I was looking into the same general deck idea, had a few cards you didnt mention (centering around vigilance:
Engineered MightThis one is a bit too mana expensive but could be useful...maybe
Nature's WayCould act as pseudo removal if played right
Odric, Lunarch Marshal Kind of a pet card but works well here
April 13, 2017 2:39 a.m.
@thattallguy - Thank you for the suggestions and I wish you good luck, if you want to build a version of an exert deck. It might actually be one of the most interesting and syngery based combat mechanics, that exists.
Until you mentioned Odric, Lunarch Marshal i really did not recognized just how many keywords Lone Rider Flip, Glorybringer, Glory-Bound Initiate and Samut, Voice of Dissent bring to the table. He actually might fit inside the deck in the very empty four mana slot. Or as a supplement for a removed Champion of Rhonas.
I am kinda undecided on Arlinn Kord Flip. More haste and earlier than Samut, Voice of Dissent coupled with Vigilance might be strong. What kinda bugs me, is that I really only want just that +1 ability and to get to the other side and back takes ~2 turns. Still, repeatable vigilance with haste and buff is not bad either.
Nature's Way looks good and the trample might help to bunch some damage through and the removal of enemy creatures seems likely with high-power creatures like Combat Celebrant and Glory-Bound Initiate.
The only card I am completly unexcited by is Engineered Might. It is just so damn costly.
April 13, 2017 7:17 a.m.
I love it, +1! I made a deck similar to this but this is way better.
April 14, 2017 9:35 a.m.
Thank you very much. If you want you could link me your deck and we could work on it? Different approaches and ideas are always an improvement! :)
True, I definitly forgt Kiora, Master of the Depths. Her +1 ability would definitly serve the intended purpose to untap an exerted creature and would also provide more ramp. What really puts me off about her is the blue in her mana cost. That we are tri-color already makes me uneasy and that is only diffused by running Channeler Initiate and being a midrange deck, that can take its time with certain mana requirements. It definitly helps, that we only need green and white until turn two and not all three. Add a fourth color and the inconsistency might spike.
I appreciate your suggestion, because I did not think of it myself, but Arlinn Kord Flip sits in the exact spot Kiora, Master of the Depths would be in. Just that she is on color and more aggressive and also adds tokens as well as removal.
April 15, 2017 11:57 a.m.
I have not tested it as a four color deck, but to run four colors is just not a disrubtion this deck needs, if one of the best lines of play involves other colors than white until turn four (Glory-Bound Initiate + Always Watching ).
The best way to imagine this deck is being first in white and only adding red and green for added support. Samut, Voice of Dissent, Arlinn Kord Flip, Channeler Initiate and Glorybringer are strong, but were only added to enable the deck. The help to untap Glory-Bound Initiate, if there is no Always Watching , provide ramp or are beatsticks, that carry us through the lategame, when Glory-Bound Initiate starts to fall off. The need for consistent mechanical support basically dragged this deck into tri-color. Would it have been possible to only play white + x I wouldn't even look at a third color.
On the matter of fastlands vs. shadowlands: The former would be an auto-include, if I had necessary one-drops and a plan to be already aggressive in turn two. But I am not doing that and the Shadowlands are far better at scaling as the game progresses. This dec does not need untapped mana at turn 1, it needs it at the turns two, three and four. Eight Shadowlands get that done, Eight Fastlands don't. Hell, I am even thinking baout cutting the cycle-lands down to provide more basics.
April 15, 2017 12:42 p.m.
Devoted Crop-Mate could prove useful for recurring Lone Rider, Channeler Initiate and Glory-Bound Initiate
Ahn-Crop Champion, would work as a pseudo Always Watching
Khenra Charioteer, helps push damage through chump blockers
Bitterblade Warrior because deathtouch is always fun (works with crop-mate too)
Painted Bluffs, Is just useful in tri-color or more
Im sure most of these cards didnt go unnoticed but just in case i wanted to suggest them, (some of those arnt in the system yet)
April 15, 2017 4:32 p.m.
Devoted Crop-Mate might actually be a great deal and I will think about him. Will set him on the Maybe-Board.
