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Contributions —Feb. 18, 2012
I'd love to continue discussion on this deck, so absolutely feel free to ask/suggest anything, but I would also like to take a moment to thank everyone who has helped me with this build. I might fail in listing all of your names, but without your suggestions I might have never thought to use the following cards both currently and previously in my 75:
Copperhorn Scout - I knew this card had some great and interesting interactions with other elves, but I feel bad for nay-saying her inclusion for so long. My eyes are now open. - MagnaLynx21, McChisel, others
Naturalize - I was relying on Acidic Slime and Karn Liberated for my non-creature permanent smashing, but I underestimated how badly I'd need cheap, instant removal. Naturalize is often preferable to trying to power an ooze out with a 6-mana Green Sun's Zenith, especially when GSZs have so many other uses. - ItsAshcanPete, others
Karn Liberated - Karn is my hero. Karn, Silver Golem was the first legendary creature I ever owned, so he deserved to be in the deck for old time's sake anyway. - cartwheelnurd, OrgasmAndTea, nostalgia
Other sources of inspiration: various Glissa Rock deck skeletons (which are all vastly different but got my brain thinking), Todd Anderson's SCG Open Richmond Mono-Green Aggro (some recent inspiration, mostly for sideboard ideas), Solomon's Elvés Accelerati (Mono-Green), and zandl's standard-elves-believe-it (if I had known the latter existed, it would have saved me a little work, haha).
Dozens of other suggestions have been made, including such things as Genesis Wave, Primeval Titan, Beast Within, etc., and I am always switching things out and playtesting. So if you think this deck is lacking some amazing card, please let me know! This is why I like this site so much!
Interesting design, with a lot of range that should hold you out for most of the game. However, I think maybe Coperhorn Scout should find a place in the sideboard for match ups when the Arches ability doesn't connect. The only other suggestion I could make is maybe one Overrun, just for those times where the big boys can end a game on a stale board when your opponent least expects it, or of course to get a Gideon or a Liliana out of the way. Asides from that, pretty strong looking build.
January 6, 2012 6:22 a.m.
Good call on Copperhorn Scout . I welcome her to the sideboard.
I'm throwing Overrun on the Maybeboard for now. I do plan on including it, but I want to use tonight's FNM to see which cards aren't carrying their weight, so I know what to switch out for it. Thanks for the suggestions!
January 6, 2012 11:46 a.m.
I really like this, but a suggestion would be to take out primeval titan, as you won't really need the land at that point. If you dont want to you can add some more of Ezuri, who is a lot like overrun if that's what you want. A good repacement for the titan is Karn liberated, because he can take out some of the opponent's most powerful things.
January 11, 2012 9:08 p.m.
thanks for catching my mistake! I originally had the Primeval Titan in there to fetch Ghost Quarter s to combat Wolf Run decks, but that started to seem silly when I already had two maindeck Acidic Slime . I forgot to axe the titan when I removed said lands. Appreciated!
January 12, 2012 midnight
Dungrove Elder, other than that it looks awesome! +1
January 14, 2012 3:11 a.m.
Dungrove Elder is certainly a possibility, especially as a card:Green Sun's Zenith target, but I'm going to hold off on it for now. My two issues with it in this deck are that I've only got 14 Forests, and most of my ramp mana is produced by creatures with the type "Elf Druid." I lack any speedy land drop cards like Rampant Growth or Primeval Titan to ratchet the Elder up quickly, instead opting to gun straight for casting Wurmcoil Engine s and Karn Liberated .
However, it's definitely in my mental Maybeboard. Dungrove Elder]] is solid.
January 15, 2012 1:40 a.m.
Karn is basically additional, reusable removal for me, and he's easy enough to play by mid-game, with ramp. He helps in getting rid of Mirran Crusader s and Sword of Feast and Famine , which run rampant in my store's meta, as well as clearing pesky Moorland Haunt s, Kessig Wolf Run s, and Inkmoth Nexus . While these are things Acidic Slime can also do (excepting killing Mirran Crusader), Karn just gets me additional versatility, along with a panic button if things aren't going according to plan. While he might have a place in the sideboard, he's versatile enough that I can see no reason not to maindeck him.
I shouldn't HAVE to use him, but if my other win conditions aren't able to do the job, I should think having Karn is a nice option to have.
January 15, 2012 10:50 p.m.
The thing is he would probably be removed before you could ever use his panic button. It would be another two turns after you drop him that you could use his ultimate. That's if you aren't using his -3 at all, and if nobody attacks him. I think more Garruk would be more suiting (Garruk Relentless Flip Flip so you don't run into problems with drawing another Garruk, Primal Hunter while one is still on the field).
