- 1x Brainstorm
- 1x Chain of Vapor
- 1x Counterspell
- 1x Cyclonic Rift
- 1x Delay
- 1x Dig Through Time
- 1x Fact or Fiction
- 1x Flusterstorm
- 1x Force of Will
- 1x Frantic Search
- 1x High Tide
- 1x Impulse
- 1x Into the Roil
- 1x Intuition
- 1x Mana Drain
- 1x Mental Misstep
- 1x Muddle the Mixture
- 1x Mystical Tutor
- 1x Pact of Negation
- 1x Spell Pierce
- 1x Stroke of Genius
- 1x Swan Song
- 1x Thirst for Knowledge
- 1x Whir of Invention
- 1x Basalt Monolith
- 1x Chrome Mox
- 1x Cursed Totem
- 1x Expedition Map
- 1x Fellwar Stone
- 1x Gilded Lotus
- 1x Grafdigger's Cage
- 1x Grim Monolith
- 1x Lotus Petal
- 1x Mana Crypt
- 1x Mana Vault
- 1x Memory Jar
- 1x Mind Stone
- 1x Mox Diamond
- 1x Mox Opal
- 1x Rings of Brighthearth
- 1x Sensei's Divining Top
- 1x Sol Ring
- 1x The Chain Veil
- 1x Thran Dynamo
- 1x Torpor Orb
- 1x Vedalken Shackles
- 1x Voltaic Key
- 1x Winter Orb
- 1x Academy Ruins
- 1x Ancient Tomb
- 1x Buried Ruin
- 1x Flooded Strand
- 1x Inventors' Fair
- 19x Island
- 1x Mishra's Workshop
- 1x Misty Rainforest
- 1x Polluted Delta
- 1x Scalding Tarn
- 1x Seat of the Synod
- 1x Strip Mine
- 1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
I posted in a different thread, but how does the deck fare against Animar? I consider Animar to be Tier 1, but I suppose it could be Tier 1.5 depending on who else is at the table.
March 2, 2017 9:27 a.m.
Animar tends to get screwed over really hard by Torpor Orb. If you adjust your mulligan choices to aggressively look for either Torpor Orb itself or an artifact tutor to get it out t3 at the latest, you should usually be in the clear. Furthermore, Animar has kinda fallen out of favour lately in the competitive Metas I play in, so I haven't been paying much attention to the deck. It also relies on its Commander a lot, so you can slow the Animar player down by a lot if you bounce or counter it. Or, well, steal it with Vedalken Shackles if that's what you're into.
March 2, 2017 12:19 p.m.
I own a very tuned list of Arcum Dagsson with a extremely similar list and strategy. Essentially I try and create a engine or disk lock the table asap with stax soft locks and interaction to stop my opponents. The decks main weakness is that I rely heavily on the tinker effect of Arcum to win. My question is, should I , or do I need to switch to Teferi to stay competitive? Or is Arcum still viable as a cEDH deck?
March 3, 2017 12:40 a.m.
Have you considered Counterbalance in the list? I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on it since you already run Top. I've had good success with it and in competitive metas, the random card at the top of the deck, if you haven't had a chance to manipulate it through Top, Brainstorm, or Ponder, is usually in a CMC range to counter something relevant. The record I have of countered spells with Counterbalance is 5 so far, and it consistently averages 2-3 spells per game. It adds another element of disruption and will always counter a CMC 1 spell with Top on the field, which is extremely relevant in a competitive meta. I also run Jace, the Mind Sculptor as an additional win con that interacts favorably with Counterbalance and for the long game advantage.
March 3, 2017 9:16 a.m.
To Mataogetrekt: You've come to the right place - Arcum is my #2 deck right after Teferi! This more staxy Arcum build is what people in my community used to play before Paradox Engine got spoiled. Nowadays, Arcum is more of a fast combo build that uses Arcum to tutor up Paradox Engine and Citanul Flute, and then uses Citanul Flute to get Scrap Trawler and Myr Retriever, which you can loop with a sac outlet (i.e. Arcum himself) to untap your Mana rocks thanks to Paradox Engine. After you're basically made infinite Mana with that, you tap Citanul Flute to search for Walking Ballista, which you can cast to shoot everyone in the face for tons of damage. Here's the link to the version that most people are playing right now: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-02-17-paradox-arcum/
If you're looking for a highly competitive build that has Stax as its Main plan, I'd recommend looking into either Keranos (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/keranos-blood-moon/) or Grand Arbiter Augustin IV (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/my-cockatrice-list-for-gaaiv/). Stax is in a tough spot nowadays if you don't heavily commit to the plan, and neither new Arcum nor Teferi is a deck that really commits to Stax. If you're playing your staxy Arcum in a moderately competitive paper Meta, then it's probably fine to leave him that way though. Teferi is the better Mono Blue Stax commander, but the deck only gets weaker by committing to Stax, in my opinion.
