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U/W/G lock-down until Filibuster counters make you win.
Similar to Turbofog, this deck is an attempt to get some use from the Elocutors. I figure that since proliferate rotated out, using Temporal Mastery is the only way to increase the Filibuster counters fast enough to make it worthwhile.
+1's and Comments/Suggestions are welcome.
I am running this at FNM. I appreciate all the advice, as it has helped shape this deck and we're doing pretty well with it. It has no problem going a dozen turns against most decks. I like the Elocutors, but they are not getting me all the wins I need. Let's see if we can strengthen this a little and wrap it up.
Make a little birdhouse in your soul.
Round 1, I won 2-0, against U/W aggro. Tamiyo got her emblem out for me, with a Fog in hand and an Elocutor on the board, so Filibusters won me first game cleanly. Then for game 2 we were over 20 turns into it, and a crowd had gathered. I top-decked a Door to Nothingness with an Alchemist's Refuge out, held onto it, he drew a land and at the end of his turn I flashed out the Door and activated it on my upkeep.
Round two: I won game 1 with Filibustering. But I made a critical mistake in game 2 against a very similar deck - Bant control, with Thragtusk /Restoration Angel win condition. I was at 1 life but had total control and 3 Filibuster counters on an Elocutor, and he had no creatures. I top-decked a Tamiyo and for some stupid reason tapped myself out to cast her. He flashed a Resto angel at the end of my turn and killed me with it. I had Safe Passage and Snapcaster Mage in my hand. sigh. He won game 3 as I got mana screwed.
Subsequently I had some bad games, and some really good games, but never recovered from that round 2 bungle. I won round 3, lost 4 & 5. I got some nice compliments on the deck, and I really enjoyed playing it. I definitely have to put in a stronger win condition, but I'll let the Elocutors hang around - probably a 2-of. Isperia only came out once but she ROCKED. Found myself having to use Supreme Verdict a few times while an Elocutor was out with counters on him, there must be a lesson in there somewhere. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker killed me once - I found my defense against planeswalkers was lacking... maybe Pithing Needle ? But Nevermore - my new favorite sideboard card! Leave it in sideboard so they don't bring in enchantment killers, and then bring it in for the awesome proactive countering! It's the greatest way to get around all the counter-killers available these days.
Possible Turbofog accessories:
Righteous Authority : Not too shabby!
Otherworld Atlas : a must-have card draw engine
Staff of Nin : extra card draw and a bit of damage where needed
for sideboard, to stop reanimating and Snapcasting
-- cancel that, I want Rest in Peace in there instead!
Psychic Spiral : Whaaa! Turbofog DEFINITE!
Sphere of Safety : ok, now I'm going to have to make a Turbofog-Enchantment-Elocutors deck... this is cool!
Not to put too fine of point on it, but you perhaps could consider cancel or syncopate.
Arctic Aven is a nice bluebird of friendliness, and like Entreat the Angels its always near.
Those should give you enough evasive blocking to stall until the Elocutors have enough bees in their bonnets.
There, swapped up a bunch to add in the green Fog s and others. Correct that I'm trying to avoid counters, but Syncopate or just Negate might be good sideboard against direct damage. Safe Passage and card:Faith's Shield are there for that purpose too.
Added Tamiyo, the Moon Sage because she's good for lock-down and draw. Looking for ways to get some more card draw, so that I can be sure to have a hand full of fogs and an Elocutor. Any suggestions what I could take out, and for which draw engines?
Play testing has had those spheres get wasted most often on single-target items, and I've found myself with a lot of mana in long game while waiting for the elocutors to top-deck. Tamiyo is my only draw and I love it every time she comes out. In this deck I don't often go for the emblem, usually just tap-down and draw cards.
TurboFog loves extra turns. What Fog decks have you ever played? Any time you can use a PW twice before your opponent's turn, drop an extra land, draw an extra card, let yourself tap out for card:Sphinx's Revelation, and/or get another filibuster counter, that's solid value that can wind up winning you the game.
