- 1x Brainstorm
- 1x Chain of Vapor
- 1x Counterspell
- 1x Cyclonic Rift
- 1x Delay
- 1x Dig Through Time
- 1x Fact or Fiction
- 1x Flusterstorm
- 1x Force of Will
- 1x Frantic Search
- 1x High Tide
- 1x Impulse
- 1x Into the Roil
- 1x Intuition
- 1x Mana Drain
- 1x Mental Misstep
- 1x Muddle the Mixture
- 1x Mystical Tutor
- 1x Pact of Negation
- 1x Spell Pierce
- 1x Stroke of Genius
- 1x Swan Song
- 1x Thirst for Knowledge
- 1x Whir of Invention
- 1x Basalt Monolith
- 1x Chrome Mox
- 1x Cursed Totem
- 1x Expedition Map
- 1x Fellwar Stone
- 1x Gilded Lotus
- 1x Grafdigger's Cage
- 1x Grim Monolith
- 1x Lotus Petal
- 1x Mana Crypt
- 1x Mana Vault
- 1x Memory Jar
- 1x Mind Stone
- 1x Mox Diamond
- 1x Mox Opal
- 1x Rings of Brighthearth
- 1x Sensei's Divining Top
- 1x Sol Ring
- 1x The Chain Veil
- 1x Thran Dynamo
- 1x Torpor Orb
- 1x Voltaic Key
- 1x Winter Orb
- 1x Academy Ruins
- 1x Ancient Tomb
- 1x Buried Ruin
- 1x Flooded Strand
- 1x Inventors' Fair
- 20x Island
- 1x Misty Rainforest
- 1x Polluted Delta
- 1x Scalding Tarn
- 1x Seat of the Synod
- 1x Strip Mine
- 1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Comments View Archive
I have a last question. Is it worth it for me to modify my Arcum deck and go with teferi? Currently I would only have to buy a few cards excluding time twister and tabernacle because they're out of my budget. Would teferi still be good with a Windfall substitute or a similar card vs a timetwister? The only reason I'm asking if I should switch is due to the fact that I own a altered Arcum lol.
March 4, 2017 2:32 p.m.
Here's my current Arcum list for reference.
March 4, 2017 2:41 p.m.
I'd say it depends on your playgroup. If you're all playing highly competitive decks, switching to Teferi will make a lot of sense because he's still the strongest Mono Blue general. If not everyone in your playgroup is on top-grade competitive decks, staying on your Arcum build might be healthier in the long run. If that's the case, you can always wait to make the switch until everyone has powered up appropriately.
When it comes to Budget alternatives, they're definitely there. You can replace Timetwister with Time Reversal, but that also means you're gonna have to replace Stroke of Genius with Blue Sun's Zenith because the Stroke of Genius kill won't work. Furthermore, if you don't run Tabernacle and Workshop, I'd recommend replacing those two with Islands and getting rid of Expedition Map.
March 4, 2017 5:53 p.m.
Thanks for the info. I'll probably keep my Arcum lost and make the switch to teferi when appropriate. As for my play group, 13 or so people play commander weekly on Saturday nights and 3 of them run competetive decks, one guy runs yisan , teferi, and oloro stax and switches between the three. However, he isn't very "skilled" with his lists as he tends to copy decks online without much play testing or strategy, which I'm fine with. The other 2 people play zur stax , Triton Hero dude storm, and a interesting colorless kozilek stax deck. Most of the other people play tier 2 to tier 3 lists i'd say. That being said, I'll definitely keep your list in mind and I'm planning on investing on a heavily played workshop which I'll purchase when I do eventually go over to Teferi. I may add a small personal spin to it , but honestly I would find myself very hard pressed to improve this list much haha. This list seems to be extremley tuned.
March 4, 2017 8:44 p.m.
You have Lotus Petal both in your decklist and in a "notable exclusions" list when you claim it's not worth it at all :D that's kinda misleading.
March 5, 2017 10:32 a.m.
Good find. This Primer was authored by two people (neosloth/superstepa and myself), and Lotus Petal is one of the cards we did not agree on. The Single Card Discussion part was mostly written by neo, while I focused on the more abstract parts of the Primer. For me personally, Lotus Petal is still good in the deck because I lean more towards the fast combo aspect of Teferi, and Lotus Petal (along with the greedier package I used to run before my most recent update) gave me the ability to win earlier more frequently while only sacrificing a tiny bit of redundancy. Furthermore, after reading through the primer, you should take a close look at all three sample lists, and use the knowledge you've gained to analyse and evaluate the nuances of each individual list.
