. but honestly this deck looks pretty douchy
January 4, 2011 4:18 p.m.
If you use manage to mimic vat the battlesphere, you could use an eldrazi monument and darksteel forge combo. eldrazi monument makes creatures +1/+1 flying indestructible, but need to sacrifice 1 each turn. Darksteel forge makes artifacts indestructible, so no one can kill the monument. +1 btw
January 4, 2011 6:23 p.m.
@Graemachine93 is it because this deck couldn't be less like Jund, which I take it is your favorite archetype? Lets face it, white is pretty girly (it has angels) but that doesn't make it douchy
@jessetaverne Tempered Steel isn't living up to it's reputation because you only have 2 of them. Thats 1 in every 30 cards. This means you probably wont even see one by turn 9, by then it is too late to be useful anyway. Either put 4 in or drop them completely (the latter as a last resort only)
Also, fill it with cantrips or fetchlands.
I know its your creation, and I respect that (+1) but I would make a few changes.
-3x Myrsmith -2x Indomitable Archangel -1x Myr Reservoir +2x Tempered Steel +2x Arid Mesa/Marsh flats +2x Prototype Portal
January 4, 2011 6:50 p.m.
well the thing is real men play jund decks so i guess im the only one with bawlz on this website. scrubs.
January 4, 2011 8:50 p.m.
but i can't! jund is my hero! only scrubs play standard magic. noobies.
January 4, 2011 10:06 p.m.
i actually built this deck online and made a few changes:
- took out platinum for a 2nd wurmcoil engine
- took out the resivors for land and them to side board
- added day of judgement and another condemn for more control and to fight quicker decks
- took out myrsmith because of mana issues and added wall of omen
overall these changes have actually made the deck competitive against most high end decks yet still really fun. Hope these comments help. Thank for an awesome deck idea.
January 4, 2011 11:59 p.m.
@ infectorus: i'm still considering the precursor golems.. if i decide to put in 3/4 tempered steel i might add them
@ jarrod: Thanks for the suggestions. do you really think running 4 of the tempereds will be a good idea? Especially when taking out myrsmith, those 2 seem like a nasty piece of work together. I agree with the smith btw, it's got to go. The archangel has been moderately useful so far, i'll test more before taking it out. The Portal is an idea, i'm not too sure how that's gonna play out though, because of my moderate ramp and expensive creatures i might not have the mana to make use of it.. On the land, one more couldn't hurt i think.
@ zuckfat: thanks again for the hellkite suggestion, it's proven a VERY useful card to tutor up against for example an army of elves summoned by Nissa Revane 's ultimate, or a bunch of tokens or whatever.
@ tyvirus: nice, good to see i inspire ;) dunno if you can PM on here, but if you give me your MTGO username we can fight it out sometime :)
I added a sideboard too, should speak for itself, but def. let me know if you have ideas, because i feel it's lacking!
January 5, 2011 11:59 a.m.
hey that was my friend hipster515 on my account. he is really imature so sorry for all those comments. non on this deck were acctually me... so yeah sorry my friend is a dick.
January 5, 2011 1:31 p.m.
While I like this deck I do have my reservations. It has a much higher mana curve than I typically like. The myrs and the myr reservoir are certain helpful, if you're finding that the mana curve is actually a problem I think 2 Kor Cartographer s might help, if not then no problem there. I'd say maybe throw another condemn and dispense justice into the sideboard for RDW and maybe Journey to Nowhere for a quick eldrazi deck.
I'm not as sold on tempered steel as everyone else despite it being a great addition on most cases. If you splashed blue into this you could get basically a couple other ways to untap your artifacts such as Twitch and Tideforce Elemental . Though I don't know what you would take it or even if you would want to splash blue, though I'd actually like a little more control in this deck personally.
Still an amazing deck regardless.
January 5, 2011 11:18 p.m.
i'm also a bit concerned with the curve, if i'd fill up my 2 cmc slot a bit more, it's a lot better, because i can usually fill it with the golden myr, but that's not always an option. I have no clue with what though, if i decide to add blue, i could add Silver Myr , if i don't, maybe Perilous Myr ? that last one hadn't sprung to mind yet and might actually be a good option, for some extra control too.
i don't think the cartographers are a good option, due to their 4cmc, by which time i've already got some mana producing myrs or myr reservoir on the table. it's really just t1 and 2 that are a bit empty.
adding blue... needs thought on my side, i'm not excluding it yet, but it would make the deck less reliable, manawise.
another consideration: Golem Artisan , opinions?
