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This is what happens when goblins play with spells..
The concept of this deck is to get out Guttersnipe and enchant him with Curiosity , making it so whenever you cast an instant or a sorcery he deals 2 damage and you draw a card. From there fill the deck with lots of spells as well as Goblin Electromancer to make them quick and cheap, and ensuring Overload costs will be obtainable. Hellrider also pairs well with Curiosity , drawing cards for each creature that attacks. Use cheap goblins with Krenko's Command to send over towards the opponent when you have a curious Hellrider , giving you easy damage and card draws.
Thank you all very much for the fantastic feedback and all the +1's!
Electrickery is a card I think could easily find a home in this deck or at least the sideboard as a board clear against weenie decks like exalted.
Overall clever design, looking forward to playtesting with it.
I ended up dumping Mercurial Chemister to create a lower mana cost average and because I want to have lots more instants and sorceries for the curious Guttersnipe or Epic Experiment , but I may return him.. Maybe toss the Goblin Arsonist ?
I did have Electrickery in the deck at one point too, but opted for more spells that can hit creatures or players, in case I get to a point where I need to burn the player more.
I'd only ply Mercurial Chemister as a one off. You should be digging quick enough to either come across him or not need him at all. And like I said, I'd put Electrickery as a sideboard item to deal with quick aggro decks if needed. But then again... how often do we actually bother sideboarding. /chuckle.
Izzet Staticaster might work better than Mercurial Chemister both can target creatures, but the staticcaster has flash and haste so it can be a surprise move, Since he can ping multiple targets (think goblin tokens, spririt tokens, and several other tribal type creatures.)
Maybe even consider an Elixir of Immortality going up against a midrange or life gaining deck may cause you to mill yourself. Annihilating Fire is another potential burn spell, and your goblin should make it a little more affordable.
Through playtesting Index has proven to be quite good. With a Curiosity Guttersnipe on the field that one blue mana results in 2 damage, look at top 5 and re-arrange, then a card draw. I love using it to set consecutive cheap burn spells to either dish out with each card draw from the Curiosity or to setup a successful Epic Experiment , or to simply stack my next draw step to have a Temporal Mastery triggered as a miracle.
I personally don't like Epic Experiment , Index , Temporal Mastery , or Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius in this deck, I'd keep the curve lower and go more aggro. I'd like at least 22 lands, and 2 Desolate Lighthouse . I like the idea a lot.
Hi, I'm reacting to "With a Curiosity Guttersnipe on the field that one blue mana results in 2 damage, look at top 5 and re-arrange, then a card draw."
Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe it will work like that. Here is why:
I might be wrong here, but this is how I think it would actually go.
Yes, you will draw your card from Curiosity/Guttersnipe before Index resolves. However, if you follow that up with another spell, you will be able to draw the card you set up for yourself with the index....Index(gs deals 2, draw a card)-rearrange 5 cards.I would say thought scour is a better spell to run-gets you a card and possibly sets your opponent back a vital piece of their deck.
+1. This build looks brutal. I have a Delver/Burn deck that's somewhat similar and I'm looking forward to bringing in the Guttersnipes. I run Talrands, instead of Hellriders, which can mean an instant/socery will often net me a 2/2 flyer, a drawn card, and 2 damage to the player. I then rely on my burn to help clear the board of major threats. That said, I also play against a goblin token deck with Hellriders in it and with their haste and ability, i"m often easily surprised by a quick goblin based attack for game. If I'm not ready with a counter or instant removal, I'm sol.
I love how many different iterations I'm seeing of this r/u deck. Your build might not be the most flexible, but I wouldn't change a thing. It will be very interesting to see what r/u combos turn out to be the most effective.
Thank you very much Raxin, I appreciate the tips and the positive feedback! I am going to try to keep the deck as is for now and begin more heavy testing, I almost have the physical deck put together to play more competitive games than just using the playtester here.
I personally found that the electromancers didn't do as much work as they could, since most spells wont have more than a single colorless mana. Also, With such a high number of instants and sorceries in the deck, Delver of Secrets Flip is, unfortunately, the most efficient thing at the slot.
My deck if you wanna take a look. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/curious-guttersnipe/
I've decided to swap Unsummon out for Inaction Injunction . With an electromancer out they become the same mana cost, and although the injunction won't cause them to have to re-cast the creature, it still removes it as a threat for a turn while also giving a card draw. Any thoughts on this?
@aragoth Thank you! I did not consider +1/+1 counter creatures. I'll definitely keep Unsummon on the back burner if that becomes an issue.
@HeroofPie From what I understand, yes. Curiosity triggers each time a creature deals damage, and I think Hellrider technically deals damage each time a creature attacks, meaning if I swing with 3 measly goblin tokens, he hits three times for 1 damage each and I get three card draws. I will do a little more research to ensure I am accurate with this.