March 5, 2017 11 a.m.
A question for you. Have been playing Teferi in my competitive league with a lot of success, but there is a card I am not happy with. It is overburden.Green is rampant in our meta, and More often than not, if I am not casting it on turn 1, the only thing it does is allowing them to use Gaia's craddle twice in the same turn...What is you opinion on it ?
March 6, 2017 4:29 p.m.
Hey, that's a good obversation. While Overburden is very good at messing with decks like Karador, it struggles hard against Gaea's Cradle, which is definitely something to keep in mind when adjusting this deck to your local meta. If a lot of the creature-based decks you play against tend to get Cradle early quite consistently, you could consider swapping it out for a different piece of creature hate.
March 6, 2017 10:05 p.m.
NeunviertelAny game reports?
Also, I've recently considered running Pithing Needle instead of Grafdigger's Cage, since I'm really the only player with a Reanimator-based strategy. It's a narrow response, but I think it neuters specific commanders very well ie: Yisan, Azami, Food-Chain variants. Thoughts?
March 8, 2017 8:27 a.m.
Not necessarily game reports, but if you head over to the , you can find me playing Teferi in a couple of games.
Pithing Needle is a decent card, but Grafdigger's Cage doesn't just hose Reanimator Decks. It also works wonders against Storm, Doomsday, Yisan, Karador, and Birthing Pod type Decks in general. If none of the people in your Meta are playing these types of decks, then sure - feel free to cut Grafdigger's Cage.
March 8, 2017 9:24 a.m.
Since for some reason, links don't seem to work for me on TappedOut, here's the link in plain text form: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo41YdkXVTp4dTXvhduaeYw
March 8, 2017 9:25 a.m.
beauty deck, but i want to say 2 things:
1) tezzeret the seeker + seat of synod + stasis is the perfect combination for the stax strategy
2) Add Tolaria West. it's a good way to search the tabernacle at pendrell vale
March 8, 2017 8:56 p.m.
If you look at the Update log for this deck, Tolaria West was indeed part of it at some point. My stance on it is that paying 1UU at Sorcery speed is just straight-up not worth it with this deck being quite bottlenecked in regards to coloured Mana.
March 8, 2017 9:27 p.m.
March 9, 2017 5:43 a.m.
Yup, Tinker is far better than Reshape, and Reshape is easily our worst artifact Tutor, but alas, Tinker is banned. If it were legal however, I'd probably still run Reshape to have even more redundancy.
March 9, 2017 9:37 a.m.
NeunviertelGood game vid. The quality was good and the banter, as noted in the Youtube comments, was great.
Grafdigger's Cage does say library, huh? Totally forgot about that clause. Yisan sucks so much more now with that card in play.
March 9, 2017 12:39 p.m.
Looks amazing. I have most of these cards. Going to give it a try.
March 17, 2017 1:07 a.m.
Thanks! I hope you'll have a great time with it.
March 17, 2017 10:37 a.m.
Dumb question. How does timetwister/stroke of genius make a win?
March 18, 2017 12:32 p.m.
Very good question, actually - we had that come up on the Teferi Discord a couple of days ago. There are two different ways, depending on whether you have access to the Chain Veil combo or not (I'll also talk to neo about including that explanation in the Primer somewhere):
With Chain Veil: You draw your whole deck, cast Stroke of Genius for at least x + 1, where x is the number of cards in their library, on one opponent to mill them out. Stroke hits the graveyard. Now, you cast Timetwister to shuffle it back into your library. After that, you +1 Teferi until you find Stroke again/have your whole deck in your hand, which lets you cast it again to mill our your second opponent. For your third opponent, you can flash it back with Snapcaster Mage to mill them out as well. If you somehow have more than three opponents, you can also use Time Spiral to get it back once, or you can flash back Timetwister with Snapcaster/JVP to shuffle it back once more.
Without Chain Veil: The way you do it is the same, but instead of using Teferi to draw your whole deck, you repeatedly use Sensei's Divining Top + Rings of Brighthearth to copy the Sensei's Divining Top draw. This lets you draw one card + Top itself, which means that you can replay top and keep drawing cards if you have infinite colourless Mana.