January 6, 2011 7:39 a.m.
When are they going to ban Graemachine93? At least the other trolls occasionally offer funny comments, this guy is just a total waste of time.
On another note, I just started MTGO, once I get things up and running I would love to play against this deck :)
January 6, 2011 8:01 a.m.
I personally love Golem Artisan. It's such a great utility card. Perilous Myr isn't a bad idea either, I haven't run it in anything yet though.
January 6, 2011 10:58 a.m.
@infectorus. You can't ban trolls. They just make a new account
January 6, 2011 7:02 p.m.
Graemachine has already apologised for his behaviour, and said it wasn't him but a trolly friend of his, so IMO he doesn't need banning at all, but that's a topic for somewhere else.
the more consistent steel is VERY helpful, the perilous myrs are great against fast decks like goblins or WW Quest, or even elves, and besides that help the curve, i've updated the deck, let me know what you think.
January 7, 2011 5:28 a.m.
1 small update, i've taken out 2 arid mesa's and 1 wurmcoil engine, as i don't actually run them on MTGO, all of the other cards i actually own, so that's why they're out if you're wondering.
if i ever would be so lucky as to find a wurmcoil or 2, what should i put them in for?
January 7, 2011 5:35 a.m.
and sorry for the spam, but i've noticed that i most definitely need an indestructible creature in my SB, maybe even MB, to tutor for when a day of judgment hits my field. i was thinking Darksteel Juggernaut , other ideas?
January 7, 2011 6:15 a.m.
More news! i'm taking out Emeria, The Sky Ruin (because in the 100 or so games i've played it never went off) and 4 plains, in favor of 2 more Tectonic Edge s and 4 x Dread Statuary . manlands are awesome, especially when running so much Tempered Steel .
January 7, 2011 11:46 a.m.
The Tempered Steel s are a definite stay. Very powerful when you have a 4-of.
The Perilous Myr s have won me several games, particularly against swarming decks like elves and goblins, they just can't really attack with the myr out, because it ususally kills 2 of them. Definite stay!
Precursor Golem : definite stay, has proven to be very valuable in a lot of matches.
the man-lands and more tec. edges are a good change as well, they provide fire against valakut and an extra attacker that most people don't seem to notice until it's too late, especially with tempered steel out.
January 8, 2011 12:44 p.m.
for the record; i've almost never had the mana to do something good with the Dispense Justice s, that's why they're out.
also, i've changed my mind, and i will keep 1 condemn more, and leave the eldrazi monument out. (that thing is ~12tickets on MTGO O.o, for the ones who know what i'm talking about)
January 8, 2011 12:48 p.m.
Awesome deck dude totally want to build and play it!
All in all though kick arse build +1!
January 9, 2011 12:49 a.m.
Somehow...I think you actually made this deck even more incredibly competent than it already was... AWESOME
January 9, 2011 1:35 a.m.
@ madmanbenji: Thanks for the feedback! The mimic vats are gonna stay in, 3 condemns is enough for now, and the mimic vat has proven to be invaluable, a 3 of pretty much guarantees one in a game, and it is really helpful when people want to get rid of battlespheres, forgemasters, you name it. I hven't actually had the chance yet to test the juggernaut, but i think it will prove helpful against day od judgment, so i'm gonna wait and see what it does for me. I agree that a wurmcoil or 2 would fit in, but atm just a bit too expensive. The platinum angel... I'm still not sure about it, i think a wurmcoil would be better, but for now it does ok.
The silences in the SB i have considered, but i wouldn't know what to use them against particularly, can you tell me what you would use them for?
The etched champions are in, they should be good to side in when there's alot of hate, for example by B/R vamps, i'll take out the precursor golems for them when necessary.
January 9, 2011 6:14 a.m.
Hey dude, first to answer your question I normally play Silence as prevention against my opponent ruining my next move.
A simple example, during my turn if I would be screwed by a counter spell, I'll play a Silence first and wait for a response. Most people won't counter it unless they have another counter in store for you a clear signal to not play your hand.