To benjameenbear7: Yeah, I've enjoyed Shackles a lot for the short time I had it in my deck, and I still recommend it for appropriate Metas. Such a good card.
I've thought about Counterbalance, and I think I would play it in Teferi along with JTMS if I heavily committed to building a strictly Stax Teferi. However, as I've outlined in both the Primer and the comment above, I don't think that going full Stax (or full Combo) is the right way to build Teferi, since its main strength lies in being able to both play a strong short game and a strong long game.
March 3, 2017 9:57 a.m.
NeunviertelFair enough. I think that keeping the pieces to counteract your very reactive meta is probably more important (ie: Delay, Spell Pierce, Mental Misstep, etc.) than a grindier approach. I find that Counterbalance has been very effective in my meta and my playstyle naturally favors a more control-oriented role, so the strategy works for me.
If I had to pick a card in your list that you could test Counterbalance in place of, I would choose either Delay or Spell Pierce since Counterbalance performs the same role as these two cards, albeit in a less controlled manner.
How has Power Artifact performed for you? I have one that is sitting in my binder currently and I've frequently had mental debates about adding it in. It adds another infinite combo, of course, but it seems fragile in my opinion.
March 3, 2017 10:43 a.m.
Yeah, if a more controlling build fits you better as a player, by all means: go for it. After all, even when playing competitively, you should play something you enjoy.
Power Artifact has been great for me - it's one of those few cards that gives Teferi his potential to win out of nowhere. Basalt and Grim Monolith are cards that most people never really attack, and if you have Power Artifact, you can just suddenly have infinite Mana out of nowhere. If you're not on Stroke of Genius/Timetwister, etc. as your Plan B, it might not be as good, but I've found infinite Mana off Rings/Power Artifact + Basalt Monolith to be the best Plan B for this deck, partially because it doesn't really play any cards that are useless outside of the Combo. Fragility doesn't matter too much in this case, because you're usually looking to win the game the turn you play Power Artifact.
March 3, 2017 11:55 a.m.
Thanks for the info mate. I'm also looking for a Edh deck that's very competetive, but is extremley under played. Like with a general that's not known as a real " Tier 1 " commander. Would you have any suggestions? Thanks.
March 3, 2017 9:13 p.m.
Hm - if you're fine with decks that I've brewed up, I could recommend the Paradox Adun build - it's probably the closest thing to a typical Jund deck that exists in cEDH and has been putting up decent results. Adun is definitely a commander that won't be on anyone's radar in a competitive setting. Outside of that, I've seen a pretty cool Ephara build by IustitiaRex here on TappedOut that's been winning a lot. Those are probably the best two under-the-radar builds I can recommend right now.
March 3, 2017 9:22 p.m.
Thanks again, you are one of the best deck builders on the Internet as far as I'm concerned , I'll definetly check out you other lists.
March 4, 2017 12:34 p.m.
Oh wow, thanks a lot! I hope you're gonna have a good time with them.
March 4, 2017 1:03 p.m.
I have a last question. Is it worth it for me to modify my Arcum deck and go with teferi? Currently I would only have to buy a few cards excluding time twister and tabernacle because they're out of my budget. Would teferi still be good with a Windfall substitute or a similar card vs a timetwister? The only reason I'm asking if I should switch is due to the fact that I own a altered Arcum lol.
March 4, 2017 2:32 p.m.
Here's my current Arcum list for reference.
March 4, 2017 2:41 p.m.
I'd say it depends on your playgroup. If you're all playing highly competitive decks, switching to Teferi will make a lot of sense because he's still the strongest Mono Blue general. If not everyone in your playgroup is on top-grade competitive decks, staying on your Arcum build might be healthier in the long run. If that's the case, you can always wait to make the switch until everyone has powered up appropriately.
When it comes to Budget alternatives, they're definitely there. You can replace Timetwister with Time Reversal, but that also means you're gonna have to replace Stroke of Genius with Blue Sun's Zenith because the Stroke of Genius kill won't work. Furthermore, if you don't run Tabernacle and Workshop, I'd recommend replacing those two with Islands and getting rid of Expedition Map.
