Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 100 | 101 COMMENTS | 18544 VIEWS | IN 37 FOLDERS
final tuning —Sept. 23, 2018
added much more draw and tutors, changed from forcefeed to suicide black (hubs), the deck is much faster and consistent now with all of the tutors and topdeck manipulation. now 100% competitive and optimized until a new addition gets printed!
also added Mission Briefing for more snapcaster effects plus surveil
First off, why Arcane Denial when Delay is just better?
Crucible of worlds seems like a bad card for this deck.
Creeping Tarpit seems very bad as well in this deck, I can't think of a single time when I would want to see it in this type of deck.
I also feel like I'd rather run By Force or Abrade over Vandalblast in this deck
June 20, 2018 9:11 a.m.
Heya! I've been looking to make my own Nekusar deck a bit more consistent and less splashy, and it's evidently similar to your own experience.
My only question was why no Leyline of the Void anymore? I saw in the comment history that you had removed it but couldn't find the explanation. I know we've got similar answers in Rakdos Charm or Bojuka Bog, but did you just find it too slow?
Thanks for the inspiration, though! Always nice to learn from someone who's been fighting the evil fight.
June 20, 2018 12:19 p.m.
essentially you are right. its not a bad card in your opening hand but 4 mana is pretty steep at this point of the build, its definitely still decent in a budget variant
i actually took bog out earlier this week to add fetch lands, in cedh i dont want many tap lands, tar pit is already a high risk card and i might cut it since it only really has 1 card interaction, but unless you're at the final stages of deckbuilding its worth a slot, rakdos charm usually does the job for me now that i have plenty of ways to tutor it, shuffle it back into my deck or cast it from graveyard
i also removed it when i took out some of the infinite combos in favor of more control and protection, previously it was paired with Helm of Obedience to exile an opponents library activating helm for x=1, which is a valid wincon in casual play
hope that answers your question!
June 20, 2018 12:47 p.m. Edited.
June 20, 2018 1:45 p.m.
alternatively you can run ritual ramp, im not a big fan cuz it only ramps for that turn/phase, but Seething Song and Cabal Ritual are also pretty strong! albiet just once, and not permanently (twice if you flashback)
June 20, 2018 2:45 p.m.
also trinket mage is just good. it tutors for sol ring and Sensei's Divining Top which is already good, it also tutors for all the moxen, mana crypt and lions eye, mana vault
but you usually only get 1 use out of it, if you run top and sol ring thats good enough to run tmage, it also tutors for Library of Leng if you run that
June 20, 2018 3:57 p.m.
Tarpit comes into play tapped, something generally considered bad in a competitive environment. The for you to get the cipher on tarpit it needs to be a creature which means not only do you need the tarpit in play, you need to activate it and cast that specific spell a total investment of at least 7 mana, 8 mana if you plan to swing with it that turn.
As a wheel deck you are already cycling through your deck, meaning that you will already have lands in hand most of the time. If you ran green it would make sense running crucible, you have access to ways that allow you to get more lands into play, but you don't so you're stuck on that one land a turn. In a deck like Nekusar it's mostly just cute.
Arcane Denial is ok when you plan on doing a windfall effect right after, so I can understand using it, Saying that Arcane Denial is one of the best counterspells in EDH though is being silly, most CEDH decks don't run Arcane Denial anymore because of the card advantage it gives to your opponents.
Abrade allows you to kill problem creatures such as most stax creatures as well as problem artifacts. By Force is a tougher one but it's stronger early game in CEDH then Vandalblast just because it's less mana intensive and can actually be snapcaster mage for multiple something that Vandalblast cannot.
June 21, 2018 3:22 a.m.
Also something to note, I did read the primer before commenting both times. I just wanted more insight into the choices as some of them seemed like they should have a second look into.
June 21, 2018 3:39 a.m.
a few things to note before I begin,
i just finished making this deck 100% competitive so im still new to cedh matchups as i dont have a lot of cEDH games except with a tymna/thrasios and blood pod, so there is still room for improvement of course. however, in regards to the point of arcane denial giving card advantage, it is true, but nekusar and wheels are forcefeed by nature, so although im trying to make nekusar as viable as possible he will never be tier 1 because of how many wheels are used
i think Luxury Suite would be a good replacement to tarpit, what would you recommend? cuz its a nice combo and all but tarpit doesnt have a lot of use outside whispering madness and 7 mana is quite steep
i find crucible to be super useful, as if i have multiple lands in my hand i can play one and wheel the rest to use in later turns, albiet not as good without Exploration effects, it has still been extremely useful for me. Temporal Mastery, Capture of Jingzhou and Time Warp, the latter which i recently cut out but remains a maybe, are pseudo-explorations as i get another untap, drae phase and land for turn. but if you really think its just a cute interaction, what would you replace it with for cedh?
i just feel vandalblast is too good, it can be a sorcery Smelt at its worst, and a 1 sided pseudoShatterstorm when overloaded. also, you actually overload it with flashback with snap/yawgwill or jace. its a board wipe that By Force would usually require a shitload of mana to match the amount of targets, and abrade is far from a board wipe, i would sooner add Evacuation as another creature wipe and/or Shattering Spree because although it needs red, each replicate has to be counterspelled individually, where by force would just get force of will'd, but i will keep your suggestions under consideration, thank you for your concern
June 21, 2018 5:12 p.m.