Otherwise I use it to frustrate my opponent by keeping them a move behind, if you see them setting up a combo or something, play a Silence during their upkeep denying them that crucial play unless they waste a counter on it, which generally does the same thing.
As for my first fixes, your right!
When you can afford it the +2 Wurmcoil Engine is a must, far better then the Angel, the Juggernaut (Day of Judgment is no prob) and even the Hellkite.
So the numbers in my build are 22 Creature, 22 Land and 16 Spell
Side deck is looking like this:
January 9, 2011 7:22 p.m.
I've been playing this against your venser bounce deck today. Much fun was had. +1
January 9, 2011 7:33 p.m.
@madmanbenji: your deck is probably just as solid or maybe even more solid than mine, good for you :D silence is an idea, i've never really played with it so i guess i'd have to test to see its effects. So far on mtgo, the darksteel juggernaut has been very useful tbh. It already survived 10's of DoJs, including 2 of my own from the SB.
@all: I've taken out 1 Precursor Golem for a Golem Artisan , i've noted several occasions where it would've been very useful. Those situations where you summon the battlesphere out of nowhere, and next turn, you attack with it, turn your myr into battlesphere food, THEN sac them to the forgemaster, conjure up Golem Artisan , give trample/flying: kill. This scenario happens quite a bit actually, so that's why the artisan is in. it's just very nice utility. although i must admit that the Eldrazi Monument might be better. (but so expensive!)
Also: My worst matchup is control, what can i do about it? i have literally no idea, except for SB-ing an extra mimic vat and myr reservoir, HELP!
January 9, 2011 8:09 p.m.
@ Trakanon, good to know you're a fan ;)
out of curiosity, which one won? i'd say venser, but i could be wrong.
January 9, 2011 8:12 p.m.
Dang it, didn't read the comments until now, I see you already thought of Silence . My bad :P
January 9, 2011 9:31 p.m.
Hey man, I took the time to go ahead and make htis deck so I could play around with it and see some results for myself and see if I could find any constructive crit for you to help ya out. First I played 2 matches against my mono black deck. Its not really a control deck with mind sludges, duress and inquisition all main. Its more of a black deck that uses liliana specter, gatekeeper of malakir, consuming vapors and a couple skin renders to for the control, while the rest of it is just some old fashion beatdown with abyssal persecutor, grave titan, nighthawks, and a couple of skith for good measure. ... despite my best efforts, I lost to the black deck 4 out of the 6 games V.V I had one of my friends who is the person who actually taught magic, and is one of those people that could make a deck blindfolded and take it to an fnm and make top 5 lol. Hes a good player, so I made sure to switch off with him a couple times so we both played 3 games. I know we should play more but he had to take off for the night so we can try a couple more later. the thing I think that hurts this deck the most, is the lack of draw. You can ramp pretty well sometimes, and get a big threat or two onto the field, but one of the biggest problems we continued to run into is simply that our hand emptied out too often and thus teh deck is unable to continue with the pressure. We had two games where the forgemasters were able to pull out a battlesphere with a mimic vat on board=GG. However I noticed that in both of our games, as soon as kuldotha came down, there was usually an answer to be had for it. One game both decks had out double vat, but the kuldotha deck was having problems because I couldnt draw into the artifact I would need to sac so I could get something wonderful on the field. Also, despite trying precautionary measure of not overextending and making sure to always hold back a couple bombs in case of Day of judgment, I found the deck just has a really hard time recovering effectively after one hits and wipes out like 2-4 ramp myrs and a hellkite or something. I dont know what advice to offer for these losses or how to remedy it, but it seems like if there was a way to keep your hand fresh and strong, then this deck would be absolutely overwhelming. The tempered steel did hammer things home as well, it made lots of the creatures into mediocre threats where there otherwise wouldnt have been cause for worry. However if for any reason the tempered steel was lost the deck tended to fold. The mimic vat also helped immensely, being able to imprint that batlsphere is absolutely nasty, and the same with the forgemaster or precursor golems.
January 9, 2011 11:03 p.m.
(cont) One last thing about those matchups...Neither of us found the myr resevoir as impactful as we both thought it would be when loking at this list. In fact out of out six games, we used it only in two different games, and that was after having to discard the battlesphere. Othr than that one card, we didnt find the ramp useful at all because the other myrs that ramp you tend to come down fast enough already, leaving me with an almost empty hand that had nothing the resevoir could help with.
