kyuuri117 That is not how Ertai's Meddling works, it puts the actual card back on the stack with a copy effect on it.

Source: I went and asked in Judges Chat.

Hey man, I think I'm ready to take the plunge into Teferi. I own literally 90 cards for this list, I can afford everything except tabernacle and time twister. Is this deck still competitive without those and if so, what substitutes do you think Are the best? Thanks

Also quick question, the combo only requires 5 mana worth of rocks to tap , the veil, and Teferi able to -1 correct?

benjameenbear7: I still really don't like Consecrated Sphinx for the same reasons that were presented in the Single Card Discussion segment of the Primer.Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is not a good fit for this deck. His cost of 2UUU is prohibitive enough that he doesn't come down early enough to stop those combos while also holding some kind of interaction to protect him. Furthermore, he does almost nothing against most graveyard-based decks, which have been very popular as of late.

Monobluemuffins: It's still a very strong deck that holds its own well against the 4-colour decks. It's unique playstyle and easy access to a two-card combo help a lot in that regard. Teferi is a good deck to learn cEDH on, but don't be discouraged if you lose a lot of games at first - it's one of the harder decks to pilot well. Once you do understand it though, it's a blast to play.

Shaykmp: Nope, none of the new cards are good enough to go into Teferi.

Rarian: If you see a lot of those graveyard-focused decks in your Meta, slotting in Scavenger Grounds over Strip Mine is definitely a good move.

kyuuri117: Ertai's Meddling isn't quite good enough for this deck. As someone else already pointed out, it puts the original copy of the spell back on the stack, and even if you compare it to a card like Delay, it's not good enough. The power of Delay is not just that it often renders some spells useless, but also that it gives the whole table three turn cycles to find an answer to a game-winning spell.

Mataogetrekt: Yes, the deck is still very much good and playable without those two cards. Just don't forget to swap Stroke of Genius for Blue Sun's Zenith. And yes, that is what you need to go off if you still have your Teferi at 5 Loyalty. 5 Mana from 3 permanents, Chain Veil, and the ability to use Teferi's -1.

LabManiac_Sigi: I missed the Single-Card Discussion section of the Primer. I'll have to seriously evaluate Consecrated Sphinx and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and see if they're worthwhile. I think I can let Teferi go, but the Sphinx has been so incredibly dominant in any game it's been in that I don't think I'll let it go. I'll try to be objective about the decklist, since I want Teferi to be my cutthroat, dream-crushing cEDH deck.

So with the advent of creature-heavy metas, what cards would you take out and replace with the Maybeboard? Curious as to suggestions.

So first off, I have been using this list as my main source of inspiration for building my own... So thank you for being so in depth! I have been working on adjusting your list to my meta and I was wondering if Walking Ballista could be a better infinite mana outlet than Stroke of Genius? With Stroke you have to be able to get it back into your hand and target players. With ballista, you can just dome all of the opposing players. It can also be a helpful piece of interaction for combo decks that are reliant on their commander (see Arcum/sisay). I know that we are not running a lot of creatures because we usually cannot tutor for them/running creature hate. But I just wanted to hear your thoughts on this option. THANKS!

Hello LabManiac_Sigi! Question, what could I use as a backup wincon if my chain veil gets exiled and I don't own a Timetwister? My list is functionally your list without workshop, twister and tabernacle. Possibly Dimensional Infiltrator and try to assemble rings and monolith?

As we mentioned in the primer, if you don't own Timetwister, you should always run Blue Sun's Zenith instead of Stroke of Genius.

Hey, I saw you are playing Manifold Insights, and I have been thinking about adding it to some of my decks, but I wanted to ask you:

1. Is it good in general for blue decks?

2. Is it good enough in spite of the fact that EDH won't always have 3 or more opponents?

3. Is it good enough in spite of the fact that opponents can choose what you draw?

Thanks :)

Hey, Manifold Insights is a bit of a weird one. It's definitely good enough in Teferi, but not many other decks will want it.

1. I think the only other cEDH deck that might want Manifold Insights is Rashmi Control. It's a decent card in decks that lend themselves to a control strategy since it's strong card advantage. However, control decks that also have access to Black won't need Manifold Insights since they have better options.

2. No. If most of your pods happen with less than 4 players total, the card becomes way worse.

3. Yes - it's good enough in Teferi, at least. The deck consists almost entirely of card draw, ramp, interaction, and tutors/combo pieces, and we're pretty much never not happy to get more of any of those. It wouldn't be as good in a deck where, say, we need specific pieces in our graveyard or where our combo involves a lot of pieces that we don't want to draw into (f.i. Necrotic Ooze).

Thanks for the quick answer, it definitely helped me make the decision to not play it in any of my decks, since none of them fit the general description that you are describing for when it's good. I appreciate it!

What about Clever Impersonator as a second copy of Teferi? Just sac the original one as Clever Impersonator etb to use his ability one more time on that turn.

LabManiac_Sigi Have you considered Jace Beleren in this list as a card engine and also a alternate win? I see a situation where stroke is useless early on and Jace could net some quick card advantage. This combined with him being not much of a threat in EDH I feel people would ignore him. Then when you combo off you have the ability to draw your whole deck and draw/mill everyone else. Seems like a better strategy then recycling stroke over and over. Thoughts?

Im currently trying to piece this deck together, but considering the budget attached, It's going to take a little while to get a hold of a time twister. For the time being, would it be beneficial to use Karn liberated as a means of milling my third opponent?

Invoke Prejudice seems like a solid card a in mono blue creature light deck. Makes any sweepers your opponents play that much more devastating and your bounce spells that much nicer when targeting creatures. The UUUU cost makes it awkward. Turn 3 seems like the earliest reasonable turn it would hit the table.

Awesome deck by the way - can't wait to throw it together and give it a try.

Have you considered adding Braingeyser? it seems that instant speed isnt that relevant in a sorcery speed combo, and having that extra finisher seems handy

One of the most important aspects of Stroke is the fact that it can be cast mid game as a value spell to put as ahead of our opponents on card advantage. Braingeyser doesn't give us the same opportunity, because of the sorcery speed limitation and the U vs UU vs UUU (if you run Blue Sun's Zenith in that spot) difference is generally irrelevant when you have infinite mana. Teferi allows us to filter colorless mana and UU into UUUU if you have infinite colorless mana from something like power artifact.

Would paradox engine instead of memory jar be a viable option for cedh?

what's the Fellwar Stone for?

It taps for blue. That's generally good enough for most decks

Jabber2014wocky Paradox doesn't really do anything for the deck. Memory jar is not essential for the core list so just replace it with an interaction or stax piece appropriate for your meta

It's 1 more mana but wouldn't Darksteel Ingot be a little better than Fellwar Stone seeing that it's a guaranteed 1 blue mana and it's indestructible.

Papa_Dingo: It's 1 more mana (...) - this is what makes it infinite times weaker in cEDH ;).

Rarian How does it being 1 more mana make it that much weaker... Also what happens when none of your opponents are playing blue? Then Fellwar Stone is useless...

In competitive EDH turn 3 is the critical turn of the game. That turn you need to either be winning the game, locking the board up or setting up the win.

Taking that turn off in order to cast a rock with a marginal upside (and the upside of ingot over stone really is negligible, we have plenty of colored mana even if felwar somehow doesn't tap for blue, which it always will) will just lose you the game plain and simple. The deck can't afford to run any 3 mana rocks