pie chart

EDH Generals by Tier

Commander / EDH*

pmonk

TierFour (210)

TierThree (151)

TierTwo (53)

Commander

TierFive (149)

TierOne (32)


Description

EDH Generals by Tier

Remember these are decks with the general acting as a focal point not just randomgoodstuff.deck

Tier 1 Over-Powered in Multi and/or Single player. When people sit down and see your general, they go for you first and encourage everyone else to do the same.

Tier 2 Great in mutli or single but fair

Tier 3 Kinda meh or narrow but decent enough to build around

Tier 4 not good, you're forcing a deck out of this one.

5 Copy Tier 5 I'd rather have a basic land as a general

Always looking for feedback, if you see a general you disagree with please say why and what tier it should be instead, I consider any feedback received.

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guessling says... #1

I think it's easier to give rankings like this for duel commander.

In multiplayer so much of it can come to player dynamics so that the deck itself (and especially the commander alone) are highly unreliable at predicting who will win.

For example, I have a good record with my Roon of the Hidden Realm deck, but it comes down to politics and if they don't go my way, I can't force a win unless the rest of the table allows me to build a ridiculous board state unchallenged. Multiplayer depends too much on the mix of commanders, and more importantly, the people at the table and their social dynamics

December 5, 2015 7:42 p.m.

thegigibeast says... #2

100% agree with you, guessling. Same thing for me with decks that are considered really great (usually in 1vs1), politics was the thing that make me win or loose.

So what do you guyz think? Should we redo the list more in a 1vs1 form or try to make it multiplayer?

December 5, 2015 8:50 p.m.

NarejED says... #3

I would say try to keep it multiplayer oriented. I admit that it's much more difficult to judge power in multiplayer, but if you base it more off of 1v1 matches, you run the risk of over-rating certain decks and under-rating others. For example, pure control can be incredibly oppressive in 1v1 environments, but its power is inversely proportionate to the number of players at the table. The opposite is true for certain decks. IE, Derevi Prison actually becomes stronger in multiplayer, because the main dynamic of the deck remains constant, but certain utility cards like Prophet of Kruphix, Consecrated Sphinx, and Rhystic Study become stronger as the table grows.

TLDR: It's easier to rate commanders in 1v1 matchups, but I feel it's worth the extra effort to rate based on multiplayer performance.

December 5, 2015 9:29 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #4

Also the overall interest in the format is in multi-player. 1v1 is not nearly as popular.

December 5, 2015 9:31 p.m.

guessling says... #5

I guess that one thing that can be rated that is independent of player dynamics is an explosive combo win requiring little or no board state. However, even pulling this off does entail convincing others go not go for you while you are relatively open and at least some people at the table know what you could do if allowed to do so again.

Comparing possible board states is not realistic if disruption and sweeping aren't factored in. Some board states can rebuild after a sweep (or endure a sweep) more easily than others.

I know that other online resources either specifically limit themselves for duel commander or give criterion for rating that references a commander's relevance in the different formats (such that a strong commander in 1v1 and multiplayer would rate better than one who only did really well in either/or).

December 5, 2015 9:42 p.m.

thegigibeast, I say that'd be a good idea. Multiplayer formats offer too many variables to place a general in a tier and have them consistently maintain that position.

Put Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, and Brago, King Eternal into the same game and there will never be one that dominates based on its build. The life of this format is in its politics, and that is where the skill of the player is measured.

I made a Reaper King deck that utilizes changelings and other cards that modify the abilities of the changelings to give us an insane board state. Played it against a Nahiri, the Lithomancer deck and an Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck at the same time and crushed them. However, 1v1, the format changes dramatically. Azami wiped the floor with both of us without a problem consistently when the threats offered by a second opponent were removed.

December 5, 2015 9:43 p.m.

thegigibeast says... #7

According to your comments, I will try to create a multiplayer list of generals by tier. I will still require your help, because I will for sure have difficulty to rank certain commanders. I will start as soon as possible and link my resource here. Thanks for support and help!

December 5, 2015 10:32 p.m.

kyuuri117 says... #8

Curious as to how Oona made it into the tier 5 list. Oona Combo is generally considered pretty good. Just need to make it black blue control, put a good amount of infinite mana generators into the deck, a bunch of tutors in the deck, and mill everyone out with the general, blue suns, or exsanguinate. Really pretty easy to kill a table with that.

December 5, 2015 10:38 p.m.

thegigibeast says... #9

Thats exactly the reason we are starting iver this resource: it has a few errors and we want a new, updated one.