Ahn-Crop Champion definnitly gets a spot in this deck with the rotation of BfZ and SoI, but right now he has no direct spot. Maybe I will put him inside the deck, if Arlinn Kord Flip is not up to snuff or Champion of Rhonas does not provide as much value as I want of him. The only cards he could cheat into play have haste either way and would hit the direct rounf after him.
Khenra Charioteer might actually be worth a spot and if it is just in the SB vs. decks that stall it out with small creatures. Definite addition to the Maybe-Board.
Bitterblade Warrior I am unsure about. He would seldomly get blocked, but on the defense he is just a 2/2. His advantage does not outweigh him just being a bear. Still Maybe-Board. Some people like it more aggressive.
I really do not like Painted Bluffs like cards. They do not add the mana you want and the ones you need make it so, that you are behind a turn. Evolving Wilds or another tapland might just serve me more. Thanks for the suggestion anyway. Tri-Color is always such a mess.
April 15, 2017 4:49 p.m.
Interesting deck ! But I think you are wrong on your rule about Champion of Rhonas , when you say to put Samut with his ability attacking. I link you officiel rules of exert :701.37. Exert
701.37a To exert a permanent, you choose to have it not untap during your next untap step.
701.37b A permanent can be exerted even if it's not tapped or has already been exerted in a turn. If you exert a permanent more than once before your next untap step, each effect causing it not to untap expires during the same untap step.
701.37c An object that isn't on the battlefield can't be exerted.
All cards in the Amonkhet set that let you exert a creature let you do so as you declare it as an attacking creature. You can't do so later in combat, and creatures put onto the battlefield attacking can't be exerted. Any abilities that trigger on exerting an attacking creature will resolve before blockers are declared.If a creature has a targeted triggered ability that triggers when you exert it, you can exert it even if there isn't a legal target for that triggered ability.Some cards have abilities that trigger whenever you exert any creature. These abilities trigger when you exert that creature or any other creature you control.You can't exert a creature unless an effect allows you to do so. Similar effects that "tap and freeze" a creature (such as that of Decision Paralysis) don't exert that creature.If an exerted creature is already untapped during your next untap step (most likely because it had vigilance or an effect untapped it), exert's effect preventing it from untapping expires without having done anything.If you gain control of another player's creature until end of turn and exert it, it will untap during that player's untap step.
- source : http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/amonkhet-release-notes-2017-04-14
I understand that is impossible in your attack phase to declare champion of rhonas attacker, triger ability, put Samut on battlefield then attack also with her. It result that this champion of rhonas is not really as good as that, in your actual decklist. Why not replace them ?
Another problem in your deck is Combat celebrant with Lone rider. All your non-creature spells synergise well with your pack, and your Lone rider. You have interest to fight each turn. But by triggering Combat celebrant you can not flip Lone rider for second attack phase. I think Combat cerebrant deserves a third spot, and Odric also.
You have no draws. 8 cards with cycling, 6 cards with aftermath are nice but you have many spells and not enough creatures when your gameplan is winning by creatures. Also with so few creatures it is easy for your opponent a minimum control to kill your creature with few thoughness and take control of game when you are waiting for another one. You have no Blossoming defense or Heroic intervention for example. So why not cut 1 always watching and 1 prepare to fight, at less, for more creatures or draw engine ?
April 16, 2017 11:34 a.m.
Battlefield Scavenger might help with the lack of card draw. It's also good to note that you don't have to exert him to reap the benefits of the draw either. ANY creature that you exert gets extra value from the card, and can act as a pseudo Smuggler's Copter in a way.
My suggestion would be to take out the 3x Lone Rider Flip and 1x Odric, Lunarch Marshal for 4x Scavengers. I'm just not sold on Odric in this deck. He just seems like a win-more in a 4-drop slot that you almost always would rather play Arlinn Kord Flip instead.
I think Insult // Injury is a rely good card in this deck, but I'm not sold on Prepare // Fight. There are better removal/burn spells in this meta, and the lifelink is kind of redundant now that we've removed Lone Rider. Shock, Magma Spray, Harnessed Lightning just to name a few.
Also, find room for Harsh Mentor because everyone else will. This card is going to be a staple in all decks that play red guaranteed.
April 16, 2017 1:14 p.m.
