Maybeboard


Description

I'm new to commander, but would like to try the format. I'm pretty sure I want to play BUG since I am a UB player at heart and green just seems fun in EDH. However, commander is also expensive (looking at you Jace, the Mind Sculptor ), so I'd like to do this on a bit of a budget. Any advice is much appreciated.

Quick primer:

This is a Sultai combo-control deck with a strong flicker theme. It aims to ramp early, control the board with powerful ETB effects, then abuse those ETB effects with repeated flickering until I can assemble an infinite mana combo and win.

There are 3 infinite combos:

Once I have infinite mana, I can activate Tasigur, the Golden Fang infinite times to put my entire deck and graveyard in my hand. Then I can use Gray Merchant of Asphodel + blinking to kill everyone at the table.


For a turn 3 kill with Dispel backup:

T1: Forest. Cast Birds of Paradise

T2: Island. Tap the lands and and BOP to enchant the Island with Overgrowth .

T3: Swamp. Cast Sol Ring with the Swamp. Float 6 mana (UGGG2) with the lands and Sol Ring. Use all but a G to cast Peregrine Drake. Untap the lands with G still floating. Tap your lands to add UGGGB to your mana pool, so your mana pool now has UGGGGB floating. Use UGG to cast Ghostly Flicker with GGB still floating. Blink Peregrine Drake and Forest. When Peregrine Drake enters the battlefield, you can tap the now untapped Forest to float G in response to its ETB trigger, then untap all 3 lands with GGGB floating. Now cast Eternal Witness using GGG, so you have B floating. Get back Ghostly Flicker. Now tap your lands lands for UGGGB so you have UGGGBB floating. Cast flicker to blink Eternal Witness and Drake. Drake untaps your lands and Eternal Witness puts Ghostly Flicker back in your hand. Tap your lands, cast Flicker, blink Witness and Drake, untap and put Flicker back in your hand, then repeat until you have infinite G and B mana floating. Cast Tasigur, the Golden Fang and add your deck and graveyard to your hand. In this process you'll get Search for Tomorrow and Fertile Ground. Use either (or both) to either get an Island or enchant Island again so you can net U mana with the blink combo. Finally, cast and then blink Gray Merchant of Asphodel to kill everyone at the table.

At any point in turn 3, you have an untapped Birds of Paradise, so you can make a U mana for Dispel.


If you play Cloud of Faeries there's a possible turn 2 kill:

T1: Island, cast Sol Ring.

T2: Forest, tap Sol Ring and Forest to enchant Island with Overgrowth . Tap Island to cast Cloud of Faeries with G floating. Untap your lands. Tap to have UGGGG. Use GG to enchant Island with Fertile Ground (or cast Search for Tomorrow to find a swamp). Cast Ghostly Flicker, then Eternal Witness, then combo off and win.

Updates

Comments

scaesura says... #1

You probably don't need Storm Crow. Opportunity is also just a bit costly for my liking (for that matter, you may have too many big draw spells - more efficient ones are often better in EDH, I've found). I'm skeptical of Ghostly Flicker as well - I see there are some ETB cards you might like to abuse but only having the one card to do that with is a bit of a waste honestly.

April 10, 2016 5:50 p.m.

Storm Crow is just for some fun in my play group. You're probably right about Opportunity, but it's one of the cards in this deck I own, so I'll cut one of the big draws, but probably not that one. You're likely right about Ghostly Flicker too.

Are there any good repeatable Ghostly Flicker-type cards?

Thanks!

April 10, 2016 5:58 p.m.

scaesura says... #3

Treasure Cruise might be a good choice to cut instead of Opportunity in that case. It's costly and slow. AEthersnipe is also pretty costly (though granted, I'm sure you'd cast it for evoke usually). If you have Reality Shift that could be a good replacement for that.

On flicker effects, there aren't many... There's Eerie Interlude and Ghostway but those are both W; the U ones are pretty much all limited. Brago, King Eternal is the best for flickering if you like that mechanic, but has the same problem being UW. That said, he can be built fairly cheaply (and still be quite competitive, depending how you build it/what you have on hand).

April 10, 2016 6:07 p.m.

Lokotor says... #4

cut Brainspoil and Villainous Wealth if you can get some other tutor rather than having so many transmute effects i think you'll be better off.

April 10, 2016 6:22 p.m.