December 5, 2015 10:42 p.m.

NarejED says... #10

Thanks, Gigi! I will hound your list mercilessly once you create it.

December 5, 2015 10:46 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #11

Just copy this deck, and tweek it from there. It will give citation to the original, and be really easy for you to put together. This list is wrong in places, but a very good launch pad into the idea.

December 5, 2015 11:25 p.m.

NarejED says... #12

@ Didgeridooda: Doesn't work unfortunately. Copying the deck undoes all of the formatting and leaves you with an unsorted list of 590 creatures and 5 Planeswalkers. Try it yourself.

December 6, 2015 1:34 a.m.

thegigibeast says... #13

That will be a lot of fun to mess with! Seriously, before starting, do you think the current tier descriptions are good enough? Or should we also modify them? Should we remove/add tiers?

December 6, 2015 4:45 a.m.

Didgeridooda says... #14

NarejED ahhh, that would have made it too easy. I believe you. I have just never tried.

December 6, 2015 9:18 a.m.

Didgeridooda says... #15

thegigibeast I don't know. I do like the current ones, but tier one to me might need a better description. Maybe if we were able to shuffle the list they would fit better.

December 6, 2015 9:25 a.m.

NecroPony says... #16

I think tier 5 and maybe 4 need rewording.

December 6, 2015 9:32 a.m.

NarejED says... #17

Yeah, I would rework to say the following:

  1. Overpowered Tier. These commanders can dominate games unless teamed up on and are immediately perceived as a threat by all who see them. Commanders in this catagory are capable of either outright winning or creating nearly unwinnable matches consistently by turn 4 if left unchecked. They're strong, fast, and incredibly resilient to hate.

  2. Strong Tier. Only slightly weaker than the decks in Tier 1, these commanders are still quite capable of holding their own in any match, though they usually have more problems with speed and / or consistency than the tier 1 commanders. They can usually close out matches or set up unbeatable board states by turn 5 in a vacuum.

  3. Average Tier. These commanders still do quite well in casual kitchen table matches, but they suffer from noticeable problems in higher levels of play. These decks rarely manage to win before turn 6, or can often be shut down by a single well-placed counterspell. They can still compete against tier 1 and 2 decks, but they require very favorable politics to win.

  4. Weak Tier. Commanders in this category, while still playable, suffer from one or more severe issues. They often they will be run in casual good-stuff decks, where the Commander has little or nothing to do with the deck, and only serves as a backup body if deck runs out of steam. These are the decks that often take 10 or more turns to win. When brought to competitive tables, they have to essentially be left completely alone in the corner to have any hope of winning.

  5. Unplayable Tier. Incredibly weak commanders that essentially serve as a placeholder for the command zone. Often these commanders are only used for their color identity. They bring nothing to the table on their own.

December 6, 2015 12:57 p.m.

guessling says... #18

@NarejED

I like this way of referencing the politics. I think it could be an interesting way of dividing generals into tiers of a sort.

I think the only things this might miss are:
the dependency on and resilience of board states (possibly implicit in the interaction with politics)
consistency (possibly implicit in the number of turns to win)

Also, some generals literally make a play on political dynamics like Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Marchesa, the Black Rose.

I think what you have is still interesting and the interaction with table politics might be the best defining feature of commander's in multiplayer. This is good enough to be interesting and meaningful without needing to be perfect.

December 6, 2015 1:16 p.m.

thegigibeast says... #19

NarejED I really like your descriptions, I think I will use them for my list if you don't mind!

December 6, 2015 6:26 p.m.

NarejED says... #20

Go for it! Feel free to edit it, too. I wrote that in a bit of a rush and didn't proof read it nearly as well as I should have.

December 6, 2015 8:15 p.m.

thegigibeast says... #21

Here is a link to my list! I have been able to copy it with the custom categories, so less boring work to do! Woot woot! Move your discussion and ideas of change over there for me to apply them!


[List] EDH Generals by Tier

Commander / EDH* thegigibeast

SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 0 VIEWS


December 7, 2015 8:36 a.m.

legioncult13 says... #22

Do look at the ban list and make an S tier. The thing is things like Zur the Enchanter and Erayo, Soratami Ascendant and Oloro, Ageless Ascetic are banned in competitive play. They belong in a separate tier so people know what to use in competitive. Also your tier one is terrible. Niv Mizzet and Melek are not that powerful. They are probably more like tier 3. Your tiers should also consider cost to play. Sure it is EDH but mana cost is very relavent. The higher costs like Jin Gitaxius will never be played because he simply costs too much and is a target like you say so will be stuck in the command zone costing 20 to cast again. Aka you will never get to use him making a deck around a high cost rather pointless. The point is the commander is a theme setter for the rest of your deck, not just a giant beat stick with a secondary effect that you will never be able to cast because everyone will make sure you never have the fun of casting it.