@Ragham - Thank you for taking the time to enlighten me. In this new light Champion of Rhonas does not look really that valueable and might even be a disadvantage, because Samut, Voice of Dissent and Glorybringer would be in play without attacking, but open for sorcery-speed removal. At this point I will remove the last two copies of him from the deck. Heroic Intervention and Blossoming Defense are on my watchlist and I will think about them for this deck.
@Vectro98 - Battlefield Scavenger might be worth a thought, but I kinda want the idea still going on, that all my 2cmc creatures have the potential to not just be 2/2. His filtering might be worth it though. I will look into addtional sources of carddraw. The idea to cut Lone Rider Flip and Odric, Lunarch Marshal is understandable and I will look into it. What I do not agree with is the removal of Prepare / Fight. The untap at instant speed as well as the lifelink are relevant to keep blockers open, exert useable and have enough sustain to reach into the mid- to lategame, that is the main focus of the deck. That there is a 'removal' - spell tagged on is just and added advantage. Shock is definitly a consideration, as is Harnessed Lightning. Harsh Mentor might be a good idea, especially against most established decks.
April 17, 2017 12:38 p.m.
Awesome deck! I've really enjoyed testing it! From what I've found, Combat Celebrant is too weak and only benefits if we are already winning. Lone Rider Flip is super sweet, I recommend him over replacing him with sylvan advocate. Samut, Voice of Dissent is crazy powerful, I wouldn't mind an additional one. I've also found the mana base to be slow and super wonky. Might be better without as many slow duals and some fast lands in there. All in all, sweet deck!
April 17, 2017 1:27 p.m.
Really love the deck! Gonna test some more, but from just looking at the updated list, I think Prepare / Fight is pretty weak, just because it only untaps one guy, where more Blessed Alliances can untap multiples. Also think that reducing the # of Always Watching s was a step in the wrong direction, because the +1/+1 was always welcome. Anyways, new version looks sweet and I will go try it out!
April 17, 2017 8:57 p.m.
So far, cycling duals are pissing me off, too slow against aggro, not fast enough to win against control. I think you are pushing them too hard. I really recommend fast lands from kaladesh.
April 17, 2017 9:35 p.m.
Would you have a problem with me linking to your deck in my Sideboard notes?
It might end up driving some extra traffic your way, but will also tell people how to Board against you.
April 18, 2017 5:03 a.m.
@LogicVoid - I definitly can see the advantages of Blessed Alliance. The problem is, that I need to pay four mana to get the desired effects. First to get Lone Rider Flip online and to get exerted creatures back up. Most of the time there will only be more than one exerted creature in the late game. Prepare / Fight is far better early, because it does lifegain and untaping at a more competetive cost. The figt spell is also very welcome. The only replacement I could imagine is: Nature's Way.
I also upped the number of Glorybringer and Always Watching again, because the vigilance, like you said, is important even, if it does not stack that well. Glorybringer is the just a disgusting four drop with removal tagged on.
@Argeaux - Do it, if you want; This site is all about knowledge! :)
April 18, 2017 5:52 a.m.
LordDerrien It definitely looks better, faster, and more efficient.
April 18, 2017 7:44 a.m.
Having trouble against blue/dimir/esper cycle control. Nothing to sideboard against them is very relevant, so maybe some Heroic Interventions.
April 18, 2017 8:34 a.m.
@LogicVoid - Jeez, so it seems like Cycle-Control will be a thing? Heroic Intervention is definitly something I will try to free up some slots for. 2-4 of them, or how many do we need? Prowling Serpopard is also a thing...
April 18, 2017 8:51 a.m.
Flash her in to let your Creatures block and/or kill your Opponent's Creatures.
Flash her in to protect your Creatures against a board wipe.
Kill one of your Creatures to make her board wipe, or deal the last 3 damage to your Opponent.
She is great against Control because she is also another body on the board that they have to deal with.
Her Vigilance is extremely relevant, as is her Flying.
April 18, 2017 9:05 a.m.
LordDerrien thinking about it now, Heroic Intervention isn't the best slot. I personally think the Sepropard would be best over Avacyn and Selfless just because getting creatures down is the toughest part.
April 18, 2017 10:36 a.m.
What about Honored Crop-Captain?Solid potential. No exert though
April 18, 2017 8:07 p.m.
Maybe a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker with Combat Celebrant for infinite combat steps and infinite exertions.