January 9, 2011 11:04 p.m.
We also ran it against my current esper control deck. We didnt do any sideboarding for these matches, because we wanted to see the deck 'raw'. ... Sad day in kansas I see what you mean in your description....this deck has a rough day against control matches. most of the time cards like mana leak were closer to ineffective because of all your ramp, so that was good, but if the mimic vat doesnt resolve, its a completely uphill battle it seems =/ The tect edges did prove invaluable, however I found myself hurting for the mana when I had to use the tect edges, because day of judgment is a hard card to recover from _;; Precursor Golem was not so great against this matchup because of condemns, and journeys. Also, while its a beast on the vat, Sun Titan has a big body, and I found the deck has a bit of trouble workig around that and that recursion that sun titan provides. the battlesphere can attempt to go through him, but more often than not, simply because the ramp creatures tend to go unanswered, the big boys like the sphere get condemned, or journeyed too fast for my liking. And I use lots of draw and dig in my control deck so day hits at least once almost every game, and again, that is one of the biggest hurdles to overcome, especially when the sun titan comes down afterwards and starts getting back the creatures that were lost on my side to the day. I dont even know what to say about this matchup either for the deck, except against both of those matchups, I felt like ,if you splashed a color(not sure what:blue or black) then my friend and I both agreed it could significantly help the deck....the biggest problem with that is that it would basically be changing the deck from what you want it to do, and finding an optimal balance if you did decide to splash would be incredibly difficult to do and still retain the basic idea of this deck. Im out of ideas, maybe others can find suggestions based off of these results, but I wanted to report in case you ro someone else has any good ideas that would benefit from this knowledge. Good luck in more playtesting!
January 9, 2011 11:27 p.m.
hey Lilwolf, first of all, let me say that i think it's awesome you're playtesting my deck to see if u can give me advice! Really appreciate it!
If i'm reading right, you did SB when fighting against black, right? because i find that i can usually make quite the comeback against vamps or similar decks after SBing, even though a discard deck is probably way different from fighting vamps.
Secondly, against control, and a lot of other decks, i have found Silence to be an immensely useful card, as it allowed me to finish my turn in peace, after which they were pretty much doomed, so there's 3 in the MB now. My thanks go out to madmanbenji for convincing me to try it!
I hope you did enjoy playing the deck though, i know i do :D.
Aside from that i've almost completed the deck offline, got my 2 other battlespheres and forgemasters yesterday, as well as a tempered steel and 2 vats, i'm still in need of the manlands and 2 tec edges, as well as 3 silences and 2x Condemn , but those shouldn't be too hard to come by.
January 11, 2011 5:29 a.m.
hey hey, a short update. I've been having great fun with the deck, mostly on mtgo. i am considering to get another silence in there, maybe another condemn too, the controlling is just VERY useful. question is what to take out though, i am considering a palladium myr and a gold myr. anyone else suggestions?
January 19, 2011 7:03 a.m.
Looked at 10 opening hands. Gold Myr and/or Palladium Myr showed up 8 out of the 10 times. I second your decision for more control and support your decision to take one 1 of each mana myr. I wonder how much this deck is going to change when Besieged comes out.. =P
January 19, 2011 8:56 a.m.
Why not just substitute 2 more plains for your arid mesas? I don't see how the fetchlands would benefit you... All in all, looks pretty good though.
January 19, 2011 9:12 a.m.
the Arid Mesa s help me with filtering my deck from mana, i don't want to draw lands after turn 5 or 6 anymore, i want stuff i can play, and so the arid mesa helps getting me land, while taking out an extra land when i sac it, and it doesn't slow me down by bringing a land tapped into play, like Evolving Wilds would.
January 19, 2011 9:54 a.m.
Ok good point, I see the logic there. I would keep the Silence s 100%, they're so OP in practically any deck hahaha! As far as the Gold Myr s are concerned, I feel like you could get by just fine with 2 of those in here. Then, I would invest those 2 open slots to another Palladium Myr and Perilous Myr .
January 19, 2011 10:16 a.m.
@ nightwielder: i took out a Palladium Myr and not a Gold Myr regarding my curve. The curve is still way off, what a normal curve looks like, but the 3cmc cards are just very good in this deck (mimic vat, palladium myr, tempered steel and myr reservoir).