December 10, 2015 11:48 p.m.

Devilyouknow says... #23

You should be posting it on the new post thread not on this one..

December 11, 2015 12:47 a.m.

Gattison says... #24

eyes2sky. lookit

December 18, 2015 2:45 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #25

Gattison check out gigi's post a couple up. New one that is active was posted.

December 18, 2015 3:09 p.m.

queuecifer says... #26

Griselbrand is banned, why is he on the list at all?

December 30, 2015 12:06 a.m.

NarejED says... #27

Psst, queuecifer, check out the new list. It covers that, and fixes many of the other placement problems. New EDH Tier List

December 30, 2015 1:16 a.m.

I'd like to make an argument for Mishra. Sure, he's a build around me, but so are Scion and Jhoira. Mishra can be a force to be reckoned with when built right. Nether Void, Possibility Storm, and Praetor's Grasp can shut opponents down while Mishra uses his ability to make every artifact a 2 for 1, stealing people's artifacts while grabbing your own, and making Nether Void (and the like) one sided. Mishra can then use his convenient colors to put out Arcum Dagsson and assemble game-winning combos without being interrupted. Mishra also excels at being an exceptional stax general, locking down opponents by turn 3, and killing someone by turn 4-5 with his 1 on 1 storm variant.

December 31, 2015 8:19 p.m.

CollinJ21 says... #29

Am I the only one that thinks Selvala, Explorer Returned should be in teir 3. She has a cool mechanic that provides mana, life, and card draw. I won my first official edh contest with a Sevala deck. She's also fun for the table, because even though your gaining life and ramping, everyone is drawing cards. Pair her with a card that let's you untap and she provides alot of nice effects. I will say she is very lack luster in 1v1, but even then she is reliable card advantage.

January 19, 2016 10:53 p.m.

NarejED says... #30

Psst, CollinJ21. This is the outdated, archived list. There's a new version that's being kept up to date. If you want to recommend changes, better to do it there. [List] EDH Generals by Tier

January 19, 2016 11 p.m.

Shouldn't Gisela be in Tier one? That card is ridiculous to play against. All outgoing damage is doubled and all receiving damage is prevented by half rounded up. It can end a game in three attacks because of commander damage.

February 20, 2016 3:43 a.m.

NarejED says... #32

@commander_beef:

  1. She's an 7-drop, meaning that she rarely hits field before turn 3, with turn 5 being the average post mulligan rule.

  2. For her cost, her abilities aren't all that great. Commanders that cost that much should be winning the game the turn they hit the field (see Maelstrom Wanderer, Narset, Enlightened Master, etc). Instead, she's immensely slow, taking an average of 3 turns after casting to win, meaning she rarely goldfished wins before turn 8. In actual multiplayer matches, she rarely wins at all.

  3. She's in an awful color combination. Boros is actually the 3rd worst color archetype in EDH (4th if you cound ). It has very little access to several key components that make resilient decks.

She's rightfully placed in Tier 3 in the updated list: [List] EDH Generals by Tier

February 20, 2016 4:10 a.m.

Thundagawd says... #33

@@commander_beef

Gisela's a great card, but not a great commander. She costs 7 to drop in (Which is a lot), dies to just about any form of removal unless you tutored up something like Lightning Greaves beforehand, and frankly, her ability is quite basic and can easily be replicated to a certain extent with things like Wound Reflection, Gratuitous Violence, Curse of Bloodletting etc.

True Tier-1 are commanders that have downright overpowered abilities like what he says in the description. Something like Sharuum the Hegemon have several infinite combos built around them and often win the turn they come out, whereas something like Narset, Enlightened Master usually wins as soon as she attacks. Hell, I have a Narset, Enlightened Master EDH I've played against a few friends once. Got her out on Turn 3 with Haste thanks to Mass Hysteria and some mana rocks, threw on an Aqueous Form, swung at one guy and flipped Time Stretch, Howl of the Horde, Reverberate, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and I had a Twincast in my hand. Wound up killing everyone sitting at the table after the first swing, and now I'm forever banned from playing Narset when I'm with them :(

February 23, 2016 3:45 a.m.