March 18, 2017 12:42 p.m.
Two cards I would like to suggest.
The first is Padeem, Consul of Innovation. Both effects I have found to be amazing, but I particularly enjoy the draw. The hex proof has won me games. His mana cost is a little high however so I understand why maybe not an include, but hes also a good drop when you have a good mana hand but will run out of gas.
The second and better card in my opinion is Dimensional Infiltrator. He's an alternate win-con that with the right hand can win turn one or two. Hes very cheap and can be activated at instant speed so near uninterruptible, and you have everything else he needs already in deck. So a one card switch. Oh and he has flash!!!
Would enjoy your thoughts!
March 20, 2017 9:55 p.m.
Padeem is a card I might consider running if I basically had to play Archenemy every game and people started packing a ton of artifact removal just for me. But in most competitive Metas, where decks are supposed to be on somewhat equal footing, our artifacts won't be interacted with enough to require giving them Hexproof. Another issue with Padeem is that the card draw he provides is incremental advantage, which is not something Teferi decks traditionally use. The only two pieces of incremental advantage we run are Sensei's Divining Top and JVP, with the latter also providing a lot of immediate advantage once he flips. Incremental advantages take several turns to really take effect, and that's not something we can afford to invest in, even if we drop him, say, Turn 2. Four Mana is a fairly big jump up from 3 Mana, which means that all of our spells that cost 4 Mana (or more) need to either provide us with a massive immediate advantage (think Memory Jar, Time Spiral) or win the game for us (Chain Veil, Tezzeret to tutor Chain Veil). Padeem does neither of those, unfortunately.
Dimensional Infiltrator is interesting, and I appreciate the creativity that goes into that choice. However, there are two reasons why we don't need it:
- Diversifying win conditions is not something that Teferi needs to do.
- Having Infiltrator as a wincon opens up a whole avenue of interaction for our opponents that they previously had no access to: creature removal. As stated in the Primer, creature removal is basically useless against us, but with Dimensional Infiltrator as a win condition, it suddenly becomes very good.
March 21, 2017 9:44 a.m.
Neunviertel - I have a question of a different matter, among my decks the mono blue deck I've played with was high tide azami which I plan to change into Teferi, the build I'll start with is the exact same as yours because this primer is truly outstanding and I feel like it's the best way to go with Teferi. I own all but two cards from your list which are Tabernacle and Workshop. Which should be the first one I purchase? I feel like Workshop helps a lot with explosive openings but my meta is quite heavy on creatures (e.g. yisan, boonweaver karador, meren stax).on the other hand Workshop is quite cheaper :P. I'll probably get both of them but which one is more crucial for you?
The other thing is the issue of expedition map. Without tabernacle and workshop I feel like it's a free spot. What card you'd put in its place? I was thinking about either vedalken shackles or engulf the shore (because without tabernacle I lack mass removal).
March 21, 2017 10:08 a.m.
If you really wanted to get one of the two, I'd say go for Tabernacle first. It's a card you're gonna want in many different competitive EDH decks, and one of our best pieces of creature hate. And yeah, you're spot on about Expedition Map - one piece of Tech I'm currently considering is Portcullis for more creature hate, but Engulf the Shore is also decent. Take that one if lots of creatures is your problem, and Shackles if you only need to deal with some key creatures.
March 21, 2017 10:36 a.m.
Hey! Love this build! Was just wondering if you considered Blue Sun's Zenith over Stroke of Genius? It's the same CMC, UUU shouldn't be an issue in mono blue, and it's repeatable for multiplayer.
April 6, 2017 12:09 p.m.
Hey, thanks! The main purpose of Stroke of Genius is as a secondary win condition if we somehow can't go for the Ugin win. The reason why I chose Stroke of Genius over Blue Sun's Zenith is that it's much easier to cast (X2U instead of XUUU) outside of that win condition. While that's not something we normally want to do, Stroke makes it much easier for us to pull off if we really have to. The reason why Stroke works as a backup win condition is because we can bring it back with Timetwister, Time Spiral, and Snapcaster Mage after we've gone infinite on Mana and Draw with Teferi + Chain Veil.
April 6, 2017 12:20 p.m.
Ahhh of course, thank you so much for the quick response!