January 19, 2011 11:40 a.m.
I actually didnt sideboard against the black deck, either, but I agree that sideboarding is probably your best friend against lots of decks. Overall tho, the deck was a lot of fun to play =3
January 19, 2011 2:18 p.m.
As a sideboard note against control, I would place in 2x Phyrexian Revoker . It's always nice to make jace, the mind sculptor a moot point. Signal Pest might be another option instead of Perilous Myr against quicker decks. When pumped with Tempered Steel they can be pretty deadly. Not sure if they fit with your strategy, just brainstorming a few ideas for the release. I stand by the Phyrexian Revoker though.
January 19, 2011 4:13 p.m.
I playtested it a couple times against my Still my turn deck and it came out about even. If there was someway to throw some card draw in here, I think it might help. I also found that when I was able to mana leak or journey to nowhere your kuldotha, it became a much easier game.
January 19, 2011 4:20 p.m.
@ lilwolf: yes it's amazing how good it feels to hear them say 'your turn' and then you say 'at the end of your turn i sac these artifacts with the forgemaster and pull out a some awesome artifact' and then kill im with it on your turn . I must agree though, that this deck can not compete properly with the current tier1 decks (aka jace and the valakuts). Still lots of fun are being had .
@wah: the Phyrexian Revoker is VERY nice, hadn't thought of it as a planeswalker killer, then again, it only kills them for as long as they don't have spot removal, which jace decks tend to have, esp after sideboarding against my deck.. i'll throw it in against the Etched Champion s when besieged comes out, they haven't done any proper work for me yet.
January 19, 2011 5:24 p.m.
@rckclimber: your deck looks like fun, are you sure you're playing 50/50 against mine? yours seems better.
If you have any suggestions for carddraw, i'd like to hear them, because i can't really think of any but Temple Bell ...
January 19, 2011 5:32 p.m.
yea I mean I only had a little bit of time to play so I only got to playtest a few times. Since you are playing a white deck, you could probably put in some wall of omens, but then again it isn't an artifact creature. How about Dreamstone Hedron ? you get the mana if you need it for some of your win conditions and if you find that you need some more artifacts on the field then you can sac it and draw three cards.
January 19, 2011 5:49 p.m.
hehe, pretty similar to the 1st deck I built for the new standard, except for a few card choices I kinda disagree with.
I strongly recommend dropping kuldotha forgemaster. The ability seems a little irrelevant with your highest cost card at 7, and considering how well Tempered Steel works with large numbers of little dudes, the tradeoff doesn't seem worth it.
3* mimic vat seems a bit heavy, since it's a card which gets worse with more copies, and your only removal exiles, rather than sends to the graveyard. I'd drop down to 2.
I also tend to use Wurmcoil Engine over platinum angel/steel hellkite. I can see your argument there though, so I guess it's a metagame call.
Steel Overseer is the thing I really feel your deck is lacking. It's ability to help you swarm just can't be ovverrated. An absolute 4-of.
Since your 4-drop slot is empty at the moment, how about playing Lodestone Golem . Not one I'm certain about, but I think it deserves a shot at playtesting.
Also might be worth trying out Origin Spellbomb
January 19, 2011 6:58 p.m.
@ peppyhare: thanks for trying to help. I appreciate it. However, the focus of this deck is less on tempered steel and more on the forgemaster. The idea is to ramp up to the forgemaster with the mana myr, and then sac those (not the forgemaster) to grab what i need at that particular moment. If I'm in no hurry I'll grab a battlesphere and next turn sac its minions to grab an appropiate card.
The platinum angel is here against decks without a lot of removal, as in that case, it will win games.
Mimic vat is VERY useful in this deck, as i can put anything in there that isac with the forgemaster, including but not limited to the battlesphere and the forgemaster itself.
I agree that the wurmcoil should be in here, but it's kinda hard to come by atm.
Steel overseer is good, but doesn't fit the bill, as don't intend to win with beatdown, the tempered steels are also merely backup.
I have considered lodestone golem, but i feel that it would not do enough to warrant its spot. Also i often use the 4 cmc slot for a 3cmc card and a silence for example, as i don't like to be fully tappedout, because it gives my opponent too much security IMO.
Origin spellbomb would be a great first turn drop but i honestly wouldn't know what to take out for it.