Villainous Wealth is to have an easy way to kill someone if I can get infinite mana, but I can use Blue Sun's Zenith + a couple of cantrips instead.

I can cut AEthersnipe. I think I'd prefer to cut Fact or Fiction than Opportunity or Treasure Cruise since I don't own any, although to be honest, I could probably cut all 3 and be just fine.

I think I should be running more counterspells since they tend to be cheaper in mana and a good way to defend my stuff.

Thanks!

April 10, 2016 6:50 p.m.

Okay. Looks interesting. I'm liking it.

First issue: Only 5 ramp spells. Ramp is the best thing you can do in EDH (besides winning, and maybe drawing cards). 10 is probably the minimum number of ramp spells.

I'm not a huge fan of the Shipbreaker myself. If you need a big beefer, I'd say go with Terastodon.

Also, you might want to look at the "I call her Vera" sidisi combo deck for some combo ideas, and listen to The Command Zone podcast, by CommandCast. Its really helpful and informative.

Oh, and Ghostly Flicker + Peregrine Drake + Eternal Witness is a combo

April 10, 2016 10:05 p.m.

SwaggyMcSwagglepants looks like that combo's going in the deck. I didn't notice it before; thanks for pointing it out. I wish I could afford Palinchron, but meh.

Thanks for the other advice too. I just wish Exploration and Burgeoning were cheaper since they're the best ramp cards for this deck. I do agree this needs more ramp though. I think I prefer cards that add lands to the battlefield over artifact ramp, so perhaps I should add Kodama's Reach and Cultivate to this deck.

The one thing I can't decide on is if I want this deck to be purely combo or if I want to give it a beatdown plan as well. If I go combo-only, then I could cut some of my creatures (aetherling, shipbreaker, prog sphinx, and vizier), but then if I can't find my combo pieces or if they get exiled or if my combo get stopped otherwise, then I just lose. In a budget deck, I can't afford the usual insurance suite that makes the deck much more controlling. However, running other creatures dilutes the combo.

Another thing I can't decide on is spot removal. Aren't boardwipes just better in EDH? Or am I unbelievably wrong?

I also don't know what to cut to get this deck down to 100 cards.

April 10, 2016 10:28 p.m.

scaesura says... #8

On the removal front, you definitely want a mix of sweepers and spot removal in EDH. It depends on the goal of the deck and such as well, but generally 2-4 board wipes is usually enough that you have a decent shot at drawing one when you need it to reset the board state. Generally, it's also advisable to try to have board wipes that are one-sided as well. So, since you're playing blue, play Cyclonic Rift! There's nothing more fun than overloading that at the end of the turn before you play. Or after poor sod taps out and tries to swing with lots of stuff. I know there's a couple good sweepers in black too but I'm not really much of a black or green player, so I can't help as much there.

Spot removal is more useful just for that, to keep the game in balance if someone plays something that's a huge threat. Or if a few people have big guys, you can make it political too. Reality Shift is stellar, and with spot removal you can also put in ways to respond to artifacts and enchantments as well (especially since you're playing green). Naturalize, for instance.

April 11, 2016 10:05 a.m.

scaesura says... #9

Also! spot removal is usually cheaper, and if you have a handful of good spot removal answers, it lessens the need to have a lot of sweepers without slowing you down by also resetting your board. You just get rid of the biggest threat and keep going!

April 11, 2016 10:07 a.m.

Makes sense. Thanks! I'll add a Golgari Charm too since that gives me enchantment and small token hate, as well as protection for my own combo against spot removal. I already own Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, Murderous Cut, and Far / Away, so those are easy includes.

Cyclonic Rift is expensive; is it worth it? I suppose I can start without it then get it later when I get more trades.

On a budget, it feels like it'll be hard to protect my combo in a multiplayer EDH game, especially because I don't have Tooth and Nail, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, or other stuff that can help protect me from countermagic or removal. I know I have countermagic of my own, but that only does so much, especially because when I try to go off, everyone at the table is going to try and stop me.

April 11, 2016 11:02 a.m.

scaesura says... #11

Cyclonic Rift is more than worth it. I'm of a mind that it should go in every blue EDH deck honestly. Mid to late game it's amazing. You could use it on your turn to clear the way to finish, or say an opponent is getting ready to swing for lethal, since it's instant speed you can stop that too. Also, it's the most one-sided sweeper I know of I think - it affects only your opponents, not you. And it's ALL non-land permanents. If you time it right it can work as permanent removal if an opponent doesn't have a Reliquary Tower. I don't know that it's the best board-wipe, but it's up there among the best.