April 6, 2017 12:28 p.m.
I see no reason not to be running Scroll Rack. It's not listed in your notable exclusions. Your even running the fetches to take advantage of the shuffle. As well as other shuffle effects.
April 20, 2017 1:02 p.m.
April 20, 2017 1:23 p.m.
Heavenly Axe: I have my own chain veil teferi, and although I obviously haven't made this one, I thought it might be useful to here my reasons why. For Wasteland, the reason I don't run it isn't lack of power or anything, it's taking away a colored mana slot in the mana base. Teferi is incredibly strong once it starts going, but you need plenty of sources of colored mana. If you've noticed, there's not many artifacts in the deck that produce colored mana, so to combo off with the Chain Veil you usually need about two basic lands, and you want to maximize your capacity of keepable hands.As for Scroll Rack, I originally had it in my version, but had to cut it, not because it's not great, I love the interaction with fetches, but because it happened to be the least playable card in my deck. If something else gets banned, or gets cut due to a rules change, I would include it at once, but for me it doesn't fit in the deck.
April 21, 2017 4:40 p.m.
Re HeavenlyAxe: While Scroll Rack looks like a fine card on paper, there are several reasons why it doesn't fit into Teferi. You did identify that the deck does indeed have enough shuffle effects to justify its inclusion in that regard, but there's much more to that card.
It's slow: Scroll Rack takes uses up three Mana at a point in the game where we usually want to develop our board. Due to several of our Mana-positive rocks being non-untapping (Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith), we don't actually have that much Mana we can comfortably use on things like Scroll Rack. And if you're looking to only use it when the game goes longer, then that's honestly not a good way to look at it. You want to minimise the amount of cards that are going to be useless in half (or more) of your games.
The deck already has plenty of draw and card selection that's significantly more powerful than Scroll Rack.
It doesn't actually generate card advantage: Scroll Rack doesn't draw us cards, and it also doesn't really provide card selection outside of being used with a shuffle effect.
All in all, Scroll Rack is the kinda card you'd run when there's nothing better to run for card selection in your colours (think like Mono White with Scroll Rack + Land Tax). Teferi has a lot of better options, so we don't need a card like that. For Wasteland, I'll point you towards Wasadia123's comment, since they were spot on.
April 21, 2017 6:26 p.m.
Have you considered As Foretold here maybe? Or do you think that maybe it will be too slow for this?
Anyways looks like a good deck you have here for sure, +1.
April 21, 2017 11:46 p.m.
Thanks a lot! And yeah, I thought about it for a bit, and probably would've played it if the card made it possible to play my Sorceries or Mana rocks on other people's turns. Sadly, it doesn't, and it takes several turns cycles to really start being useful, so it'd be another one of those cards that aren't useful when we're going for a fast combo win.
April 22, 2017 10:12 a.m.
Just some questions: What's your thoughts on using Turnabout to Maximize high tide. Also with the amount of artifacts mana you have, how useful has high tide been?
May 1, 2017 10:54 p.m.
Think of High Tide in this deck more as Dark Ritual than as High Tide in something like JVP. We're not trying to do big HT combo turns with it, we can use it as a ritual effect to get a bit more mana or as an enabler for the Chain Veil combo, which it has been doing a very good job of. That's why cards like Turnabout or Candelabra of Tawnos are not good in Teferi.
May 2, 2017 7:44 a.m.
Hey, great list and excellent article!
I am just wondering about arcane denial as a hard exclusion. Are situations where arcane denial can function as a draw three, and situations where less threatening/crippled players can be made threatening not relavent enough to warrant inclusion? Just curious about your thoughts on the matter. Thanks!
May 21, 2017 12:30 a.m.
Thanks! The idea behind why Arcane Denial is bad can be boiled down to a very simple concept: if your opponents aren't playing bad card, then you can't make them draw bad/useless cards off Arcane Denial. The other reason is that the deck already had enough slots devoted to countermagic, and the ones in there are all better than Arcane Denial.
May 21, 2017 8:33 a.m.
Hi, very nice decklist.
I have two questions that I hope you can find the time to answer.
I dont have acces to Timetwister or Tabernacle. Is this deck any good without those? And if I had to buy one of the them, which one is best for this deck? I'm thinking that Timetwister is best since it is part of combo and therefore good in all match-ups where as Tabernacle is only really good in certain match-ups.