Unfortunately Snapcaster cannot Overload because they are both alternate casts so if you flashback you can't Overload and vice versa. Kess gets around that because she technically doesn't have flashback she just allows you to cast it. Same with Will.
I'd agree with Morphic Pool Morphic Pool or Luxury Suite.
At least from my experience I've found that whenever I've played I only usually see maybe 3 targets for artifact destruction that I care about most games. That being said your meta may be different.
I like Abrade just because it's highly flexible and most creatures have 3 or less toughness so it's rarely a dead card.
I do think you are a little low with interaction I'd have to look again when I'm not busy to give you specific suggestions for replacements.
June 21, 2018 10:43 p.m.
Whoa. I clicked on this deck fully expecting to scoff at Nekusar. But this is pretty damn cool. The kind of deck I'd like to play against.
June 24, 2018 4:51 a.m.
why not play glistening oil mainboard? With one wheel and one turn cycle its game over
June 26, 2018 2:59 p.m.
first off it only works with nekusar in this deck, so its very easily disrupted/removed in cedh, although if it's not interacted with it would definitely do well
secondly, it has been mainboard previously but people in my playgroup dont like infect so I've sided it out, in real cedh i would definitely include it!
June 26, 2018 9:41 p.m.
LMAO you took it out because people "dont like playing with it" that is the lamest thing ive ever heard. Tell your friends they are terrible people lol
June 28, 2018 5:18 p.m.
On another note, I really like the list here, the extra turn thing surprised me, but if it works, it works! I'll toss you a +1 for the unique take!
Spellseeker didn't make your cut? I saw it in the maybeboard, but since I didn't see you run it, I assume you have some reasons for that, I'd love to hear them!
Other than that, I see you don't run Laboratory Maniac (but have it in the sideboard), yet run Tainted Pact in the main deck, I know it works as a tutor, but you know, Laboratory Maniac + Tainted Pact/Demonic Consultation is a lot of fun. I see you run Entomb to dig out Kozilek, Butcher of Truth to reshuffle your yard in, which is clever, but running a reanimation package with Reanimate/Animate Dead/Buried Alive might not be the worst idea, considering how well I have found Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur to be with the discard synergies you run.
July 20, 2018 9:33 a.m.
yes exactly. i play with my friends in edh mostly so unless i play in a full cedh pod do i use some of the sideboard
Spellseeker is certainly strong, but my experience with Trinket Mage has shown that i almost always only get one cast of the creature per game,whereas being able to recast black tutors 5 times each per game via Timetwister effects means that seeker is just not good enough, not to mention it doesnt fetch the important spells (wheels and extra turns) where trinket mage fetches top, sol ring, moxen, and Lion's Eye Diamond
Entombs best usage in here is certainly kozilek, however in this deck its just another Intuition effect. i can use it to put cards like Memory in the graveyard or entomb spells to recast with Kess, Dissident Mage or snap/will
honestly ive heard about the reanimate package in nekusar from a few people, with Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur as the centerpiece, but jin is usually a dead card without reanimation due to its cmc
also, im not sure what i would cut for those 3 spells as well as Necromancy, but they are under consideration
i used to run labman in a much older build of this deck that had more of a group mill strategy, but without infinite draw or mill combos its very hard for me to deck myself, especially because this deck runs a plethora of Timetwister effects
July 20, 2018 4:41 p.m.
Perfectly fine answers, I just wanted to hear them, thanks for the reply man!
July 20, 2018 4:44 p.m.
You win with Megrim, Mindcrank and Nekusar or Nekusar infect draw 10. The Megrim would probly be an easier set up for CEDH, dont forget your important CEDH counters to make sure you get what you want off
July 20, 2018 8:56 p.m.
Geo963, what are the staple counters/black spells for cedh? this deck was originally casual and then turned into an investment and primer. and ive tuned it quite well, but i probably could trim for more staple cedh cards
i want to continue with testing my Chains of Mephistopheles + Anvil of Bogardan + Necropotence combo for a while, but it usually seems to be too much setup and chains can totally screw you when you cast it wrong, totally screws up the whole megrim/Waste Not+ Windfall + nekusar spike damage
im also debating running the best of the 2 mana Fork spells for wheels, but in cedh i think fork is mostly just cute
July 21, 2018 11:35 a.m.
Black Staples in cEDH: Dismember, Night's Whisper, Dark Ritual, Fatal Push, Cabal Ritual, Ad Nauseam, Dark Confidant, Toxic Deluge, Leyline of the Void, Necropotence, Reanimate, Animate Dead, Necromancy, Entomb, Buried Alive, Rain of Filth, Bubbling Muck, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, Chains of Mephistopheles, Nether Void, The Abyss, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
July 21, 2018 12:08 p.m.
i have everything but grim tutor, abyss and nether void, mainly cuz money. but what would i cut? i also have a lot of maybeboard stuff like Impulse
lying around i cant find a place for
July 21, 2018 10:57 p.m. Edited.
If you’re looking for a card to cut for another card in your maybeboard. I think Commit seems a little too cute and too expensive cmc wise for cEDH.
July 26, 2018 7:48 a.m.
Personally, Muddle the Mixture seems like a great card in a deck planning on casting cards again from the grave. Maybe transmute for something and then you have a counterspell just sitting in your yard waiting to be used again. That’s what I recommend adding. Also, why Talisman of Indulgence over Rakdos Signet?