- 3x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
- 1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
- 1x Notion Thief
- 2x Snapcaster Mage
- 3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
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That's at question that I've always asked myself hazphokksy, is there enough synergy for the deck (aka discard) for the deck or will I just be waiting too long for it. I'm not too sure what iteration of the deck list you saw, but I count 13 (with Sedraxis Specter). I'm just afraid that if I go further with the discard that I'll die to a one drop (which this deck sorta dies to, unless I have Lightning Bolt). I've even considered taken out remands for, but I'm not entirely sure about that.
so far with this deck I've faced with grixis delver, mono green stompy, and B/G infect. The delver matchup was about 50/50 (cause either i just had answers long enough for a tempo swing, or i died to a delver flipped) while the mono green deck was about 20/80 (died to Experiment One, Rancor, and Dryad Militant, as they all go underneath remand and all my discard if I'm on the draw, which this deck is considerably worst imo. Also Strangleroot Geist is troublesome if I don't get something like Grim Lavamancer or Tasigur, the Golden Fang, while Leatherback Baloth need terminates or I'm dead). With the new iteration of this deck, not sure how it is against infect, but with Kolaghan's Command should be easier.
This deck is probably good against control, or slower decks, but currently I don't have a deck to play against who is one.
Also the inclusion of Raven's Crime was one i had considered and originally it was in place of Syphon Life. Not sure what is better, or to put them both in, and take something else out. One is better topdeck then the other, being Syphon Life while the other is a tempo play. Also Murderous Cut, and Electrolyze were in the deck at one point.
May 18, 2015 6:08 a.m.
Whoops and also to answer your question, if I had enough. I feel like there is enough discard. Just wish Snapcaster Mage were not ridiculously expensive, Dack Fayden was modern legal, and Recoup legal as well.
May 18, 2015 6:11 a.m.
How would you feel about trading one angler and one lavamancer for Liliana of the Veiland two land for two more discard spells?
May 18, 2015 8:42 a.m.
would put her in, in a heartbeat, but she's so expensive XP
May 18, 2015 9:14 a.m.
Unless funding is an issue, maybe the funeral charm could be Inquisition of Kozilek?
May 18, 2015 1:42 p.m.
It was originally, 3 Thoughtseize and 3 Inquisition of Kozilek, but when I was getting things back from Tasigur, the Golden Fang i found that I got many useless spells late game such as Remand, Thoughtseize, and Inquisition of Kozilek. On the draw it's better, cause I don't lose to some one drop with 1 hp. At least if i get it back it's soft removal/pump/evasion. Going to test it out.
May 18, 2015 5:26 p.m.
Thanks, all thanks to you guys that this deck has improved.
May 18, 2015 10:33 p.m.
I made a similar list on accident
June 28, 2015 6:54 p.m.
I love the idea of Reforge the Soul nevadathestate, as one of the previous iterations had it recommended by one of my friends. I did put it in at some point, I think there were two of them it ok at first, but after awhile my opening hands would have reforge and there isn't a way to set up miracles in modern, unlike legacy where they have Sensei's Divining Top and Brainstorm. If it was in my hand, it was usually out of reach as most games I only had 4 lands on average and couldn't find the 5th land. Even if I did manage to get the 5th land and cast it, they would get the advantage first as I would spend my entire turn. If I don't have have one of the two enchantments out on the field it's a refueling for my enemy hand, and late in the game you are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage and probably will lose as a result to that. The baseline is that if it isn't miracled, it isn't worth it. Thanks though
July 2, 2015 6:04 p.m.
Don't worry about making something similar by accident hazphokksy as great minds think alike. Also nice twist on your deck.
July 2, 2015 6:09 p.m.
Dark Deal trust me, can become an opportune wincon on in it's own right.
July 2, 2015 10:53 p.m.
gleeson.token, Dark Deal is a great card for this deck. I would play it more, but I live in a very aggressive meta like burn, and mono green stompy etc. and their gameplan is to play as many cards as possible and by the time I hit 3 mana I'm usually already at 10-12 and they have maybe 1-2 cards on average. Against a more midrange/control meta I would definitely put it in. Thanks for the suggestion.
July 5, 2015 10:32 p.m.