I am not trying to say that your suggestions aren't good, i think they'd make a good deck, but it would completely throw my whole deck idea of utilizing the forgemaster as good as possible, and change it into just another swarm/beatdown deck, which i find rather boring to play.
Hope i don't come across too stubborn or anything, just trying to explain why i run what i rum. Thanks again!
January 19, 2011 8:40 p.m.
with your myr manaramps, you could at least control the opponents every other turn with that combo...wouldn't they be pissed?
January 20, 2011 8:08 p.m.
Actually there are faster ways to use mindslaver, if you look at my deck, it uses it very well. I personally think that this deck doesn't really need that kind of control.
January 20, 2011 8:29 p.m.
Prototype portal won't fit the deck i think.
The mindslaver portal combo is amazing, but realy you overestimate the power of my ramp. I often barely get to 7 mana on t5.. but yes they would be very pissed :p
@ rckclimber; i think you're right in that this deck doesnt need that kind of control. It still is an awesome combo though.
@ all: On Mirrodin Besieged: ofcourse i will incorporate the Blightsteel Colossus , one Tempered Steel out and it's already a win. But what do you guys think of ichor wellspring?(link: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/mirrodin-besieged-spoilers-0155/ you might have to scroll down a bit.) I was contemplating it for its draw, and seems to work nicely with the forgemaster, een though that's the only way i can kill it... Opinions wanted!
January 21, 2011 3:02 a.m.
yes, ichor wellspring would work great with the forgemaster in this deck. 2CC to draw 2 cards is a pretty good deal for an artifact, but it really begs the question of what you would be willing to forgo in order to make some room? I feel like this deck has great synergy already after just a few playtests and quick ramps, so no use in fixing something that isn't broken if you get my drift!
January 21, 2011 3:32 a.m.
Yea I'd have to agree with Nightwielder while it's great to be able to sac and then grab two cards, not sure what you would take out in it's place. I mean the only one that I would consider there is myr reservoir as when I was playtesting it, I normally just used Kuldotha to find a myr battlesphere instead of hardcasting it. I'd also wait and see what else this set is going to bring as it appears that they're putting in TONS of draw cards into besieged, there may be a better option.
January 21, 2011 10:33 a.m.
Yes i agree, i'm gomna sit out all the spoilers and see what happens. The reservoirs are pretty useful lategame too, mostly against control though, otherwise there's usually not much of a lategame.
January 21, 2011 1:20 p.m.
Some considerations: I will probably take out the myr reservoirs. In their stead i will return 1 Palladium Myr and i will put in at least 1 mirrorworks.
(Mirrorworks, Artifact, 5 mana, Whenever another nontoken artifact enters the battlefield, you may pay 2. If you do, put a token that is a copy of that artifact onto the battlefield.)
Especially this last card is a good consideration, who wouldn't want an extra Myr Battlesphere for only 2 mana? This card seems like a very strong option for me, and i think i will at least fit in 2 of them when besieged comes out. Besides it just being awesome, it's not even when you cast an artifact, but when an artifact enters the battlefield, meaning i can copy creatures i fetch with my forgemaster, as well as copy creatures that enemies may play (gimme ur wurmcoil plox!)
Does anyone have comments on this, or suggestions as to what to take out for it? I'm thinking the Precursor Golem , or the Platinum Angel maybe. especially this last one has not been doing much for me..
January 23, 2011 5:05 p.m.
Oh and i forgot three other options: Myr Turbine.
(Myr Turbine, Artifact, 5 mana, 1+T; Put a 1/1 colorless Myr artifact creature token onto the battlefield. T+Tap five untapped Myr you control; Search your library for a Myr card and put that card onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.)
Another way to bring out the Battlesphere... worth it? i'm not sure yet, what do you think?.
and Myr Welder.
(Myr Welder, Artifact, 3 mana, Imprint - T; Exile target artifact card from a graveyard.Myr Welder has all activated abilities of all cards exiled with it.)
To get back my Forgemaster's ability when it's milled or shot down... This might be overdoing it though, opinions?
AND Shimmer Myr.
(Shimmer Myr, Creature - Myr, 3 mana, Flash, You may cast artifact cards as though they had flash.)
January 23, 2011 5:15 p.m.
drop Golem Artisan its good in draft but not to great in standard
January 24, 2011 3:31 p.m.