April 11, 2016 11:19 a.m.

Yeah I figured it would be that good. Guess I'll throw it in and get it when I can.

Any help on what to cut? I need to cut 11 cards after adding Rift and have no idea what's worth it and what should go.

Thanks for all your help.

April 11, 2016 11:22 a.m.

scaesura says... #13

Of course! But hmm. I'd say first, swap Murderous Cut for Hero's Downfall.

Then drop... Dispel, Forbidden Alchemy, Thought Scour, Far / Away, Brainspoil, Painful Truths, Alchemist's Refuge (or whichever utility land is getting you the least value), Dictate of Karametra and Dictate of Kruphix (especially since you have lots of draw spells), Engineered Explosives... One more after that too, maybe a draw spell, if there's a slower/less efficient one? I dunno though really - cutting is tough!

April 11, 2016 12:02 p.m.

Hero's Downfall is $1.72 that I don't have. If I get blown out by JTMS, then I deserved to get blown out.

I agree that Dispel can go.

Forbidden Alchemy is amazing with Tasigur as I can cast it from the graveyard, but it's a lot of mana and doesn't build any card advantage, so I'll cut it.

Thought Scour is free fuel for an early Tasigur. I actually probably should be playing Mental Note in here as a second copy. However, I suppose the goal of this deck isn't to get an early tasigur, but instead ramp and control, so I guess I can cut scour.

I'd really like to keep Engineered Explosives in here.

Without Palinchron, I guess Dictate of Karametra is subpar.

Thanks!

April 11, 2016 12:28 p.m.

Is Whip of Erebos good enough? Seems fine on the 'I'm not comboing but instead am going to try and beat you down' plan, but in this deck that's not a great plan.

I think Sidisi, Brood Tyrant is fine since comboing it with Deadeye Navigator turns into a lot of delve fuel, a lot of zombies, and a lot of inevitability when I start flashing stuff back.

Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet + a board wipe means I get a lot of dudes and I can prevent graveyard reanimation shenanigans, so it seems okay.

Is Prognostic Sphinx worth it?

Should I even be running creatures with a beatdown plan? I like the idea of having a gameplan when not comboing since on a budget, I highly doubt I'll be able to combo off consistently, however, it does dilute the deck and they are dead cards if I do try and go for the combo.

April 11, 2016 1:13 p.m.

scaesura says... #16

Hmm when you put it that way I think the Whip could be cut, as could Prognostic Sphinx. If you have to ask it probably isn't, especially if it doesn't serve another purpose in the deck (although it does fly and it does discard stuff to fuel Tasigur?). It seems like you're really honing in on what you want the deck to do!

April 11, 2016 2:10 p.m.

You are definitely right about the boardwipe over spot removal. I'd recommend Sultai Charm as basically all of your spot removal, since it also has 2 other (and frankly better) modes.

For getting lands out, I like creatures like Sakura-Tribe Elder and Burnished Hart. They can block and ramp, which is always good. Also, Market Festival plus cards like Krosan Restorer, Fatestitcher, and Kiora's Follower is really really really good.

April 11, 2016 6:27 p.m.

Also, only use combo and don't beat down. Beatdoen doesn't help in edh. You will usually have not enough creatures to get past blockers, and in addition, you won't be beating down one opponent: you're beating down 3+, each starting at 40 life! Replace facebeaters with blockers. If you can block your opponents dudes, then you can live long enough to combo off and instantly win the game.

Also, I really like Buried Alive and Victimize in combination. For 8 mana, you can instantly get infinite, activate Tasigur a jillion times, and mill yourself. At that point, I like using dread return to get back a lab maniac, then get back a Masked Admirers and deck myself and win.

But I play sidisi and not tasigur, so it's probably not as reliable in this list :3

April 11, 2016 6:35 p.m.

Sorry it took awhile to respond. I've been having some lag issues on this site.

My wincon in this deck is I deck myself with Tasigur, then use Blue Sun's Zenith to deck my opponents. If they try to counter or redirect my BSZ, then I can my own countermagic to counter their counter with my infinite mana. Once I go infinite, I don't think there is any way for them to stop BSZ since with infinite mana and a Tasigur, I have infinite counterspells.