Thank you all for the +1's!
I read around the comments that you played Index , dealt 2 damage with Guttersnipe through Curiosity and draw a card of your choice, but the thing is, as Guttersnipe/Curiosity ability kicks in when you cast Index, and not when it resolves, you draw the card before rearranging the 5 cards. I haven't read if anyone has already told you this, so sorry if I'm repeating it :)
As for Curiosity Ruling: You draw one card each time the enchanted creature damages the opponent. This is not one card per point of damage.So Hellrider would make you draw a card for each attacking creature indeed. Hellrider is also good to take out Planeswalkers
Indeed I repeated what was said already, twince XD
I feel that in some playtest I'm having too much mana with no curiosity, meaning I would need to stack spells for when Curiosity arrives, but that gives me some inert turns. I would consider Epic Experiment , as many have mentioned, though I get you don't like it, and honestly, neither do I XD If I get to a way to accelerate the deck I'll be around soon :)
@Madnote: During the combat phase, the active player is attacking and is the attacking player. As the combat phase starts, the active player chooses one opponent. The chosen opponent is the defending player. Creatures can attack only the defending player or a planeswalker the defending player controls; they cant attack other creatures. During phases other than combat, there is no defending player. See rule 306.2.
So to kill a planeswalker you either attack a player or target him with damage, and you Redirect the damage to the Planeswalker. The Planeswalker then prevents that damage but removes a counter for each 1 dmg prevented. In this case, Hellrider is an excellent way to kill pesky Planeswalkers, as you will keep attacking the player while the Hellrider deals independent damage to the Planeswalker :)
@Absinthman: Yeah, sorry man, I sometimes skip some comments, my bad :P
Planeswalkers have loyalty. A planeswalker enters the battlefield with a number of loyalty counters on it equal to the number printed in its lower right corner. Activating one of its abilities may cause it to gain or lose loyalty counters. Damage dealt to a planeswalker causes that many loyalty counters to be removed from it. If it has no loyalty, it's put into its owner's graveyard as a state-based action.If your planeswalkers are being attacked, you can block the attackers as normal.If a creature that's attacking a planeswalker isn't blocked, it'll deal its combat damage to that planeswalker. Damage dealt to a planeswalker causes that many loyalty counters to be removed from it.If a source you control would deal noncombat damage to an opponent, you may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker that opponent controls instead. For example, although you can't target a planeswalker with Shock, you can target your opponent with Shock, and then as Shock resolves, choose to have Shock deal its 2 damage to one of your opponent's planeswalkers. (You can't split up that damage between different players and/or planeswalkers.) If you have Shock deal its damage to a planeswalker, two loyalty counters are removed from it.
Sorry for the Textwall :P
@Madnote: Basically yes. It works a little bit other way. When the combat phase starts, you choose which of your opponents becomes the defending player. So there is always a defending player during combat. Only then you choose whether you attack the player himself (or herself), or the planeswalker he or she controls. But either way, your opponent is considered a "defending player" game texts like Hellrider 's.
You start combat phase, and choose your opp (who has a PW) as defending player.You designate your attackers (ie. 3 attackers) in Declare Attackers Step, kicking Hellrider 's ability, meaning even if your attacking creatures get killed on the same Step, Hellrider will still do damage to the defending player.You redirect the damage of the defending player to the planeswalker he controls before he starts Declare Blockers Step.
What I think you Can't do, or at least I have no idea, is to designate the planeswalker as the defending player, making him the automatic target of hellriders ability. I think in this case, hellrider doesnt activates as a planeswalker is not a Defending Player, to be precise. Though I cant find any ruling about this
These are the rulings taken directly from "Gatherer" which is run by WotC.
1/22/2011 This damage is not combat damage and may be redirected to a planeswalker controlled by the defending player.
1/22/2011 If a creature you control attacks a planeswalker, the defending player is the controller of that planeswalker.
1/22/2011 In some multiplayer variants, creatures you control may attack multiple players and/or planeswalkers. For each attacking creature, Hellrider will deal damage to the corresponding defending player.
The first one pretty much sums up Hellrider s ability to put the proverbial smack down on a planeswalker.
Love the idea of the deck, I'm curious on how it does with these issues (still fairly new to magic, so sorry if there's something I'm missing here);
@FROZR2 Card draw hasn't been an issue, and I am playing Searing Spear . Yes the Electromancer doesn't help Pillar of Flame specifically, but that spell is fantastic, especially for cards like Gravecrawler . My spells are very low mana cost despite the electromancers for a couple reasons: in case I do not draw any electromancers I can still sling spells with ease, and the spells with overload will be easier to gain the overload affect with the electromancers on the field. I could possibly reduce the Goblin Electromancer down one, but they do tend to attract player hate so I like them around.