July 6, 2015 2:38 a.m.
Hey! I made a deck very similar to this. I've been working on various incarnations, but my first was started out with Cephalids! (My original deck was before modern was a format! It used Megrim, Recoil and Cephalid Coliseum as its main cards, with some Psychatog activators/win condition cards. Mmm, the days of Odyssey.)
In any case, I have a Budget super fast B/R version on my profile that I came up with before I knew this website was a thing. (But to be fair, I think you saw the Burning Inquiry idea first... I was still in my B/U bounce combo world trying to make my old ideas modern.)
July 14, 2015 4:54 a.m.
July 15, 2015 2:10 a.m.
Only downside to Cephalid Coliseum is that it's legacy format these days :( .
July 15, 2015 10:15 a.m.
July 20, 2015 12:13 p.m.
July 21, 2015 2:43 a.m.
You know, if you have issues with Stompy, Master of the Feast could be a solid addition. Not only is he a fatty in the air for cheap, but he makes sure your foes have something for you to force them to discard in the first place.
July 24, 2015 2 a.m.
Interesting approach to Stompy,could be pretty viable but I guess some testing is needed before he can join the deck list. Thanks Buckminsterfullerene
July 25, 2015 1:29 a.m.
After some testing with it Master of the Feast is an okay inclusion and could replace Sedraxis Specter if you want, the 5/5 body is really nice against stompy, but then i went up against control and got destroyed because for some reason they always had the answer in hand when i played it. That could just be bad luck though.
July 30, 2015 3:07 p.m.
Just going to point out that with Day's Undoing, it exiles the Waste Not/Liliana's Caress triggers, making it really good at refilling your hand (which is fine), but not much else. The deck looks nice though, +1!
September 6, 2015 5:47 p.m.
Nevermind, I'm an idiot, I forgot this wasn't Nekusar with drawing, but rather discard. Please disregard me, but I still really like the deck :)
September 6, 2015 5:48 p.m.
September 6, 2015 5:56 p.m.
I love how modern is becoming more and more varied. I also love how they recently reprinted fetches and are bound to print the other half in the next 1 or 2 years that enables us to play more stuff.
Awesome deck. This is the first Grixis list that I can honestly see giving my Mardu deck trouble.
November 18, 2015 5:10 a.m.
Now that I've play tested I have some suggestions.
You either flood on lands or don't get enough. To remedy this I suggest Young Pyromancer. I know he "doesn't do what the rest of your deck is doing" but that's the point. Right now your deck can potentially durdle out hard. You may get an explosive play and then have nothing for a few turns. Young Pyromancer allows you to be proactive or defensive while you wait for the rest of your deck to do its thing.
Also this deck really wants Snapcaster Mage, and I say that after much careful consideration because I realize how much of an investment that is.
November 18, 2015 8:03 p.m.
sounds like a interesting idea kengiczar, This deck had Snapcaster Mage originally even though he does exactly what I wanted which was to flash back spells I was usually forced to play him early on turn 2 due to the aggressive meta that I had. However with the addition of more removal to the deck namely more Terminate and Kolaghan's Command it probably is a good idea to put them back in, but sadly i traded them away, and I still don't have my playset of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip.
the decks that I've faced are: mono-green stompy splashing red, grixis delver, souls sisters, infect, mono-black control.
Young Pyromancer also is an excellent suggestion that I tried in one of my earlier builds of this deck. Back then it was a delver deck, but after some testing it was more delver than waste not and was better off just being a delver deck which I didn't want. He would still fits in this deck with the 25 instants and Sorcery, it would be a fine inclusion. The hard part is where to fit him in and what to take out. I mean you could substitute 3x Sedraxis Specter for 3x Young Pyromancer
November 18, 2015 8:27 p.m.
You want 4x simian spirit guide.
Turn 1 - exile guide, play black cleave cliffs, play waste not and say go (99% of the time they can't remove it turn 1)Turn 2 - play land, Manamorphase getting U+R, use R for burning inquiry and let the chain work itself out. You can storm for 20 sometimes on turn two by doing this and just win with a grapeshot.
December 16, 2015 5:48 p.m.