Hope you will answer me, cheers.
May 22, 2017 6:33 a.m.
June 5, 2017 12:27 p.m.
Gemstone Caverns is a card that, from my experience, is completely useless outside of dedicated fast combo lists (think Sidisi ANF or Doomsday Grenzo). Here are a few reasons as to why it's bad in this specific list:
- We still like High Tide quite a lot even if it's not a key card like it is in JVP, and we don't need the colourfixing provided by it at all
- The chance of getting it in our opening hand is REALLY low
- In a deck that's as focused on card advantage as this, even if we were to have it in our opener, it would immediately set us back two cards (Caverns itself and the card we exiled for it).
- At the same time, it only provides a fairly miniscule mana advantage in a deck that's already one of the best in the format at quickly getting to high amounts of mana.
June 5, 2017 3:40 p.m.
Makes sense to me,just wanted to hear your thoughts on it
June 6, 2017 10:22 a.m.
Most games I like to drop totem in favor of walking ballista. It is probably just my meta. I do like having a win condition outside of stroke or JMS... How much do you rely on totem? Any thoughts on Ballista?
June 16, 2017 7:18 a.m.
I rely on Cursed Totem a lot. In a deck like this, you usually want to maximze slot efficiency, and Walking Ballista is not an efficient use of a card slot here.
June 16, 2017 9:47 a.m.
Right on buddy. My meta plays a lot of extract lobotomy effects, (probably a 60/40 mix of shepards vs sheep... ie usualy half the pod can't grap threat assessment or anything in the way of a logical thought process) they always go to veil immediately .... Once they do they usually think of me as not threat so it takes a lot of the heat off and helps to have a little more firepower when you get power artifact to stick on a monolith. I am sure you are right overall though.
June 16, 2017 10:15 a.m.
Oh, playing and building to your Meta is definitely important. If they continuously attack you with cards that exile your win conditions, adding another one is probably a fine thing to do. Do they ever go for Rings/Power Artifact/Basalt Monolith/Grim Monolith/Sensei's Divining Top? Because if they don't, adding Blue Sun's Zenith on top of Stroke of Genius should probably be good enough. Or you add Walking Ballista, draw your whole deck with Top and bounce your own Cursed Totem before you win.
June 16, 2017 11:10 a.m.
What exactly are the differences between the 2 authors decklists? I believe one has dispel and the other 2 drop mana rock, prophetic prism maybe? And the other runs lotus petal and FoF. Is that right? If that is the case what are your arguements towards the 4 cards?
I recenetly built this deck and I am struggling between a few of the flex slots. I would like vekalken shackles as I have a less competative meta and we have a lot of decks like kalia and new selvala and derevi(The main match I need to try and improve my matchup in) Steel sabotage is a card I keep looking at aswell. Are there any under the radar cards that might actually be very good in a slightly less competative meta that were not mentioned? We have a lot of graveyard decks, boonweaver karador, a gitrog monster, derevi, kalia, new selvala, captain sisay, atraxa, breya. ect. Thanks in advance Sigi :)
June 16, 2017 2:47 p.m.
Your 100% dead on. I have to add BSZ & WB. Most of the time they go straight for veil, rarely do they hit the other combo pieces like rings etc. They just assume I am out of it after veil is gone, but every so often they will pick out stroke and Ballista. I most of the time keep a Laquatus In a sideboard as well depending on the pod.
June 17, 2017 9:01 a.m.
Azemotay: Neo's and my list are very close to each other - the only other difference is that I'm running Strip Mine while he isn't. Lotus Petal, Dispel, Prophetic Prism, and Fact or Fiction are all cards that are interchangeable depending on playstyle. I prefer a slightly more controlling and card advantage-heavy version of Teferi, so I like Fact or Fiction a lot. The list as a whole has been moving in that direction as of late, which is also why we've included Manifold Insights. Prophetic Prism and Lotus Petal both increase the deck's speed, and Dispel is basically the 11th best Counterspell we can run if we really need one more than the 10 we already have.
Regarding Lotus Petal, it's basically the super flex slot in my list. Whenever I have something I want to test, I toss it out and add that card instead. For instance, I'm currently testing Silent Arbiter to improve our Edric and Tana/Tymna matchup, and Lotus Petal was the card I took out for it (on a side note: Silent Arbiter is amazing against those decks, and will probably make its way into my main list very soon).