Victimize sounds good; that's going in the deck. Buried Alive is expensive and this isn't really a reanimator deck, so I don't think I'll play that. I could rebuild the deck with Thought Scour-like cards and reanimation, which would probably be easier on a budget than tutoring, but it's also vulnerable to hate and likely better in a Sidisi shell than Tasigur. Also, I just really like tutors.

What I'm learning is I need to narrow down what I want to do with this deck; doing too many things is a recipe for disaster.

I'll take out all potential beaters like AEtherling. My other creatures have pretty useful utility (Kalitas + boardwipe exiles their stuff and gets me a lot of blockers and Sidisi is great Tasigur support), but maybe they don't belong.

I'll cut back on spot removal and add a few more cheap counterspells (add Dispel back in) to help protect the combo.

Should I cut my expensive counterspells like Dismiss? Drawing a card is nice, but the low efficiency in a combo deck seems subpar. I think Countersquall can go as well.

I think this deck needs more quality and speed of ramp. I wish Exploration, Burgeoning, and Carpet of Flowers were cheaper since they're the best opening ramp spells around. Oracle of Mul Daya is depressingly good as well. Burnished Hart looks quite good, so I'll add that. Maybe I'll switch my ramp over to a land untap shell since it seems decent with cards like Temple of the False God.

I'm going to sort this deck in custom categories to help organize my thoughts. Thanks for the help everyone!

April 11, 2016 8:10 p.m.

I've been goldfishing this deck quite a bit recently and am learning where it needs to go.

To start, value engines such as Baleful Strix + Quickling or Palace Siege + Burnished Hart are extremely strong. I've found that the most explosive plays in this deck are when I can ramp the hardest with a lot of high-value plays.

Additionally, the fastest plays are when I can make plays in my first 3 turns to start ramping.

Because of that, I'm going to add more cheap ramp to the deck. Things like Farseek and similar 2 mana ramp effects will help the deck a lot. I also think I want to increase the ramp spell count to at least 15, which would allow me to cut 1-2 nonbasic lands. I'll probably have to suck it up and buy a Solemn Simulacrum since it would help the deck a lot. I think I can cut some of the 3 mana ramp spells since by turn 3 I have a lot more plays to make.

I've also added Thought Scour and Mental Note back into the deck for earlier Threshold and and faster Tasigur plays.

Basically overall, a lower curve and more ramp should help the deck. I still need help cutting stuff though.... probably should start with some of the redundant tutors like Dimir House Guard.

April 12, 2016 4:12 p.m.

What's better? Running a Signet or running a card like Farseek? I'm leaning towards the signets since I sometimes run out of basic lands, but at the same time the signets are limited in what colors they can produce.

April 12, 2016 4:26 p.m.

So, unless you're dropping 8 bucks for a Concordent Crossroads, Deadeye and Krosan doesn't work, since Summoning Sickness.

I cried when I realized that too.

Personally, I'm in the Farseek/Nature's Lore camp. Lore also gets shocks, I believe.Less vulnerable to Cyclonic Rift/Bane of Progress,etc.

Looks solid! Remember, you don't always need the best cards for edh. It just needs to be fun! That's all. Unless you're like epoch and do competitive edh.

April 12, 2016 6:25 p.m.

Lol. So perhaps using Epoch's deck as a model for this deck is a bad idea? Cuz that's sorta what I've been doing XD.

Right now I just want the deck to be consistent and at least feasible to combo off. I don't want to win every game (if my lgs playgroup turns out to be pretty casual) because that would be boring for my opponents, but I also don't want to get curb-stomped regularly.

I'll cut Solemn Simulacrum then because he's expensive. I must say I do like the higher ramp version of the deck. With Tasigur, I can never really ramp too much, since extra mana just turns into more cards in my hand and more politics.

Summoning sickness...... uggh that's annoying. I'll remove that from the combo sections. It was such a cool combo too.

April 12, 2016 7:46 p.m.

A really cheap and funny way to get infinite mana is Illusionist's Bracers + Tidewater Minion

April 13, 2016 11:13 a.m.

That is a hilarious way to win. However, Bracers + my other untap creatures doesn't work since they specify lands or cannot target themselves, which is unfortunate. I don't think it's quite efficient enough to be worthwhile.