Calculus_Lord says... #34

Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper is definitely not tier four. Its probably tier 2 at minimum tier 3

February 23, 2016 9:12 a.m.

Didgeridooda says... #35

Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper is max tier 3 I feel. He is ok. A lesser Talrand, but has access to white. He might be borderline 3-4. I think 4 is a fair assessment.

He costs a little much, and makes lands vulnerable when competitive metas are full of removal.

February 23, 2016 11:24 a.m.

Calculus_Lord says... #36

Didgeridooda the reason I say he is not tier 4 is because he has interesting interactions you can build combos with him with Contested War Zone + Mirrorweave + Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper this combo can come seemingly out of nowhere because the combo pieces assemble in your hand not on the battlefield. With access to cards like Weathered Wayfarer, Mystical Tutor, Merchant Scroll, Expedition Map, Tolaria West this combo is easily tutored out and its devastating when its utilized. Trade Routes itself is a powerful draw card engine and even more so when combined with Crucible of Worlds. Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper + View from Above is also a great card interaction that quickly becomes a problem. In addition to the board wipes that won't hit your board Tragic Arrogance, Planar Outburst, Planar Cleansing, Cyclonic Rift, Devastation Tide, Wash Out the array of counter spells available, removal spells available, spell recursion with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  Flip, Call to Mind, Snapcaster Mage, Relearn, Spelltwine cards like Bribery and become even bigger threats than they normally are. Yes you can play these cards with other blue and white decks but a lot of others I've seen like Brago, King Eternal cater to creatures more heavily. Additionally there is a second deck you can build with him based around cantrips and the combo Eye of the Storm + Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper + To Arms! Noyan Dar creates a powerful spell deck that is a very aggressive controller in one-on-one match up and begins as an unassuming deck that becomes a monster in multiplayer. I've come back in multiplayer matches from being completely mana starved the entire game to winning. My point is, Noyan Dar is not tier 4

February 23, 2016 12:27 p.m.

Calculus_Lord says... #37

Also I understand he is vulnerable to removal but how you play him is you dump counters on a single land making a large beater, unless you're about to use the Contested War Zone + Mirrorweave + Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper combo. If all your counters are on one land then that land getting removed is not that big of a deal. I've played a lot of games with him and I've never had an issue with my lands getting screwed up. Crucible of Worlds, Sacred Ground, and Terra Eternal are there to offer some protection on this front. I've found in playing him that these are sufficient in dealing with this issue

February 23, 2016 12:46 p.m.

I strongly disagree with Selvala at tier 5

March 23, 2016 6:54 p.m.

NarejED says... #39

Psst, wrong tier list. This one is irrelevant now. The Tier list being actively updated can be found over here. link

Selvala is rightly placed in Tier 2 over there.

March 24, 2016 12:39 a.m.

Nickles1992 says... #40

I run Dragonlord Ojutai in my playgroup and consistently do well against both an Animar deck and a Karador deck both of which are build rather well. Im not saying it should be tier one but at bare minimum it should be tier 3.

March 24, 2016 9:12 a.m.

NarejED says... #41

Sigh. No one seems able to listen on this thread. I may simply have to unsubscribe and leave the lost to wander.

March 24, 2016 11:13 a.m.

thegigibeast says... #42

Yep, well have to leave them here and keep the discussion moving on the real one. But as a last attempt, here is the link to the real discussion:


[List] EDH Generals by Tier

Commander / EDH* thegigibeast

SCORE: 99 | 67 COMMENTS | 30096 VIEWS | IN 85 FOLDERS


March 24, 2016 11:25 a.m.

soto250 says... #43

How is Yisan, the Wanderer Bard a tier 4? Strongly disagree with a deck built with the slightest amount of synergy Yisan is one of the strongest most consistent mono-green commanders. With him you literally never worry about getting the right creatures he tutors right for them grabbing answers for everything when well constructed.Not going to make the attempt to prove he is Tier 1 even though with my yisan deck I played and went either very evenly or beaten many of the Tier 1/2 Commanders on this list.Just asking for a reconsideration of Yisan. He is Fast tutors and consistent. Defiantly not on the same level as Zhang Fei, Fierce Warrior

March 24, 2016 1:43 p.m.

NarejED says... #44

Last attempt failed. Abort. Abort.

March 24, 2016 2:30 p.m.