If you have trouble dealing with those decks and they don't go off on, say, Turn 3 regularly, trying out Ward of Bones or maybe even Portcullis might be worth a try. The issue with Portcullis , however, is that ETB effects still happen and its trigger can be responded to, so it won't actually bother Selvala all that much. Then again, with Cursed Totem and Torpor Orb, Teferi is already well-equipped to deal with (some aspects of) Selvala.
June 18, 2017 10:35 a.m.
One of my group has recently started playing a tuned zur list. I've decided to try and use this list against it as I love that you can go for fast combo or switch to stax if needed. However I think shackles would help stop zur. What would you recommend removing for it given your experience with the list?
June 20, 2017 4:52 p.m.
A2hley1989: If that person is on the Storm/Doomsday build of Zur, Zur only serves as a backup plan for the deck in case things go wrong - slotting in a card only to deal with the backup plan of one deck isn't worth it.
shiffster: What exactly do you need explained? It basically follows every step of the combo and checks whether you can or can't go infinite based on what your input.
June 21, 2017 1:10 p.m.
He generally tutors for necropotence and gift of immortality then goes for empyrial plate for commander damage. He doesn't play the doomsday list as no one in our group wants to play it. Most people have pretty casual decks and we have a 6-8 person pod. It's just this one guy that goes all in. Thanks for coming back to me!
June 21, 2017 7:27 p.m.
LabManiac_Sigi the script shuts down as soon as i put how much mana do you want to go for
June 22, 2017 4:52 a.m.
A2hley1989 So it's Voltron Zur. Shackles should probably work fine there, and if you need a second piece of specific hate (albeit one that can't really be tutored for), Gilded Drake can also work.
shiffster That's weird. I checked, and it works on all my devices. That being said, it will only work under Python 3 (the specific version I'm running is Python 3.5.1; the script won't work in Python 2.
June 22, 2017 9:19 a.m.
If my group doesn't play land hate should I consider Lotus Vale?
June 24, 2017 6:19 p.m.
Suppose it makes comboing easier, but also makes high tide worse.
I have been testing Vedalken shackles and Portcullis since I had such a creature heavy meta, it finally donned on me. Why wouldn't I just swap back to Ugin? Thoughts Sigi? I did kinda have trouble fitting them both into the deck. I believe I tried cutting Map since I do not have a tabernacle. but fitting shackles was really hard. It was between either Memory Jar or Dispel. I ended up cutting jar since it has been the least performing card in my deck for how often my board gets hated out. Any advice is always appreciated Sigi :)
Also since the decks are so similiar and I like to watch the world burn. I bought the few cards to try out your guys version of Keranos Stax. Hoping to see it played on the community stream today :D
June 24, 2017 7:22 p.m.
What do you think about cutting intuition? I've been playing Chain Veil teferi for over a year now as my main cEDH deck, and a friend of mine had also been on the deck for like six months, and we've both found that intuition just seems lackluster.
Also, why into the roil? I feel like there are definitely better cards that could take the slot.
June 28, 2017 7:30 p.m.
Love the overall decklist! Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Treasure Cruise going into the list?
June 28, 2017 10:34 p.m.
Intuition is basically any card in the deck if someone is about to win. You can tutor up say, 3 bounce spells, or a force + 2 counter spells. Or the answer and 2 random cards and pick a different opponent. It can also be exactly what ever card you want with proper piles to win. Say Transmute artifact + snapcaster mage + tezzeret. No matter what you get chainveil.
Also into the roil is an amazing bounce spell as it can target your own permanent as well. Can't tell you how many times I have paid for Mystic Ramora for 3 turns then bounced it on my upkeep and replayed it.
June 29, 2017 12:47 p.m.
Sorry for the late responses - the last couple of days have been pretty hectic.
shiffster: NEVER play Lotus Vale, even if people aren't running much land destruction in your Meta. You want Islands to make your High Tide better, and Lotus Vale makes you randomly vulnerable to a card like Beast Within even way before you combo off.