That would be awesome mitchell.s89 if this was Waste Not storm. I wanted to try a different route, as I find storm to be a little..uninteractive. It's a brew in the making, and from what I know there are currently only 2 real ways to make use of Waste Not that's Waste Not storm and 8-rack. I guess you could say I'm trying to figure out a 3rd deck to use Waste Not as the win condition.
December 17, 2015 4:44 a.m.
Yeah, I'm all about them brews, but anytime I see waste not i immediately think of storm. I'm also lobbying to get simian spirit guide banned in modern lol. It's just a ridiculous card.
December 17, 2015 4:15 p.m.
yeah simian spirit guide is a fair card right mitchell.s89 free mana is so strong!!
December 17, 2015 10:59 p.m.
Acid_Drop, it was originally in the deck, and it worked quite nicely but I was dying to creatures too much cause at that I didn't have any removal for them. Eventually Kolaghan's Command replaced it cause of its utility. Great suggestion though, just waiting for kalitas, traitor to ghet to finish off the deck
January 15, 2016 2:14 p.m.
Sangromancer seems like a nice addition for a midrange style meta, that life gain seems pretty sweet
February 25, 2016 6:11 p.m.
shadowstun26, i think you're right in this day and age of meta. Lifegain seems way more important than card advantage. So I guess it'll take the place of Notion Thief until the meta slows down, if it ever slows down. good suggestion thanks
February 25, 2016 11:53 p.m.
You should strongly consider Rise/Fall. I Also have a Waste Not build minus the blue. If you check it out you might get some other ideas.
April 23, 2016 1:50 a.m.
This is an excellent addition, CaptSillva to the deck, the problem is what to cut and how many to put in probably 1 or 2. I'll have to test this out tys!
April 24, 2016 2:08 a.m.
just make rise/fall a fun-or, cut the nighthawks or a few mana leaks for em. Also, if you want check out my spin on the waste not grixis control deck, ive played this quite a bit locally to mixed results
April 24, 2016 3:42 p.m.
thank you shadowstun26 for the input, I'll try without the nighthawks and we'll see how we do
April 26, 2016 9:24 p.m.
June 26, 2016 1:58 a.m.
Whoops wasn't looking at the considered column sorry.
June 26, 2016 2 a.m.
At Nightdragon779, I considered a wheel effect in the deck a long time ago and tested it, but then i kept running into two problems. Consistency and speed, for something like Reforge the Soul which has miracle, I wish I could choose to cast it for its miracle cost. Sometimes I would miracle it on turn 2, before I could play a Waste Not and then I would be forced to wait and thus lose the miracle cost. There is no Brainstorm effects available in modern or else I would put it in.
With modern being a very fast format Wheel of Fate, and waiting 4 turns seems a bit much, as you might be dead by then. I also want to cascade into it with cards such as Demonic Dread or Violent Outburst but I can't hit it reliably as Waste Not is CC 2, and thus missing what we what to hit (Wheel of Fate).
Another wheel effect I think above somebody mentioned was Dark Deal. It curves out well, Waste Not into Dark Deal, but my opponents usually react first cause I used all my mana to cast dark deal, unless I'm playing the storm version. Which is another deck entirely, and not the focus of this deck.
However great suggestion, wheel effects, though very powerful in conjunction with Waste Not are just too slow for a competitive modern deck. This is where EDH shines, where the games go on much longer than 4 turns and where you get to do some awesome gimmicky things. For modern, for combo, unless it's excessively fast or very cost efficiency is hard to pass in order to beat those top decks. (The deck my friend plays is G/U infect, very unforgiving)
Keep the suggestions coming though, always interested in what the community can find to contribute the deck. :D
June 26, 2016 10:45 p.m.
I've been working on a similar deck to yours (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lilianas-burning-wheels/). The only exception is that my deck focus more on the concept of "forced looting".With the heavy discard suite that I bring my opponents usually don't have any cards in hand, turning [card]Waste Not[/card] and [card]Liliana's Caress[/card] into bad cards that do nothing. That's why I went in that new direction.
I like your innovation and eagerness to explore new decks! +1 for you!
PS. The new loot land looks might promising! I'll be grabbing two for my own deck. =)
July 21, 2016 12:10 a.m.