Turbofog wants to be drawing more than one card in the same turn, a strategy that does not work particularly well with miracles as your chances of hitting one are roughly halved. That's why it died for a while between post zendikar rotation and avacyn restored due to the loss of temple bell and the eldrazi. Turbofog loses pretty quickly if you don't get the turbo, so, whislt an extra turn is always helpful, getting the turbo is a lot more helpful. My comment was more on the synergy of miracles as a mechanic with turbofog as a concept, and in losing that mechanic, temporal is just a more expensive timewalk.
Yes, but you need both. 4 turbo's isn't enough for a consistent turbofog. To be truly consistent you need 6 to 8. I played the landfall version with Hedron Crab , aswell as using jace's erasure, and the Temple Bell on top of the rights was absolutely vital. Turbofog was much weaker without that, and while it has been since replaced with Otherworld Atlas , Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre meant that you didn't have to rely on Elixir of Immortality or using with Snapcaster Mage , which can be a bit unreliable at times. Overall, the deck is weaker than it was 15 months ago at the release of M12, when it was stronger than it has been since the times of Howling Mine and Font of Mythos .
I like the idea of the Door as an alternate win con, but maybe it is a bit weak. I could try swapping it for a biggie, like Avacyn, Angel of Hope or even Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker or perhaps Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius !
What do you think? Or maybe I need some Jace, Memory Adept action. I don't know. Play-testing has this deck doing pretty well, but having a Nevermore or Slaughter Games come out against me just shuts me down. Unless I'm lucky enough to have a Detention Sphere in hand, I usually lose quickly.
If you're swapping it for a fattie, go for Angel of Serenity or Armada Wurm . There is also Entreat the Angels for an alternate win-con, and Jace is usually worth a try. Nevermore and slaughter games aren't widely played cards, and having the alternate win-con should deal with that for you.
True, I don't want the deck to have such a glaring weakness. If I happen to get a game one win, they will probably sideboard some creature removal for the elocutors or artifact hate if they see my lanterns as useful, or if they get Tamiyo'ed they'll grab something like Dreadbore .
I pulled a Jace, Architect of Thought last night, but I'm not sure if he's good enough. Jace, Memory Adept may be better, as he provides draw and the occasional mill win. Still doesn't say "I need to be in here!" to me. I have a Drogskol Reaver too, and it keeps looking at me with those crazy arms outstretched...
I want to take this out to FNM tonight - what do you think - ?
It's not really the right deck for the new jace. I do like the reaver in this deck though I think Archon of the Triumvirate or Isperia, Supreme Judge are better choices if you have them, or Armada Wurm . If you can get hold of Angel of Serenity in time then run her but if not, that reaver is good, but you'll struggle to beat entreat for a win from nowhere
I ran this at FNM last night, and though I placed 10 out of 19 people it was REALLY fun. I put in a couple card:Alchemist's Refuge just before heading out, and a card:Sphinx's Revelation and Isperia, Supreme Judge .
Round 1, I won 2-0, against U/W aggro. Tamiyo got her emblem out for me, with a Fog in hand and an Elocutor on the board, so Filibusters won me first game cleanly. Then for game 2 we were over 20 turns into it, and a crowd had gathered. I top-decked a Door to Nothingness with an card:Alchemist's Refuge out, held on it, he drew a land and at the end of his turn I flashed out the Door and activated it on my upkeep.
Round two: I won game 1 with Filibustering. But I made a critical mistake in game 2 against a very similar deck - Bant control, with Thragtusk /Restoration Angel win condition. I was at 1 life but had total control and 3 Filibuster counters on an Elocutor, and he had no creatures. I top-decked a Tamiyo and for some stupid reason tapped myself out to cast her. He flashed a Resto angel at the end of my turn and killed me with it. I had Safe Passage in my hand. sigh. He won game 3 as I got mana screwed.