Azemotay: In creature-heavy Metas, using Ugin instead of JTMS is indeed that way to go. IIRC, neo and I said exactly that in our State of the Deck post we made a couple of months ago. Hope you're also gonna have a good time with the Keranos deck!
kyuuri117: Intuition, while not amazing, is sort of a necessary evil. The deck is built to provide an Intuition pile for almost any situation you can face, and Intuition having instant speed also plays a big role. I'm a fan of the card, but it definitely takes some experience to know when and how to use it. Regarding Into the Roil, which cards do you think would be better? Into the Roil is, from what I've seen, the 2-cmc nonland bounce spell with the best potential upside.
AragornS: Thanks! This deck doesn't get too many cards into its graveyard, which means we can't really support Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time simulanteously. On top of that, we're more interested in card selection than just raw card draw, so DTT is significantly better here.
July 3, 2017 9:47 a.m.
I'll chime in here and agree that Dig Through Time is barely playable with its high Delve cost. Adding in a second card that eats at the 'yard would conflict with the more powerful Digging that Dig Through Time offers.
In other news, I've been trying out Tangle Wire as an additional Stax piece and I haven't been spectacularly impressed with it.
Lastly, what are your thoughts on Consecrated Sphinx? I know it's a very vulnerable card and negates some of the benefits of going creatureless, but the payoff of it surviving is incredible, especially with all the draw 7's the deck currently runs. I have it in my deck, and IF (it's a big if) it survives the turn cycle I have never lost. Granted, my playstyle is more towards hard control, so I value more permanent card advantage pieces like Future Sight and the Sphinx. Are they slower? Definitely. But I like the long-term payout a little more since I am consistently the most controlling player at the table when I play.
July 5, 2017 11:47 a.m.
Tangle wire has consistently been an MVP for me. Get teferi down t3-4, untap, and play a tangle wire, and the games basically over.
Also, I use conc Sphinx in my build as one of the 3 creatures (aside from snapcaster and trinket mage). In cEDH, creature removal is at a minimum, and since teferi does run some lock pieces, the cEDH games can go longer than usual allowing the Sphinx to accrue value. Also, Sphinx with a twister, or twister effect, is lights out. Just draw half your deck.
July 5, 2017 9:55 p.m.
Sigi I really dig the deck a lot but I have some odd questions for you or well really just a few.
I have been trying to get into cEDH for a bit now and I wanted to know is this deck ok/good for someone new to cEDH? I am only looking to build one cedh deck and this one looks like one of the best to me.
How has the deck been fairing after the advent of the 4 color commanders?
July 6, 2017 3:51 p.m.
hii Sigi, i there any update to this deck? as foretold? any other new cards?
July 7, 2017 12:02 p.m.
Are Scavenger Grounds worth considering (probably in a strip mine slot) in a grave-centered meta (with decks like Flash-Hulk dominating my meta right now)?
July 10, 2017 4:28 p.m.
kyuuri117 I agree, since removal is so premium in cEDH it's easy to protect a Consecrated Sphinx and guarantee a win with the absurd amount of card advantage it accrues. It makes opponents think twice about casting their draw 7's since the Sphinx totally breaks the parity of those cards.
I've thought a lot about Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir in this deck as well. Besides having sweet foil art and for the obvious flavor win, I think his static sorcery-speed imposing ability is very, very powerful. It neuters Storm decks using Tendrils of Agony or Mind's Desire since they will be unable to resolve the Storm copies that make those cards so good and also provides protection for our turn when we are trying to combo off as well. I've had great success with it in my playgroup, as it allows me to win any counter-war I engage in while stopping my friend's Azami Storm deck cold. Mindbreak Trap also seems to be a decent inclusion since most combos, and their protection, will cause more than three spells to be cast by a single opponent. A free exile spell seems very powerful in cEDH and I'm personally curious why it doesn't see more play.
July 20, 2017 9:44 a.m.
Monobluemuffins I too wanted to have a cEDH deck that was relatively affordable. I started scouring the internet about a year ago and came across a Teferi Stax list. I saw the results it was putting up and recognized its inherent power and so I decided to jump in and get the missing pieces while Teferi, Temporal Archmage was only $2.99. It was a great grab for me, since I love mono-Blue control, and I love the fact that I need to only resolve The Chain Veil in order to win.