March 4, 2017 5:53 p.m.
Thanks for the info. I'll probably keep my Arcum lost and make the switch to teferi when appropriate. As for my play group, 13 or so people play commander weekly on Saturday nights and 3 of them run competetive decks, one guy runs yisan , teferi, and oloro stax and switches between the three. However, he isn't very "skilled" with his lists as he tends to copy decks online without much play testing or strategy, which I'm fine with. The other 2 people play zur stax , Triton Hero dude storm, and a interesting colorless kozilek stax deck. Most of the other people play tier 2 to tier 3 lists i'd say. That being said, I'll definitely keep your list in mind and I'm planning on investing on a heavily played workshop which I'll purchase when I do eventually go over to Teferi. I may add a small personal spin to it , but honestly I would find myself very hard pressed to improve this list much haha. This list seems to be extremley tuned.
March 4, 2017 8:44 p.m.
You have Lotus Petal both in your decklist and in a "notable exclusions" list when you claim it's not worth it at all :D that's kinda misleading.
March 5, 2017 10:32 a.m.
Good find. This Primer was authored by two people (neosloth/superstepa and myself), and Lotus Petal is one of the cards we did not agree on. The Single Card Discussion part was mostly written by neo, while I focused on the more abstract parts of the Primer. For me personally, Lotus Petal is still good in the deck because I lean more towards the fast combo aspect of Teferi, and Lotus Petal (along with the greedier package I used to run before my most recent update) gave me the ability to win earlier more frequently while only sacrificing a tiny bit of redundancy. Furthermore, after reading through the primer, you should take a close look at all three sample lists, and use the knowledge you've gained to analyse and evaluate the nuances of each individual list.
March 5, 2017 11 a.m.
A question for you. Have been playing Teferi in my competitive league with a lot of success, but there is a card I am not happy with. It is overburden.Green is rampant in our meta, and More often than not, if I am not casting it on turn 1, the only thing it does is allowing them to use Gaia's craddle twice in the same turn...What is you opinion on it ?
March 6, 2017 4:29 p.m.
Hey, that's a good obversation. While Overburden is very good at messing with decks like Karador, it struggles hard against Gaea's Cradle, which is definitely something to keep in mind when adjusting this deck to your local meta. If a lot of the creature-based decks you play against tend to get Cradle early quite consistently, you could consider swapping it out for a different piece of creature hate.
March 6, 2017 10:05 p.m.
NeunviertelAny game reports?
Also, I've recently considered running Pithing Needle instead of Grafdigger's Cage, since I'm really the only player with a Reanimator-based strategy. It's a narrow response, but I think it neuters specific commanders very well ie: Yisan, Azami, Food-Chain variants. Thoughts?
March 8, 2017 8:27 a.m.
Not necessarily game reports, but if you head over to the , you can find me playing Teferi in a couple of games.
Pithing Needle is a decent card, but Grafdigger's Cage doesn't just hose Reanimator Decks. It also works wonders against Storm, Doomsday, Yisan, Karador, and Birthing Pod type Decks in general. If none of the people in your Meta are playing these types of decks, then sure - feel free to cut Grafdigger's Cage.
March 8, 2017 9:24 a.m.
Since for some reason, links don't seem to work for me on TappedOut, here's the link in plain text form: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo41YdkXVTp4dTXvhduaeYw
March 8, 2017 9:25 a.m.
beauty deck, but i want to say 2 things:
1) tezzeret the seeker + seat of synod + stasis is the perfect combination for the stax strategy
2) Add Tolaria West. it's a good way to search the tabernacle at pendrell vale
March 8, 2017 8:56 p.m.
If you look at the Update log for this deck, Tolaria West was indeed part of it at some point. My stance on it is that paying 1UU at Sorcery speed is just straight-up not worth it with this deck being quite bottlenecked in regards to coloured Mana.
March 8, 2017 9:27 p.m.
March 9, 2017 5:43 a.m.
Yup, Tinker is far better than Reshape, and Reshape is easily our worst artifact Tutor, but alas, Tinker is banned. If it were legal however, I'd probably still run Reshape to have even more redundancy.
March 9, 2017 9:37 a.m.
NeunviertelGood game vid. The quality was good and the banter, as noted in the Youtube comments, was great.