Trtl says... #45

I do believe you missed Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim. Though I'm not sure where to put her, tier 3 maybe?

April 2, 2016 1 a.m.

darkark12 says... #46

Mizzix should probably be moved up to tier 2 (and possibly considered for tier 1) because of his ability to play control. He can play very much like Azami (in that he never needs to commit to the board) and with the right acceleration package can land on the table as early as turn 1 (consistently on 2). After he lands he can dictate EVERY play of the game. He dictates what resolves and what doesn't, all while holding up instant speed draw and digging for an additional turn effect. Once he finds an additional turn though, he goes to the races (I win by decking myself, then BSZ the opponents for X and then Beacon for another turn rinse and repeat). He can also play strait permission magic with counter spells board clears and draw, and eventually land himself on the board and then go to the races.

April 7, 2016 3:35 p.m.

ThoAlmighty says... #47

Why is Kokusho, the Evening Star in tier 2? If he goes back to the command zone, he doesn't get the "die" effect, because it requires it to actually go the graveyard. I can certainly see a mono-black reanimation with Kokusho at the helm, draining your opponents rapidly, but otherwise he doesn't seem to have much use. He does seem to be good in multiplayer, potentially gaining you 15 life each time though. Thoughts?

April 21, 2016 12:44 a.m.

@ThoAlmighty i agree. he isnt an amazing commander, he is an amazing part of the 99 though.

oops, wrong decklist.

use this one instead [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

April 21, 2016 12:48 a.m.

miracleHat says... #49

The point of Kokusho, the Evening Star as a general is to go turn 5-6 drain everybody 4 times with Wound Reflection out in play and win all of the sudden.

April 21, 2016 4:38 p.m.

Ghave, Guru of Spores right where he belongs in tier 1

May 30, 2016 10:08 p.m.

@NAOMonstrumcat post in here instead, as it is the active list [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

May 30, 2016 10:47 p.m.

mckaig513 says... #52

I don't understand Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker being labled as Tier 5. Maybe you have played a different play style, but in my experience if you make use of the mill to x lands spells in combination with Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinkers ability, while using good control spells (It's BU/BL, come on) then you become a handful in any edh game. Especially with green being a popular color in many commander decks to land ramp, it just makes the job of milling someone that much easier in the end. Just my 5 cents but he should be Tier 4 minimum, possily Tier 3.

June 17, 2016 4:27 p.m.

I don't get how Melek, Izzet Paragon is tier 1 and Mizzix of the Izmagnus is tier 3. Melek doesn't give you a discount and the instants and sorceries have to be topdecked. I also don't get why Prime Speaker Zegana is tier 1.

July 15, 2016 1:08 a.m.

ThoAlmighty says... #54

Please post on the more active decklist, DERPLINGSUPREME posted it overhead. But to answer your question (I run a Mizzix deck), Melek is just a lot easier to get cards with, especially with scrying large amounts and cards like Mystical Tutor and Personal Tutor to get exactly what you need. Mizzix is good, and a 2nd tier place might be better, but Melek deserves to stay where he is.

July 15, 2016 12:04 p.m.

TheMarcus says... #55

I hate to point out the fact that you are strait up dead wrong, Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is he 3rd most powerful deck in the format behind Hermit Druid combo, and Zur the Enchanter It makes me laugh that one of the top 5 commanders in the format was rated teir 4!Sorry but haha.Here is a link to one of the best and most consistent commander decks ever conceived! landdestruction.com/yisan-the-wanderer-bard-edh-deck/

July 17, 2016 2:14 a.m.

NarejED says... #56

@TheMarcus: read some of the more recent comments. This Tier list is 100% outdated and useless. The new, update to date tier list can be found here.


[List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

Commander / EDH* thegigibeast

SCORE: 176 | 1852 COMMENTS | 103741 VIEWS | IN 146 FOLDERS


If you want to make input about commander placements, I would advise posting there instead.

July 17, 2016 2:54 a.m.

TheMarcus says... #57

Thanks alot!

July 22, 2016 1:58 a.m.

TheMarcus says... #58

NarejED Please delete this decklist

July 22, 2016 2 a.m.

NarejED says... #59

Can't. It's not mine.

July 22, 2016 3:09 a.m.

Dr.Necro says... #60

I think Drana should be moved to Tier Three... She is an excellent Voltron commander and people don't expect her to do much... I could even argue she could be Teir Two!

August 9, 2016 2:55 a.m.

I'm not seeing tier 0.

August 13, 2016 6:29 p.m.