Louie, Thanks for the up vote. I like your vision of the "forced looting" style of deck. For non-storm Waste Not decks, i ran into the same issue that you did, if they are very fast decks that kill on turn 3 (like infect, burn, etc...) it makes it difficult to put down the Waste Not/Liliana's Caress without dying thus the dream of Dark Dealing them as you said on your first update on your fnm "Dark Deal has been somewhat lackluster". Thus I changed it to a heavy removal style of deck. From my experience, if you can grind the game you win (unless they have some cheeky infinite). I think the reason I took out the Liliana's Caress, was not because it wasn't a great card (it actually won me a lot of games, it was a ticking time bomb when you have multiple) it was due to the fact that I wanted to minimize the "useless on their own cards" to a minimum (like you mentioned you ran into those issues). Waste Not won over Liliana's Caress in the end, which is why it was taken out, and due to this change i valued Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip over Lore Broker and Snapcaster Mage. Snapcaster Mage was out because jace's activation cost 0 for mana, while i need 2 extra mana for snap (thus I can chain Burning Inquiry into more Burning Inquiry if I get lucky). Anyways, Thank you again for the encouragement.
PS: i think if you want the card to show it's picture like Notion Thief, all you have to do is (open square bracket)(open square bracket)(card you want)(close square bracket)(close square bracket) instead of the html style of [card][/card] (at least for comments). Here's the formatting guide if you need it http://tappedout.net/help-desk/formatting/ though i think you need a full account to do the niffty stuff (like change colour and all that)
July 21, 2016 4 a.m.
Yeah, the worst part is to topdeck bad or dead cards.
My take on the grinding part was to always be able to get my opponents to discard, and looting also helps with filtering the deck. I'm usually with one or two cards in my hand.
Baby Jace does seem powerful in our kinds of decks. I might try and get myself a couple of copies. I run Liliana of the Veil 'caus it's great repeatable discard and removal in one, but also I own them already (8rack <3). =P
Have you tried Asylum Visitor yet? It's great with Waste Not and Burning Inquiry since even if you're forced to discard it, you can still play it for it's madness cost (which, by the way, the mana from Waste Not can be used).
Lol, I used mtgsalvations formate by habit.
July 21, 2016 7:29 a.m.
Louie, I guess I could try Asylum Visitor, it couldn't hurt. However on turns of sheer power level, I'm not too sure if it can replace Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as then I wouldn't have any win cons (relying on the zombies from Waste Not isn't always guaranteed). This deck usually doesn't have too many problems when it comes to card advantage, the 4 Serum Visions and notion theif/Burning Inquiry combo, the recursion of Kolaghan's Command and the potential draw of Waste Not is usually more than enough to get me there. Still, I'll try a couple in there somewhere and see how we do. Thanks
July 21, 2016 11:35 a.m.
You say in the description that Notion Thief turns off Waste Not, but I fail to see how so. Notion Thief doesn't make your opponent immune to discard, so essentially your even looting effects, Burning Inquiry and Geier Reach Sanitarium, just turn into mass card advantage, with Burning Inquiry being one red for Draw 6, then you and your opponent discard 3 at random, and Geier Reach Sanitarium being two and tap, you draw two and you and your opponent discard a card. Not sure if I'm misunderstanding something here.
August 14, 2016 7:03 a.m.
Tys blargathan, I had to think about what I said. I should of been more specific on what I meant, the reason I said it "turned off" waste not was because I was referring to the zombie portion of waste not, not the draw. It was against that same mill deck so I was drawing way too many cards (which is helping mill do their job), and most of my power comes from the zombies from waste not. Because notion theif steals their draw of buring inquiry I could not produce any zombies because there was nothing to discard. I was essentially lacking power and that was the reason that I lost. I'll update the description to there shouldn't be any ambiguity.
August 14, 2016 8:10 a.m.
To blargathan,I forgot to mention he was top decking and on his turn playing anything he had. In doing so, I couldn't force him to DRAW and discard due to notion theif ability therefor making waste not useless.
August 14, 2016 8:35 a.m.
November 10, 2016 4:17 a.m.