Grafdigger's Cage does say library, huh? Totally forgot about that clause. Yisan sucks so much more now with that card in play.
March 9, 2017 12:39 p.m.
Looks amazing. I have most of these cards. Going to give it a try.
March 17, 2017 1:07 a.m.
Dumb question. How does timetwister/stroke of genius make a win?
March 18, 2017 12:32 p.m.
Very good question, actually - we had that come up on the Teferi Discord a couple of days ago. There are two different ways, depending on whether you have access to the Chain Veil combo or not (I'll also talk to neo about including that explanation in the Primer somewhere):
With Chain Veil: You draw your whole deck, cast Stroke of Genius for at least x + 1, where x is the number of cards in their library, on one opponent to mill them out. Stroke hits the graveyard. Now, you cast Timetwister to shuffle it back into your library. After that, you +1 Teferi until you find Stroke again/have your whole deck in your hand, which lets you cast it again to mill our your second opponent. For your third opponent, you can flash it back with Snapcaster Mage to mill them out as well. If you somehow have more than three opponents, you can also use Time Spiral to get it back once, or you can flash back Timetwister with Snapcaster/JVP to shuffle it back once more.
Without Chain Veil: The way you do it is the same, but instead of using Teferi to draw your whole deck, you repeatedly use Sensei's Divining Top + Rings of Brighthearth to copy the Sensei's Divining Top draw. This lets you draw one card + Top itself, which means that you can replay top and keep drawing cards if you have infinite colourless Mana.
March 18, 2017 12:42 p.m.
Two cards I would like to suggest.
The first is Padeem, Consul of Innovation. Both effects I have found to be amazing, but I particularly enjoy the draw. The hex proof has won me games. His mana cost is a little high however so I understand why maybe not an include, but hes also a good drop when you have a good mana hand but will run out of gas.
The second and better card in my opinion is Dimensional Infiltrator. He's an alternate win-con that with the right hand can win turn one or two. Hes very cheap and can be activated at instant speed so near uninterruptible, and you have everything else he needs already in deck. So a one card switch. Oh and he has flash!!!
Would enjoy your thoughts!
March 20, 2017 9:55 p.m.
Padeem is a card I might consider running if I basically had to play Archenemy every game and people started packing a ton of artifact removal just for me. But in most competitive Metas, where decks are supposed to be on somewhat equal footing, our artifacts won't be interacted with enough to require giving them Hexproof. Another issue with Padeem is that the card draw he provides is incremental advantage, which is not something Teferi decks traditionally use. The only two pieces of incremental advantage we run are Sensei's Divining Top and JVP, with the latter also providing a lot of immediate advantage once he flips. Incremental advantages take several turns to really take effect, and that's not something we can afford to invest in, even if we drop him, say, Turn 2. Four Mana is a fairly big jump up from 3 Mana, which means that all of our spells that cost 4 Mana (or more) need to either provide us with a massive immediate advantage (think Memory Jar, Time Spiral) or win the game for us (Chain Veil, Tezzeret to tutor Chain Veil). Padeem does neither of those, unfortunately.
Dimensional Infiltrator is interesting, and I appreciate the creativity that goes into that choice. However, there are two reasons why we don't need it:
- Diversifying win conditions is not something that Teferi needs to do.
- Having Infiltrator as a wincon opens up a whole avenue of interaction for our opponents that they previously had no access to: creature removal. As stated in the Primer, creature removal is basically useless against us, but with Dimensional Infiltrator as a win condition, it suddenly becomes very good.
March 21, 2017 9:44 a.m.
Neunviertel - I have a question of a different matter, among my decks the mono blue deck I've played with was high tide azami which I plan to change into Teferi, the build I'll start with is the exact same as yours because this primer is truly outstanding and I feel like it's the best way to go with Teferi. I own all but two cards from your list which are Tabernacle and Workshop. Which should be the first one I purchase? I feel like Workshop helps a lot with explosive openings but my meta is quite heavy on creatures (e.g. yisan, boonweaver karador, meren stax).on the other hand Workshop is quite cheaper :P. I'll probably get both of them but which one is more crucial for you?
The other thing is the issue of expedition map. Without tabernacle and workshop I feel like it's a free spot. What card you'd put in its place? I was thinking about either vedalken shackles or engulf the shore (because without tabernacle I lack mass removal).
March 21, 2017 10:08 a.m.