January 15, 2012 11 p.m.
Garruk Relentless Flip Flip would be more appealing to me if he could do anything against multiple creatures with flying, or things like Mirran Crusader . That, and he's kind of fragile, and thus much easier to remove than Karn. Plus, I've already got other means of tutoring and Overrun ing in GSZ and Ezuri.
Karn Liberated can remove huge threats (titans, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite , other planeswalkers), and soak damage if I need him to (using his +4 rather than his -3 ability). It's never really my intent to have to use his ultimate, but I'm happy to threaten my opponent with it. I'd rather avoid long rounds, and I definitely don't want to be "that guy." But it is an (amusing) option!
January 15, 2012 11:11 p.m.
They get to choose the card they exile though don't they?
January 15, 2012 11:19 p.m.
The +4? Yeah. But it doesn't really matter, so long as I can -3 something the next turn, or continue to put pressure on them to come up with an answer before I run them out of cards/permanents. I really don't see any downsides to having a Karn on the field. There's always something to do.
January 15, 2012 11:28 p.m.
Also, you made a point earlier about using Garruk Relentless Flip Flip and Garruk, Primal Hunter at the same time. As they share the subtype Garruk, they couldn't both be in play at the same time, which is another reason I wasn't considering Relentless.
January 15, 2012 11:31 p.m.
Ahh, I didn't realize that worked like that. I've got nothing against Karn, I just think there's better options for this deck. Just my opinion, take it for what you will. I do like the standard elves though.
January 15, 2012 11:47 p.m.
Hey, all suggestions are appreciated! I like being able to talk my decisions out. I've only gotten to play this deck in one tournament so far, along with some casual play, so I've still got plenty of testing before I'll know for sure what my opinions on my planeswalkers are. Until then, thanks for your comments!
January 15, 2012 11:59 p.m.
umm you have black, so you could potentially swap a Liliana of the Veil in for karn, it would still work for removal, and it would help against hexproofs
January 16, 2012 9:21 p.m.
Liliana is a good option, for sure. She and Karn do similar things, attacking both cards in hand and permanents on the field. Oddly enough, because of the mana situation in this deck, 1BB and 7 are almost equally easy to cast, simply because green is more plentiful than double-black, what with all the G-producing elves running around.
I feel like it mostly comes down to personal preference. I'm personally not crazy about discarding my own cards when I'm trying to play out as many permanents as possible. Also: me and Karn go way back (I started playing during Urza block, and Karn, Silver Golem was my first legend), and I'd personally like to keep black as a splash here, but if anyone wanted to increase the amount of black in this deck, maybe add some of those handsome Grave Titan s, then Liliana would probably be the way to go.
January 16, 2012 9:32 p.m.
I do really like Karn, he's a game changer if its at a stale mate, and plus if your opponent is trying to remove him it gives you more time to get out your ramp/creatures. A card I would suggest looking at would be Genesis Wave , my friend runs it in his elf deck, and it is great, it pulls out all of your lands and permanents. It could get rid of something like a card:Green Sun's Zenith or a Go for the Throat , however thats only 6 cards, but it puts out everything else, which to me would is great for this type of deck.
January 16, 2012 11:36 p.m.
I would say though, not sure if you have this problem but you might have too many swamps? the only thing that use it are 1B to cast. also maybe Copperhorn Scout for extra ramp/pump.
January 16, 2012 11:38 p.m.
It might be better to trim a couple of swamps, but I think I've got plenty of leeway, since I have 8 elf druids and 18 lands that all produce plenty of green mana. Having 10 black mana sources just feels like nice security if I desperately need to Go for the Throat something, or pay the flashback cost of a sideboarded Sever the Bloodline (because bad cards are FUN!).
I'll keep testing how the deck runs. I may very well end up going -2 swamps, +2 forests or some zany nonbasic.
I tried a couple of Copperhorn Scout s for the deck's first FNM, and while their interaction with Elvish Archdruid , et al is definitely interesting, I usually found myself wishing I'd drawn something more independently powerful.
Genesis Wave is insanely strong, as long as it doesn't get countered (which definitely does happen, based on the times I've used it in other decks). But one can play around countermagic. I guess my biggest concern is that it's kind of a win-more card that only really explodes when I've already got an army of creatures and coffers full of mana. I can't see it doing TOO much if I'm being tightly controlled, even with plenty of lands in play.
I may try a couple of waves this week, just to see how it goes. I'm not sure what I'd take out for it, though. Two swamps? Haha, perhaps.
January 17, 2012 12:01 a.m.
I love the variety of the deck that combos very well. +1