In my opinion, the must have cards for this deck are Teferi, Temporal Archmage, The Chain Veil, Mana Vault, Basalt Monolith, Grim Monolith, Mana Crypt, and Sol Ring. The rest of the deck can be lands, counterspells, card draw, and a couple of tutors. Hell, they can even be random cards from your trade-binder that support your play-style and play-group. I think that's approximately $160 total for the main pieces, so I think Teferi is one of the cheaper cEDH generals to invest in. $250.00 can go a long way in building this deck, and I think it might be a good idea to include budget lists for this deck as part of the Primer.
July 20, 2017 9:53 a.m.
I was made aware of Ertai's Meddling by a friend who also mains this deck in cEDH. The erata'd text on this card is busted and it should be an auto include in this list.
July 20, 2017 1:40 p.m.
July 20, 2017 2:02 p.m.
No. It exiles the original spell, and puts a copy on the stack. The key here is that it's a "copy" of the spell that gets the suspend counters, and that goes on the stack. The original spell gets exiled and stays exiled. And it doesn't have to successfully counter a spell to exile it, it just straight up exiles it, which means it exiles non-counterable spells such as abrupt decay and breaks through autumns veil. But if you exile a key combo piece, even if they get a copy of it back, once it's delt with it's gone forever. Especially screws with hermit Druid/necro ooze/boonweaver/protean hulk decks. It works just as well as delay for targeting counterspells, and is much more effective at stopping combo pieces, especially graveyard based combo pieces.
July 21, 2017 12:08 a.m.
kyuuri117 That is not how Ertai's Meddling works, it puts the actual card back on the stack with a copy effect on it.
Source: I went and asked in Judges Chat.
August 6, 2017 5:40 p.m.
Hey man, I think I'm ready to take the plunge into Teferi. I own literally 90 cards for this list, I can afford everything except tabernacle and time twister. Is this deck still competitive without those and if so, what substitutes do you think Are the best? Thanks
August 10, 2017 11:28 a.m.
Also quick question, the combo only requires 5 mana worth of rocks to tap , the veil, and Teferi able to -1 correct?
August 10, 2017 11:32 a.m.
benjameenbear7: I still really don't like Consecrated Sphinx for the same reasons that were presented in the Single Card Discussion segment of the Primer.Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is not a good fit for this deck. His cost of 2UUU is prohibitive enough that he doesn't come down early enough to stop those combos while also holding some kind of interaction to protect him. Furthermore, he does almost nothing against most graveyard-based decks, which have been very popular as of late.
Monobluemuffins: It's still a very strong deck that holds its own well against the 4-colour decks. It's unique playstyle and easy access to a two-card combo help a lot in that regard. Teferi is a good deck to learn cEDH on, but don't be discouraged if you lose a lot of games at first - it's one of the harder decks to pilot well. Once you do understand it though, it's a blast to play.
Shaykmp: Nope, none of the new cards are good enough to go into Teferi.
Rarian: If you see a lot of those graveyard-focused decks in your Meta, slotting in Scavenger Grounds over Strip Mine is definitely a good move.
kyuuri117: Ertai's Meddling isn't quite good enough for this deck. As someone else already pointed out, it puts the original copy of the spell back on the stack, and even if you compare it to a card like Delay, it's not good enough. The power of Delay is not just that it often renders some spells useless, but also that it gives the whole table three turn cycles to find an answer to a game-winning spell.
Mataogetrekt: Yes, the deck is still very much good and playable without those two cards. Just don't forget to swap Stroke of Genius for Blue Sun's Zenith. And yes, that is what you need to go off if you still have your Teferi at 5 Loyalty. 5 Mana from 3 permanents, Chain Veil, and the ability to use Teferi's -1.
August 14, 2017 10:03 a.m.
LabManiac_Sigi: I missed the Single-Card Discussion section of the Primer. I'll have to seriously evaluate Consecrated Sphinx and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and see if they're worthwhile. I think I can let Teferi go, but the Sphinx has been so incredibly dominant in any game it's been in that I don't think I'll let it go. I'll try to be objective about the decklist, since I want Teferi to be my cutthroat, dream-crushing cEDH deck.
August 14, 2017 11:52 a.m.
Please login to comment
|Date added||9 months|
|Last updated||5 days|
This deck is Commander / EDH legal.
|Tokens||Teferi, Jace, 1/1 Bird|
|Folders||Modify to Cheapen, Interesting , Top Tier, cEDH, deck ideas, Teferi, Decks, Things I like, Edh, Save, See all 57|
|Top rank||#10 on 2017-03-11|