I have some:1. Mana issues, usually I have more than I would ever need2. If I don't draw Curiosity , I end up with no cards in the hand and lags the game, opening turns for the opponents.
Is there a way to address these two topics? Indeed, I think I would drop 3 or 4 red damage spells in favor of some card drawing. Inspiration and Think Twice are some examples of fast draw if you have those Goblin Electromancer that are otherwise not helping as much as they should.
I agree with the mana issue, usually its not too big of a problem when I get a Curiosity feeding my hand but I have had games where I am getting mana flooded. I'm going to drop down to 21 I think.
For those pointing out more creatures that go well in this deck, yes there are lots of awesome choices. The problem is, if I loaded a deck with creatures that have great synergy with spells, that would defeat the purpose of playing heavy on spells. This build could easily work with taking out Hellrider for Talrand, The Sky Summoner, etc. But these are the creatures I enjoy, and have worked very successfully for me. I'm not saying they are better, but that adding more creatures is not ideal.
ill start by saying i love this build. draw+ tiny burn spells is awesome... i just don't see you dealing with removal at all. i just finished my guttersnipe deck and i had a problem where i play him and he gets removed straight away. as for Unsummon vs Inaction Injunction its a difficult choice between decks draw theme and such a useful card. but i would have to go with unsummon only if ur going to have 4 otherwise use inaction (i dont even like inaction injunction in my azurious deck). in summary u get a +1 from me but look out for stompy monsters bigger than 5/5 and removal
how is tandem lookout better? it cost 3 times more mana and can be wiped out by one damage (elictrickery) the only upside is you have 2 sources that can do damage to get cards....... if the opponent has no blockers seeing that a 1/1 token would kill the lookout and remove guttersnipes draw for damage
It's better with Hellrider , because it's a body that can attack. It would be better to have a Tandem Lookout killed than an enchanted guy, so they don't get card advantage via removal. I feel like cost is the determining factor here though, and Curiosity is significantly cheaper.
Epic Experiment vs Thunderous Wrath . there are decks out there (G/W) that will heal faster than you burn and have tough creatures higher than 5 so may i suggest to go with epic experiment just because it gives you that option of casting many spells, ie 2 searing spears (although i admit thunderous wrath is more reliable).
yes, if it was worded as "hellrider does X damage were X is the number of creatures you attack with" it would damage deal once and trigger curiosity once, but since its worded that each creature causes hellrider to deal 1 damage its 3 different occurances of damage causing you to draw 3 cards
Goblin Electromancer isn't providing a lot of benefit here. Most of your instants and sorceries are pretty cheap to begin with.
I'd suggest swapping those out with things that are a bit more aggressive on the battlefield to put some pressure on your opponent and distract him/her from the Guttersnipe s.
After seeing this I'm thinking of trading two of my Hands of Binding for two Inaction Injunction . I think they'd offer a bit more stability than the Hands, Guttersnipes Cyphered with the Hands and enchanted with Curiosity can at best get me three cards and six damage before my opponent manages to torch the 'Snipe and send the Cyphered card into exile, the Hands by themselves only detain one creature.
Inaction Injunction on the other hand will get me a card and detain a creature all by it's lonesome, will still draw me three cards when used alongside the enchanted 'Snipe but will only deal four damage at best, still, not being exiled at the end of that combo has it's own benefits in a deck that runs Mystic Retrieval.
+1 from me.
I really like this a lot. My only issue is I am justifying a reason to run 4 electromancers since you mostly only need 1 out at a time. This may be a silly suggestion, but why not try fitting in 2xSleep . Not only will it proc all of your snipes, but it will allow for an all in attack thus giving you double use out of your Curiosity . Oh, and it will put a big speed bump in aggro. It should be pretty easy to cast with your electromancers, but wont work as well with Epic Experiment (although electromancers help again here). Another use for those guys might be Devil's Play . Otherwise, I might do -2xGoblin Electromancer for 2xNivix Cyclops
+1 though, I'd like to build something similar for myself.
Thank you very much for the suggestions paribecc, I do need to do some adjustments with the new Dragon's Maze release.
Although I agree having multiple Goblin Electromancer out at the same time is not entirely needed, they do come into use with bigger overload costs such as Mizzium Mortars . I may cut them down to 3, but will have to do some testing.
|Date added||8 months|
|Last updated||1 month|
|Legal formats||Commander / EDH, Extended, Legacy, Modern, Standard, Vintage|
|Top rank||#1 on 2012-10-08|