I think I will drop it when besieged comes out and i gather the required cards to make this deck better, but until then, the artisan can stay.
I have won many games on that card, just because people thought they had an incredible defense going against my battlesphere, when i summon this dude and give the sphere trample or flying.
It is hard to play against because it makes me unpredictable (If i fetch it on their EOT of course, which is usually how it goes).
January 24, 2011 3:36 p.m.
id say, myr turbine 3x for platinum angel, steel hellkite and precursor golem, mirrorworks for the reservoirs, golem for the additional sphere and a tempered steel for the additional palladium, i could replace perilous for the welders, the shimmer i dont fancy since most of your vital action comes EOT... surprise, pretty much the same.... i certainly will not take out the vats, they bring enough threat as it is to your opponents, what im trying to do with the build is to consistently bring out my spheres early with forgemaster or turbine. im even considereing removing the remaining tempered steels for chalices since were trying to be consistent of pulling out the spheres and utilize its direct damage. but then again i consider these in our meta..... :)
January 25, 2011 2:21 a.m.
Hmmm, I still haven't made up my mind about all the new cards, i agree with you that the Shimmer Myr will be overkill, also i think the Myr Welder will not be good for the deck, as the 3cmc slot is already very busy.
Now I've taken a look at this deck and I'm just not really certain of it anymore. It works, it doesn't do AMAZING, but it can hold it's ground. I feel however, that I need to start making choices. Do i want to make this a swarm deck (meaning that I keep Tempered Steel and focus more on the force multipliers with a lot of small creatures), or do I want to focus this deck more on fetching with the forgemaster, just getting out big guns with as little effort as possible?
There's just too many options for me and it's kind of driving me insane.
I have decided, in the end, that I will stick to my current strategy, because Myr Turbine is a good card, and so is Mirrorworks , but they're not what i'm looking for. somehow i feel obliged to go full on myr when i'm running the turbine, and the forgemasters fetch enough for me already..
Anyways, I can sit here all day telling you what i feel like, without further ado, here's the changes I have made to the deck:
And here's why; (read next post, they don't allow > 3000 characters/post)
February 1, 2011 4:52 p.m.
The changes are made mostly based on creating a better mana curve and having more food to sac., as well as reshaping the deck as it was meant to be (less swarm, more awesome fetches).
Thus 2 Tempered Steel s had to die, I'm considering taking them all out, but I'll wait for some feedback from you guys first.
The Myr Reservoir s are nice, but never really helped much except for against control, against which the mimic vat is simply better.
Golem Artisan is unnecesary, as i have such a variety of fetchable creatures that his abilities are not necessary anymore, although i must say that a nice mana-sink is never bad with 8 manamyr... Who knows, it might come back.
Platinum Angel really only works against elves, which seems to be the only deck running little to no removal, although after sideboarding the naturalize would still kill it.
Palladium Myr is just too useful for when one is unable to find a forgemaster, hardcast that sh*t ftw!
As I mentioned I plan on always having enough chump to block any big threats with and still have enough to sac to the forgemaster. Enter Myrsmith . She was in the deck before, but i kicked her out. Here's her second chance.
The Wurmcoil Engine has finally made it. Now to find one on cardboard...
The Spine of Ish Sah provides another fetch for the master, and if not it's an affordable life-saver, which can be re-used after feeding it to the forge.
Inkmoth Nexus provides mana, and when the forgemaster comes to collect he can tap to make himself an artifact and therefore sac-able).
Mirrorworks . I know I said in this same post that it just doesn't belong here, but then i thought, what IF i can get it on the board.. A copy of ANYthing i fetch would probably be game. (2x Blightsteel Colossus on your endstep, anyone?)
So i started this post pretty negatively, but now that I've worked it over a bit, it feels right again, hope you like the revamp!
February 1, 2011 4:55 p.m.
And 2 more changes: I took 2x Etched Champion out of the sideboard and replaced them with Phyrexian Revoker , as well as taking the Precursor Golem out of the mainboard and replacing it with another Mirrorworks , because i'm just so anxious to drop several fatties with one forgemaster-fetch.
p.s.: Comment #100 :D
February 1, 2011 8:02 p.m.
card:Master's Call is instant speed for two artifacts which seems nice.
February 6, 2011 12:12 a.m.