Subsequently I had some bad games, and some really good games, but never recovered from that round 2 bungle. I won round 3, lost 4 & 5. I got some nice compliments on the deck, and I really enjoyed playing it. I definitely have to put in a stronger win condition, but I'll let the Elocutors hang around - probably a 2-of. Isperia only came out once but she ROCKED. Found myself having to use Supreme Verdict while an Elocutor was out with counters on him, there must be a lesson in there somewhere. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker killed me once - I found my defense against planeswalkers was lacking. But Nevermore - my new favorite sideboard card! Leave it out game 1 so they don't bring in enchantment killers, and then bring it in for the awesome proactive countering! It's the greatest way to get around all the counter-killers available these days.
@alxzy2: I considered Fog Bank , but as I find myself wiping the board frequently with Supreme Verdict and then usually Snapcaster Mage -ing it again a few turns later.... the bank would likely die soon after it came out. My opponents run a lot of creature removal, so I would also find myself using a Safe Passage or card:Faith's Shield on the bank when it should be saved for the Elocutors.
Though I respect elocuters a lot, I'd be fired if that were my job.
if you're having issues with bolas and other planeswalkers that you can't deal with, I would strongly suggest that you sideborad, or even mainboard pithing needles, In this format, it's your only friend, It's not your only friend, but it's a little glowing friend.
The Door to Nothingness caused a ruckus when it got flashed out, but alas I think maybe I have to be taking it out of this deck. It's fun, but not really powerful.
I would LOVE to see you win with Door to Nothingness. Sadly, it's not as viable in this deck as the Filibusters are. Put it in the sideboard, but keep it around in case you run into someone crazy enough to play Slaughter Games in a tournament- if they get your Elocutors, you've got a backup win con.
My friend, you need Negate . Seriously. Get Chromatic Lantern and Door into the Sideboard, as well as Fog, and use Sleep , Downpour and/or Downsize (Downsize is the clever version of Hysterical Blindness ,) and maybe Blustersquall if you'd like. Getting Green outta the deck entirely should streamline the overall functionality of the deck. I don't mean to be the heretic of the Magic world, but what is Snapcaster doing here? I don't think you need it. I'll trust your judgment on Tamiyo and Faith's Shield too, but I think you could take all that stuff out, put in the stuff I suggested, and add the CURSED Oblivion Ring . I think you'd have a stellar stall deck that goes far. Max out Feeling of Dread, by the way. Tapdown Lock might be the way to go with this build.
Now, if you're having trouble with Planeswalkers... Nicol Bolas? OBLIVION RING! If you're running 3-4 Detention Sphere and 4 Oblivion Ring, the likelihood that you'll lock down Bolas is pretty high. I was gonna suggest putting Detain creatures in your sideboard, but I'm not sure you'd need it. Overall, this looks like an obnoxious, repulsive deck to play against. That's what you want- if you're playing UW control, you should offend your opponent's sensibilities at some point. :P I hope this helps!
Play Rootborn Defenses before a board wiper if you have elocutors in play. It ups the required mana to 7, but maybe it's worth it, I don't know.
You must add the new Jace, Architect of Thought , because it's powerfull and slows down aggro. The mini-fact-or-fiction effect is quite strong, too. Seriously, just playtest it in TappedOut, you'll see it. Add just 2 of it, for now. You'll thank me later ;-)
You should also take out the door and the lanterns, and the faith's shield. You could add card:Druid's Deliverance if you insist on a fog direction, but I wouldn't : as you pointed out, TurboFog is not as strong as it could be.
Ring of Xathrid + Palisade Giant is cute, but to prevent it from dying on the turn you play it (by a simple Dreadbore , or even a basic massive attack), you need 6 (giant) + 1 (equip) + 2 (regen) = 9 mana open. If the opponent does not follows his dreadbore by a massive attack, in which case you would need 2 more regen mana open, upping the total to 11. Which is quite a lot. So don't do it. As a 6-drop, the giant is cute, but just sucks in constructed formats.
