A very different look at mill. I like it but it seems somewhat susceptible to fast early creatures. I will upvote it regardless cause denial seems to me a sweeter win than purely overwhelming ones opposition.
October 10, 2013 1:32 a.m.
I'd agree, and I'm predicting that to be my toughest matchup. I need to test against a bunch of the aggro meta. I'm essentially hoping that Thoughtseize + Far / Away will help me enough against aggro to let me stabilize and then control them with counters. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Nightveil Specter also have the opportunity to get me a few creatures to push back against aggro.
Thanks for the upvote and the feedback!
October 10, 2013 1:51 a.m.
I would offer one up one card that may help late game. Cyclonic Rift someone advised it to me. I was unsure but after extensive playtesting with it.. it has saved me many times late game putting EVERYTHING back into the other guys hand...Which may help you with a late draw of a thought seize.
October 10, 2013 1:57 a.m.
I think I'll sideboard that actually! I'd kind of forgotten about it, but a friend runs it in his U/W/R Control [Theros] deck, and it always seems to help him out.
October 10, 2013 2:10 a.m.
+1 for Dimir/Mill Id recommend more removal though creature heavy decks will overwhelm you eventually, check out mine Dimirritation (2nd place FNM!) maybe you can get some ideas from there, you play slightly different than I do, but our goals are the same.
October 10, 2013 2:25 a.m.
Your deck really needs either more creatures or more removal. Yes, the duress and thoughtseize are nice early on, but a couple of early creatures will just pummel you. Even something as simple as a couple of Doom Blade s could do wonders. Also, don't run Psychic Intrusion - at least not as a 4 of. It's a 5 mana sorcery that could potentially do very little for you. You need to smooth out the mana curve, atm your deck is entirely 1 mana, 5 mana, and (very heavily) 3 drops. Get some more specific counterpsells that cost 2 mana, they can make a big difference. Also, what's Daxos of Meletis doing on your sideboard? How exactly do you plan to cast him with no White mana? :/
Aside from that, in a control deck you generally want some way to get a card advantage. I've been struggling to find something to replace Think Twice , but take a look around and see what you like. Inspiration is a possibility, as is Underworld Connections - As I said, just playtest for what works.
October 10, 2013 2:45 a.m.
There is almost no way Psychic Intrusion is going to do little for me, since on turn 5 there is surely a decent number of cards in their graveyard, and I could take one from their hand. Daxos of Meletis is not in the sideboard, he's in the maybeboard. I originally was thinking of going B/U/W, but decided against it for now.
I agree though on the draw and removal. Draw is probably less important than removal right now, I haven't really had a problem with hand advantage since I'm cutting theirs down so much. The curve is certainly weird, but again, the plan with this deck is to cast their deck. It really does even out the curve a bit, though 2 is still a dead spot.
What would you suggest taking out for Doom Blade ?
October 10, 2013 10:33 a.m.
skeet70 I think you could take out all your duress and put x2 doom blade and x2 hero's downfall, it would stand stronger against creatures that way and you would still have 8 counters + 4 thoughtseize to deal with non-creature threats. I've just built a Milling deck very different from your, but you could look at it just to see how I balance my control Milling some Standard Corn
October 10, 2013 11:39 a.m.
I really want some people to try playtesting this before suggestions :D. I've been testing it against aggro decks today and while it's my weakest matchup so far, I've won at least half the time. Every time I've tried it against control or midrange it does extremely well.
Cappadocius thanks for the feedback, I'll take a look at your deck.
October 10, 2013 11:49 a.m.
I was just wondering about some other thing, you should put something in your sideboard to enter in the place of your 4x Nightveil Specter if you are not playing against U or B, since you won't have the mana to cast the spells and a mill of one ain't really useful. Maybe some Omenspeaker , or more creature removal. There's some people talking about using Hover Barrier , it might do well in it's place.
October 10, 2013 12:28 p.m.
You steal their mana :D. When I played against my aggro that's what happened. With Specter I ended up stealing a Stomping Ground and Forest , then played a Burning-Tree Emissary into a Far / Away . Then used Ashiok to play it's Stormbreath Dragon for the win haha.
October 10, 2013 12:44 p.m.
It had never ocurred me that you could play their mana with the Nightveil Specter , that's just beautiful, hahaha. Does it still count for your max drop of one land per turn?
October 11, 2013 10:24 a.m.
Cappadocius yeah, it does count towards your limit, but that usually fine after you've dropped your third land. You just leave those three back to threaten counter/sac, then swing and see if you hit a land to play before playing your own. So much fun, I love the Specter haha.
October 11, 2013 2:16 p.m.
I agree with GoatTower regarding Psychic Intrusion , cut them down to 2, so you can add Cyclonic Rift or Hero's Downfall in their place.Psychic Intrusion is great card but is to expensive to cast on turn 5 and also get something that is worth tapping out turn 5, most times you would want to cast it after you got Jace, Memory Adept out and milled for 10, so you go for turn 6 in order to cast the exiled card at turn 7 or even later, by running 4 copies you will be stacked a lot of times with 2 dead cards in your hand from your opening hand.