Drcfan, true there isn't any sideboard hate for enchantments, but there is two problem. Grixis doesn't have cards that hit enchantments, the only thing it can do is counter them outright (I should know cause I built a grixis edh deck, and the only colored option was Chaos Warp which probably wouldn't do the trick) It has lots of artifact hate, but that because the colors support it. So the 2nd problem would be, I would need to go into one of the two other colors (green/white) to have any enchantment hate. 4 colors really is pushing the limit though of how much damage i can take from my lands, since this matchup is already bad against burn and other aggro decks I'm not sure if I can afford it. My sideboard is tuned against the matchups that are really not in my favor from my playgroup which plays dredge, soul sisters, naya burn, and jeskai control. Luckily for this deck, Burning Inquiry isn't stopped by card effects like Leyline of Sanctity as it never targets, but will stop the single target discard spells. Honestly i wish i could have enchantment hate, so i could deal with cards like Blood Moon, but i guess I'll just have to play more carefully. Thanks for the advice though, and to be honest I still don't know what my sideboard should consist of. I'm still working on it atm. Cheers! :D
November 10, 2016 1:46 p.m.
Grafdigger's Cage would be a better catch-all for the sideboard
December 23, 2016 6:36 a.m.
@Wurmlover, sounds like a good idea I'll give it a shot.
December 25, 2016 10:29 p.m.
first of all, great list. looks like a lot of fun.
Notion Thief seems like a bad choice though. So much of your gas comes from opponents discarding cards that while a sorcery that reads ": Target player discards three cards" seems good in theory, it doesn't help create zombies, draw cards, or create that sweet .
There are a couple other ideas that I think are worth trying, namely Murderous Cut and Dark Deal, and Dead Drop in the sideboard, but they're already on your "potential/tested" list (which by the way is the greatest thing I've ever seen in a deck description. Super helpful, and you even alphabetized it).
And of course the new Fatal Push is almost certainly worth it.
On a side note, why the Kommands? Incidental artifact hate stapled to Shock is nice, but you aren't running many creatures to buyback.
January 2, 2017 10:19 p.m.
@Serendipitous_Hummingbird, yeah I just like the card notion theif. It's good, but only in a control meta. I don't want to exclude it entirely, so I guess it'll just be moved into the sideboard for control.
I've tried Murderous Cut and though it is amazing, I think Fatal Push is basically better version (Fatal Push is definitely going in, it's the 1 mana answer like Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile I've been looking for, I mean it hits the large majority of creatures that are played in modern). I'm trying to think of deck where I would bring in Dead Drop as the only one I can think of is Boggles but they kill on turn 3. With this setup, I'm not sure unless I run cards like Thought Scour I would be able to get it before I die. I've tried Dark Deal (think I mentioned somewhere above, just control-f and search dark deal) and though there is a great amount of synergy, by turn 3 they've usually dumped their hand out and i maybe get a Mind Rot + adding some cards to their hands. It's better for the storm version, as this match-up is suppose to grind them out.
I realize now that I just put in the Kolaghan's Command as I love the versatility of the commands. Then I look at Collective Brutality and it's actually the modes that I want (discard, removal, life gain) so I'm switching them out and moving them to sideboard.
January 3, 2017 6:41 p.m.
Whispers of Emrakul might be a nice fit, seems like you could get delirium pretty easily.
January 25, 2017 1:03 p.m.
@Angry_Potatoes that's an interesting inclusion. I have to give it a shot, because the meta is slowing down, hopefully. Not too sure what to take out for it though.
February 2, 2017 1:09 a.m.
Hey man I just wanted to say I LOVE this deck. It is currently the reason I am getting into standard. Amazing work! Thank you!
March 7, 2017 2:28 a.m.
Thank you imsocool1234! Maybe one day, I'll take it to a GP or something and test it against the tier 1 and tier 2 decks as all I have to play test it against so far is really infect and bushwacker zoo. Still I'm glad you are playing more magic cause of innovative decks. Who knows maybe you'll be brew the next top tier deck. :)
March 7, 2017 2:56 a.m.
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|Date added||2 years|
|Last updated||4 days|
This deck is Modern legal.
|Tokens||2/2 Zombie, Jace|
|Folders||A Modern Brew, VERY NICE HOW MUCH, Untap, z---------Looks Interesting, deck ideas, The wasted twin , Other Decks of Interest, I applaude you, want!, stuff, See all 25|