April 13, 2016 1:16 p.m.

Hmmm yeah maybe Deadeye Navigator + High Tide and Cloud of Faeries / Peregrine Drake. All you need is a likely chance of having an island.

April 13, 2016 1:26 p.m.

Hmmm. I think instead of High Tide, it might be better to play ramp effects like Market Festival since I don't have the 3-3-9 split or other ways to get a lot of land types on the battlefield. I like the idea of using Cloud of Faeries, and by enchanting lands so that they add more mana to their mana pool than normal.

I already can go infinite with Deadeye Navigator + Cloud of Faeries + Temple of the False God, but adding a few more ways to combo (so a few more ways to get more mana off of a land) would be helpful. Utopia Sprawl would be the best, but it's expensive. Cloud of Faeries also has nice utility if I need a certain card immediately with Lim-Dul's Vault because I can cast Vault, put the card I need on top, then cycle COF. The cycling is also good to add a card to the yard in the early turns.

April 13, 2016 4:14 p.m.

Yeah, the only problem is Temple of the False God gives colorless so i would suggest something like Simic Growth Chamber

April 13, 2016 4:53 p.m.

After making infinite colorless mana I can blink COF for 1U then untap a U-land and another land then float a mana from the other land, then repeat. So with infinite colorless I can make infinite colored mana.

Bounce lands... brilliant. that's going in the deck when I get home and am not on mobile.

April 13, 2016 5:12 p.m.

Lilbrudder says... #30

If you want more combo facilitators on a budget might I suggest Displace and Archaeomancer?

July 14, 2016 10:31 p.m.

I like displace a lot! I'll add that in for sure. Archaeomancer will probably make it in too, but I'm less sure. Thanks!

July 14, 2016 10:57 p.m.

TheDevicer

Glad you're interested! The maybeboard is the cards I'm planning on swapping in for more casual games. I chose these because I have them on hand, with the exceptions of Ashiok, grave titan, and Mulldrifter. I also have Psychic Intrusion and Shipbreaker Kraken, but they seemed too jank. I'll probably add Steel Hellkite since I like its effect a lot. Anything else I need? Anything that isn't worth it? How many should I be running?

Here's what I plan on cutting when I switch over: Cloud of Faeries, Peregrine Drake, Nature's Claim, Spell Pierce, Dispel, Negate, Mystic Remora, Voyaging Satyr, Rampant Growth, Farseek, Diabolic Tutor, and Drift of Phantasms.

August 4, 2016 11:38 a.m.

TheDevicer says... #33

I'd consider Animate Dead. It's pretty cheap and has a fun effect. Notion Thief can be brutal if people in your meta draw lots of cards. Avenger of Zendikar is really fun and can take over games by himself. Prime Speaker Zegana is fun if people let you have creatures out. Trygon Predator is a nice little flyer that helps keep permanents in check. Trygon Predator is really annoying to deal with if you're playing a heavy creature deck. Sphinx Ambassador is a beautiful meme.

All in all, there's a million good stuff cards you could run. I suggest you take the more competitive and highly reactive cards out and substitute in creatures on somewhat of a curve. As long as you don't go past 3.0, you should be fine in casual. As for improving the deck in competitive play, there's always money. Well, that and quite a few other things.

August 4, 2016 6:39 p.m.

endersblade says... #34

Rite of Replication kicked + Eternal Witness - copy the witness. Rite hits the yard. Tokens come in. Get back Rite and 4 other cards. Repeat as desired.

October 19, 2016 7:34 p.m.

abby315 says... #35

Burgeoning was reprinted recently and should probably be inexpensive enough to pick up for the deck. JSYK. :)

You should also really look into getting a Tasipurr playmat ;)

November 28, 2016 11:03 p.m.

cyborgcat says... #36

im sorry, but you deserve way more upvotes

September 2, 2017 10:22 p.m.

Thanks! I've focused a lot on other decks so this one hadn't had as much visibility, but I'm glad to hear you like it.

September 2, 2017 10:56 p.m.

Please login to comment




Compare to inventory
Date added 1 year
Last updated 3 months
Legality

This deck is Commander / EDH legal.

Cards 103
Avg. CMC 2.90
Folders Combos, Deck ideas
Top rank #60 on 2017-09-04
Views 2662

Revision 47 See all

3 months ago)

-1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel main
+1 Abrupt Decay main