Good deck though with a lot of potential and i really love seeing Nightveil Specter and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver hitting the opponent with his threat, i run a deck with both of them, though with a completely different wincons, and i really love them.
October 21, 2013 2:12 p.m.
nazrul and GoatTower after running this in a few tournaments, I think I agree. Psychic Intrusion is almost always an awesome draw, but it does come up early too often. It's a much better late game card, though it can come in handy pulling T5 or T6 planeswalkers out of their hands. The nice thing about it in that sense, is you generally already know if they have a worthwhile bomb in hand because of all the Duress and Thoughtseize .
October 21, 2013 3:22 p.m.
Thanks everyone for the +1's and comments!
October 21, 2013 4:13 p.m.
Question regarding Nightveil Specter mechanics. I have been wanting to build a control deck similar to this. I am wondering, the specific card mechanics on Psychic Intrusion speaks to casting. With the Nightveil Specter , does his ability require casting or is it implied that you basically grab the card and put it in play without spending mana to cast?
October 25, 2013 10:42 a.m.
The official rules on casting a spell state:
"Playing a card" means playing that card as a land or casting that card as a spell, whichever is appropriate.
So with Nightveil Specter you can play any card that is exiled. Playing a land is as simple as putting it into play (still counts towards your limit of one per turn). Playing a spell is the same as casting it, which would require you to pay the mana cost as well as any other casting costs the spell may have.
With Psychic Intrusion, you can only cast an exiled spell, which means that you cannot play lands. However, you can essentially cast the exiled spell for what amounts to it's converted mana cost in colorless mana.
October 25, 2013 2:41 p.m.
@MillhouseDimir Thanks for the explanation. So it's as I thought. You'd have to ramp up on the opponents lands to play the Specter's ability. But Intrusion just makes it easier.
Cool that makes the thought of how to construct the deck that much easier!!!
October 26, 2013 2:24 a.m.
What do you think of Pilfered Plans , Duskmantle Guildmage and Sanguine Bond ? Sanguine Bond would really only work with Crypt Incursion , so I suppose it's not that helpful. Pilfered Plans is probably the most useful as it can provide card advantage until you play a Jace, Memory Adept (but then again you'll probably only be using Jace's 0 ability, so then it would be your only card advantage). Finally, Duskmantle Guildmage , though not as helpful, can be brutal when it's first ability is activated when milling using Jace.
October 30, 2013 2:28 p.m.
I've thought about Pilfered Plans but honestly, it's not worth the slot. I've usually got plenty of hand advantage just from hand disruption, and I can hold my own cards back to play theirs.
Duskmantle Guildmage could be great with Jace, but this deck is purely mill, and pretty damn good at it ;). Diluting the mill aspect to add in damage wouldn't work very well, which is the same reason I don't run Consuming Aberration .
I like your thoughts though, they're definitely on point, those were all things I considered at some point or another with this deck.
October 31, 2013 1:20 a.m.
both AEtherize and Cyclonic Rift synergize quite well with Ashiok's ultimate. i run a grixis deck, and i use rift during my opponent's end step, then i throw out Sire Of Insanity on my turn. i find that combination to be a game ender every time. obviously you dont have access to sire, but ashiok works equally as well. if you have the time with Jace, Memory Adept his ultimate also synergizes well with Ashiok. -7 him to give your opponent 20 cards, then take em away with ashiok's -10.
November 2, 2013 2:30 a.m.
November 3, 2013 2:37 p.m.
no problem! i really like where this deck is going! Good luck with it
November 3, 2013 3:15 p.m.
I took this deck (made a couple of changes) to a GPT on the Isle of White and it didn't do to bad even though most of the games I played ended up be against it's weak decks. I really enjoyed it and had some of the best games of magic I've ever played.
The changes I made were instead of 4 memory adepts I had 3 and one Architect of Thought, instead of Psychic Intrusion I put in 2 Reap Intellect (which was amazing) and instead of 4 dissolves I ran 2 Hero's downfall and 2 doom blades (only because I didn't have another 2 downfalls).
I found this deck works well against the Hexproof deck as long as you start with a Thoughtseize in hand. Far/Away was the hero for me though overall!
April 7, 2014 1:57 p.m.
Thanks for the report, I'm glad you enjoyed playing it!
April 7, 2014 10:43 p.m.
Are you ever going to update this deck with M15 cards like Waste Not?
August 7, 2014 11:03 a.m.
August 11, 2014 11:32 a.m.
Unfortunately I don't think cards like Waste Not or Liliana Vess would really work. Despite the 8x discard spells, the deck isn't really built around discard. At it's heart it's a control deck, and it could probably stand to lose the Duress in favor of something like Ulcerate or Hero's Downfall . Liliana would only be useful for her -2 ability, and that wouldn't really be worth 5 mana and a card slot.
Thanks for the comments though guys, and I'll still probably test out your suggestions, because I never really know until I see things in action.
August 15, 2014 12:28 p.m.
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|Date added||4 years|
|Last updated||3 years|
This deck is Standard legal.
|Folders||Standard, get, Ashiok the Ripper, maybe decks, Decks , Dimir, Standard, Favorites, standard good decks, UB Ripper, See all 19|
|Top rank||#37 on 2013-10-28|