@Trakanon: I actually haven't ever been to FNM, I rarely could find the time for it. I did however test the deck on MTGO, and it does pretty okay. I haven't implemented any of the recent changes though, as I don't have any Besieged cards yet.
@monomearl: I would have to test them, but for now, they will replace my 2 leftover Tempered Steel s. It seems like a nice addition and an extra surprise factor. Imagine the faces when there's only a forgemaster on my board and they decide not to waste kill spells on it because there's no other artifacts. boom instant Blightsteel Colossus in your face.
February 7, 2011 7:24 p.m.
So i've been testing the deck a lot on MTGO, a tweaked version that is (deck:forged-victory-mtgo) as it's less expensive and without MBS cards.
The thing i noticed the most is that the Steel Hellkite should be at least a 2-of. It does so much for me. It completely screws up elf decks and wins games on its own if there's no opposing flyers to hold him back.
February 10, 2011 11:13 a.m.
February 10, 2011 11:22 a.m.
sooo... I've been playing even more on mtgo and decided to get myself into the tournament practice area and found out it still holds together very well! And that's the non MBS version deck:forged-victory-mtgo... :D +1 myself .
February 10, 2011 4:40 p.m.
also... after some valakut match ups which i lost about 80% of the time, i realised 3x Leyline of Sanctity is mandatory in this deck (rdw and valakut are omnipresent)...
one would think one of all of us would've thought of it. :P
February 13, 2011 4:21 p.m.
I find this deck to be a refreshing change of pace from a lot of the decks currently played. I intend to play test this deck asap and report back what I can find. As a Valakut player myself I do agree that the leylines would not be a bad idea. Great deck so far Keep on keeping on!
February 15, 2011 5:34 p.m.
heh, thanks for the kind words (and +1) :)
it'd be great if you can tell me what your finds are! So far the leylines have worked moderately, the problem is that if they can get valakut up and running, they usually just burn my creatures to the ground and bash on with a primeval titan until death follows, even with the amount of removal i have against them (2x condemn, 2x day, 3x journey).
@all: Is there no way in white to kill off valakuts other than the obvious Tectonic Edge ? (which i run standard in most of my decks, it helps against basically everything nowadays)
Problem is that I have no way of getting rid of it, except for with my own removal.
Worth it? there's enough ramp to hardcast most stuff...
Let me know what you think!
February 15, 2011 5:55 p.m.
And then another thing: I'm gonna try and run 2 Voltaic Key s in here, as I'm curious whether they will have the desired effect...
I'll let you know
February 15, 2011 7:45 p.m.
I've replaced 1 battlesphere and 1 mimic vat with a plains and a Mindslaver
That last card can really seal the deal if i can fetch the right cards.
February 20, 2011 11:14 a.m.
Okay guys, I would really like for you all to check out my blue edition of this deck: deck:forged-victory-blue-edition. It's based on the white version you see here, but has a more control-y side to it, and i'm trying to work out if it has more of a purpose than this one here.
Please look it over with the wisdom of the masses and let me know what you think!
February 21, 2011 6:34 a.m.
Alright. Big update.
I have been struggling with this deck for a while now, which eventually led me to trying out the deck idea in a different colour; blue: deck:forged-victory-blue-edition is the result of that and i can with hindsight say that it has suited my needs better than this one has. With blue i can scan through my deck until i have the right cards on hand to safely lay out my combo, as well as protect it with counterspells.
This white version has been doing alright, but not as good as blue and i think i know why. I have tried to make the white version too much with a blue playstyle, there was not enough board presence, ramp-myr aside and it was just too slow.
That's why i decided to give this deck a good kick in the nuts and not so much change my strategy, but mostly my alternate win-condition and the foundation of the deck. For the ones who have seen it before; notice the difference in curve, it's much steeper now, the 2cmc slot is crowded, as i think it's the slot that should in most agressive decks be best represented. Tempered Steel is back in a playset, Signal Pest has entered the ranks, Steel Overseer is here to help and most fatties left the building. The main forgemaster target will probably still be the Blightsteel Colossus , but in case they have a lot of blockers or somerhing else might cause him trouble, the secondary target is now the Eldrazi Monument to support my army. It should also be very nice against stuff like Day of Judgment .
I am very curious what you people think of my new setup, please let me know! Any criticism is welcome!