I agree with some of UlamogsGyre's suggestions : add a few Oblivion Ring . A few more counters would be good (not too much though, just 2 or 3) : Negate , Cancel , Essence Scatter , take your pick, depending on your meta.
Getting green out makes sense if you go out of fog's way, but I wouldn't play tap effects. Instead, you could add Terminus , for more board wipers. You might try Martial Law , too. It does nothing on the turn you tap out with it, unfortunately, but it can quickly become a nuisance if left unchecked, especially with more wipers. Maybe a few Unsummon ?
And if you like Isperia, Supreme Judge , go with it, it looks like a solid 6-drop. I didn't playtest it myself yet, but I like it.
Actually, you gave me quite a neat idea for a very similar "lockdown" deck... copying yours now ;-)
Okay folks, thanks for all the suggestions! I have assimilated that advice and performed some changes.
Moved the lanterns, the Door, and all green and the Fog s to the maybeboard so I don't forget them, but we're going to try a pure U/W split for some playtesting and see how it does. I will miss those Fogs though, but I think UlamogsGyre and w999 are onto something.
I added some Negate s, Oblivion Ring s, and Isperia, Supreme Judge into mainboard. I do have 3 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage in here - considering dropping one for my Jace, Architect of Thought as I agree with cosmo0 - I have one, but $40 is a lot drop on a second if I'm uncertain of it... anyone else have thoughts on the new jace?
Please post here any results from playtesting that you think might help the deck!
By all means, if you don't play with proxies, and you don't want to put 40$ worth of cards in your deck (especially since the price of the planeswalkers will most certainly drop a lot within a few weeks/months), don't put a second Jace if you don't have it. It's powerful, but maybe it doesn't fit in the deck, or maybe it doesn't fit your play style. Put in the one you already have, for now.
-1/-0 means you'll take less damage that turn, not none. Not super useful. The new Jace isn't great for this deck. Maybe one of him for his fact-or-fiction ability, but I think tapping down, exiling, and detaining creatures is the way to play it. I was also going to suggest Witchbane Orb for the sideboard, but I see you have that covered. And remember, as this has come up for me and sparked an argument, loss of life is not damage and has no bearing on card:Azor's Elocutors.
I have been playtesting this a LOT, and decided it is better with the green. Against creature decks it needs the green, and those lanterns provide necessary ramping. Jace has been good a couple times, but also not so good, and I think I will keep him out for now. Will update this with the green back in shortly.
Replaced the green, trying it again. Added the 2 card:Alchemist's Refuges that I played with earlier - it is pretty cool to flash out a Detention Sphere at the end of the other guy's turn.
This deck is getting a fair amount of interest, so I've updated it to what I am currently playing with in real life. It has too many cards, as I'm trying to decide what the weak points are. All help is appreciated!
BIRD HOUSE IN YOUR SOUL FOR SURE =3 in gate crash i will prob run a variation of this i just want to see what blue green multis we get from simic b4 i commit to my worst color matching in magic but like i said i love the idea and im glad your running it if you could help out your fellow TMBG lover check out my Rhox "Rocks" deck and give me some suggestions as it is a hard work in progress and i am on no budget for the most part so anything Green White is obtainable
Tappedout has this nice feature in the update section that allows you to hide old, irrelevant comments which allows people to help you with your current build easier.
On a different note I'd have to say this could be the better version of a filibuster deck that I've seen on this site.
i love the deck and the run of it! I totally agree that the green is definately better in it :) but i still dont see that you put [negate] or [oblivion ring] in there though?? And you have 64 cards in maindboard so you gotta let me know what you want to take out cause i love this deck!
Also, you could consider running a few card:Druid's Deliverance for extra fogging.