If you really wanted to get one of the two, I'd say go for Tabernacle first. It's a card you're gonna want in many different competitive EDH decks, and one of our best pieces of creature hate. And yeah, you're spot on about Expedition Map - one piece of Tech I'm currently considering is Portcullis for more creature hate, but Engulf the Shore is also decent. Take that one if lots of creatures is your problem, and Shackles if you only need to deal with some key creatures.
March 21, 2017 10:36 a.m.
Hey! Love this build! Was just wondering if you considered Blue Sun's Zenith over Stroke of Genius? It's the same CMC, UUU shouldn't be an issue in mono blue, and it's repeatable for multiplayer.
April 6, 2017 12:09 p.m.
Hey, thanks! The main purpose of Stroke of Genius is as a secondary win condition if we somehow can't go for the Ugin win. The reason why I chose Stroke of Genius over Blue Sun's Zenith is that it's much easier to cast (X2U instead of XUUU) outside of that win condition. While that's not something we normally want to do, Stroke makes it much easier for us to pull off if we really have to. The reason why Stroke works as a backup win condition is because we can bring it back with Timetwister, Time Spiral, and Snapcaster Mage after we've gone infinite on Mana and Draw with Teferi + Chain Veil.
April 6, 2017 12:20 p.m.
Ahhh of course, thank you so much for the quick response!
April 6, 2017 12:28 p.m.
I see no reason not to be running Scroll Rack. It's not listed in your notable exclusions. Your even running the fetches to take advantage of the shuffle. As well as other shuffle effects.
April 20, 2017 1:02 p.m.
April 20, 2017 1:23 p.m.
Heavenly Axe: I have my own chain veil teferi, and although I obviously haven't made this one, I thought it might be useful to here my reasons why. For Wasteland, the reason I don't run it isn't lack of power or anything, it's taking away a colored mana slot in the mana base. Teferi is incredibly strong once it starts going, but you need plenty of sources of colored mana. If you've noticed, there's not many artifacts in the deck that produce colored mana, so to combo off with the Chain Veil you usually need about two basic lands, and you want to maximize your capacity of keepable hands.As for Scroll Rack, I originally had it in my version, but had to cut it, not because it's not great, I love the interaction with fetches, but because it happened to be the least playable card in my deck. If something else gets banned, or gets cut due to a rules change, I would include it at once, but for me it doesn't fit in the deck.
April 21, 2017 4:40 p.m.
Re HeavenlyAxe: While Scroll Rack looks like a fine card on paper, there are several reasons why it doesn't fit into Teferi. You did identify that the deck does indeed have enough shuffle effects to justify its inclusion in that regard, but there's much more to that card.
It's slow: Scroll Rack takes uses up three Mana at a point in the game where we usually want to develop our board. Due to several of our Mana-positive rocks being non-untapping (Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith), we don't actually have that much Mana we can comfortably use on things like Scroll Rack. And if you're looking to only use it when the game goes longer, then that's honestly not a good way to look at it. You want to minimise the amount of cards that are going to be useless in half (or more) of your games.
The deck already has plenty of draw and card selection that's significantly more powerful than Scroll Rack.
It doesn't actually generate card advantage: Scroll Rack doesn't draw us cards, and it also doesn't really provide card selection outside of being used with a shuffle effect.
All in all, Scroll Rack is the kinda card you'd run when there's nothing better to run for card selection in your colours (think like Mono White with Scroll Rack + Land Tax). Teferi has a lot of better options, so we don't need a card like that. For Wasteland, I'll point you towards Wasadia123's comment, since they were spot on.
April 21, 2017 6:26 p.m.
Have you considered As Foretold here maybe? Or do you think that maybe it will be too slow for this?
Anyways looks like a good deck you have here for sure, +1.
April 21, 2017 11:46 p.m.
Thanks a lot! And yeah, I thought about it for a bit, and probably would've played it if the card made it possible to play my Sorceries or Mana rocks on other people's turns. Sadly, it doesn't, and it takes several turns cycles to really start being useful, so it'd be another one of those cards that aren't useful when we're going for a fast combo win.
April 22, 2017 10:12 a.m.
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|Date added||6 months|
|Last updated||5 days|
This deck is Commander / EDH legal.
|Tokens||Teferi, Jace, 1/1 Bird|
|Folders||Modify to Cheapen, Interesting , Top Tier, cEDH, deck ideas, Teferi, Decks, Things I like, Edh, Save, See all 32|
|Top rank||#10 on 2017-03-11|